Here is a special treat, it's an IM session I had with a friend of mine. I've removed his name but you can still read it and see what you think. This is the general feeling of anyone involved in Christianity, I myself laugh at them. darksidZz: I was interested in knowing why you think Christianity is really valuable, and if it has only philosphical meaning or was really based on events that transpired. My Friend: To me it is valuable... you see.... My Friend: It is different for believers My Friend: When I didn't care about it I didn't understand darksidZz: So by caring you understand, doesn't this mean it's only value is to those who care? My Friend: But after to you start to get involved you can actually feel gods presence and hear and see him in your life My Friend: more like you are blinded before and can see after darksidZz: Perhaps what you feel is not gods presence but that of the believers around you My Friend: It isn't like that... when all alone My Friend: If you feel you can't mistake it darksidZz: Psychologically thought you feel as though god is with you, and so you sense it to be fact, when indeed it's not darksidZz: That's silly IMO My Friend: How do you know for fact that he isn't? My Friend: You can't prove religion right or wrong so it is still a possiblity darksidZz: Because god is a construct of human thought My Friend: But we don't have proof of this darksidZz: That statement holds no meaning, god does not get proven right ever, and by arguing against it this doesn't mean I must prove something My Friend: Have you ever read the bible to determine for yourself if it is worth studing? darksidZz: I've read that dribble, it has no value outside those who hold to fantasy darksidZz: Stories nothing more darksidZz: What makes you think you are correct darksidZz: Religion has no real meaning My Friend: well, My Friend: what is our reason for being here? darksidZz: Why are there so many different sects of Christianity My Friend: I don't beleive in any of the secs My Friend: or divisions My Friend: I believe what I read out of the bible and that is all My Friend: only about 5% of believers that goto church are likely going to heaven darksidZz: The reason for being here is that if we were not then we'd be somewhere else, through randomness there must be that 1 chance where life will be made, but this is not to say it wouldn't have appeared elsewhere My Friend: Lets go through a couple questions scientifically only darksidZz: Science follows the scientific method My Friend: if that is the reason for being why does life exist at all? darksidZz: We can speak in theory darksidZz: If there are 100 universes, somewhere, by accident, life will develop. That life will grow and become smart, but just because it happened to form doesn't mean it's been placed there. My Friend: even if there was no life anywhere why would planets exist? why would things exist at all? darksidZz: Why has the bible been so cut up through history, only to have parts taken out darksidZz: So you can't pass that question and cling to fantasy darksidZz: :C darksidZz: I assure you god does not exist darksidZz: but putting that aside My Friend: What created the universe? darksidZz: What of the parts taken out of the bible darksidZz: You know they've banned parts of it darksidZz: so what truth is there when men manipulate it My Friend: Those were written after Christ and should be added darksidZz: The hebrew texts are the only ones that have truth IMO. They've been hand copied over and over, never changing a single thing My Friend: The bible today is based on the original Greek,Hebrew and Aramaic scripts My Friend: and is accurate darksidZz: Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! My Friend: What created the universe? darksidZz: Female is walking by darksidZz: She straightened her hair darksidZz: grr My Friend: Im wondering what science thinks of this,, My Friend: What created the universe? My Friend: Lets assume the big bang created the universe... where did the particals that collided to create the big bang come from My Friend: you see science begins at were we have tangable objects existing in the universe but there must have been a begginning in order for it all to connect darksidZz: Are you saying an entity like god doesn't need to be composed of particles or mass? If so then how can it actually exist considering anything that exists is energy or matter. My Friend: You are still thinking on a physical plain that we are living in now... if there was a God that created the universe we have to assume he isn't bound by it darksidZz: What makes you think this Jesus wasn't some sort of alien. You know there are those claiming abductions today from another species. And Jesus is said to have been born in a virgin... why isn't that more plausible? My Friend: The only way I can disproove that is by qouting scripture... but you have to assume the bible is truth for you to believe it darksidZz: Well, if we accept your argument that he's not bound by the universe if he created it, that still leaves the question... anything that exists is composed of energy or matter, if it's not then it doesn't exist. My Friend: what is anti-matter?
My Friend: But we don't have proof of this We don't have proof that God exists either, and faith only goes so far without some solid evidence, IMO. My Friend: If you feel you can't mistake it I feel, therefore I am??? I had a discussion similar to this with one of my cousin's at Xmas. She said that whenever she reads the bible and goes to church, she feels much better. I have that same feeling when I'm out with my friends and family. It's called a 'sense of belonging'. Humans are social animals. They need a sense of belonging and something to believe in. Why do you think gangs exist? Because of all the people who society has outcasted. They have nowhere to go and gangs gave them that feeling of belonging, just like Christianity and other religions do. My Friend: The bible today is based on the original Greek,Hebrew and Aramaic scripts Just like some movies are 'based' on a true story. My Friend: only about 5% of believers that goto church are likely going to heaven Should that actually be true: A prime example of God's supposed forgiveness and mercifulness. And here I was under the delusion that if you believed, and had faith, you would go to heaven. What was I thinking???? My Friend: what is our reason for being here? Hmmm...since he's the faithful that knows the bible, shouldn't he be answering that question instead of asking it? My Friend: What created the universe? Good question. Something did. But since the bible offers virtually NO scientific material/evidence/knowledge, we'll keep asking that question and wondering. My Friend: You are still thinking on a physical plain that we are living in now... if there was a God that created the universe we have to assume he isn't bound by it Assuming he exists, then no, he may not be bound by this universe's laws of physics, but there most certainly has to be a set of rules even he has to follow, which the bible neglects to mention. "He cannot lie" has been mentioned several times. If he cannot lie, then he is, in fact, bound by at least one rule/law, and is therefore NOT omnipotent. My Friend: what is anti-matter? Jesus H. Christ, are you kidding me? I'm not even going to touch that one. Christian blissful ignorance at its finest.
Friend: "I'm happy and content with my faith and beliefs. Are you happy and content with yours?" DarksidZz: "Well, I'm ....ahhh, ....I mean, ....well, I, ...ahhhh, ....?" Baron Max
Friend: "I'm happy and content with my faith and beliefs. Are you happy and content with yours?" Just like the Muslim extremists are happy and content with their faith and beliefs. Just like the Buddhists are happy and content with their beliefs. Just like the Pagans are happy with their beliefs. It goes on. Just like I'm happy with knowing that shit happens beyond our control and accepting the fact that that's how life works, unfortunately, rather than drive myself crazy, like I used to, with worrying about whether or not God will answer my prayer (like the bible says he does...whatever), and why he didn't if he doesn't answer them.
Your friends sounds well intentioned yet...intoxicated You sound billgerent darksidZz. Is he really a friend or just an associate. You sound as though you could take em or her or leave'm
you call this person a friend, and you lead him on so you can post the contents of your im (private) on sciforums? that's real good. ruthless.
If you're being sarcastic, disregard, but if you're serious: Why is it that whenever a non-Christian questions the bible or Christian beliefs, you accuse them of being beligerent? You did the same thing with me in the Bible Contradictions forum, accusing me of being harsh and bitter when I was questioning similar things? Christians are just as beligerent when the tables are turned, you all just seem to do it in a calmer, more tactful way. Even if it's under a guise, it's still beligerence. If the bible and Christianity cannot be questioned, then there is no hope for any of us. Most dictators in the world don't allow their beliefs/policies to be questioned either.
question the bible doesn' make them them beligerent (sorry for that spelling error) It's the approach. Which sems to always be an attack posture. Wheres the respect. He said friends. I don't see that he respects this persons opinion. They're playing tag with each other and it's like watching one person get carried away. Why does it always have to be an interrogation...
Baron Max you ****er Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I require more comments on this matter :C
Aren't interrogations a fancy word for questioning? I do understand the approach; as I told you that I will curb the swearing. But, does that mean we always have to be disgustingly nice, tactful and brown-nosey to get answers? I think the beligerence and approach you mention may stem from not getting solid answers sometimes. I know it frustrates the crap out of me when I ask a Christian a question I want a rational answer to and I get answered something to the effect of, "have faith. read the bible. it has all the answers." stuff like that. On the other hand, your answer in the other thread about what hell really is, is the type of answers that I love to hear. I eat that stuff up. One minister I talked to a while back blew my mind with an answer he gave me about why can't God just put Satan down and get it over with. He told me that we are on a time loop (meaning time is circular and not linear) and that he had already defeated Satan. It sounds senseless but the way he explained it just absolutely fascinated me. I really wish I could recall the whole explanation. Sorry for the long tangient. But yeah, I didnt' mean to sound accusatory, I was just wanting to get the facts straight. If any of my statements come across as harsh, I don't mean them that way. Unless every other word is a swear word. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Although I wouldn't post a private IM convo on a forum, from what I read of the conversation, it just seemed like a normal faith vs. non faith dialogue. But any person that does IMing, knows that the whole conversation comprised of what each person says, becomes both person's property. Example, if I sent you an nasty email, everything I wrote to you then belongs to you and you have the right to do with it as you please, including posting it.
Interogative is a fancy word for questions Interogations are far from pleasant or fancy. But no in order to answer a question it doesn't have to be brown nose event. I am frequently told on this site that I'm percieved as arrogant and rude. That's a matter of perception. If I'm out for the truth on the matter I don't attack the person. I will however give a frank yet factual relation of how an opponent is coming across. I expect the same treatment. Factual and detailed. But I will wiegh your opinion according to your works and honesty. It is senseless. That wasn't answer. That being said I know what he's talking about he just reversed the pov. From god's perspective he's one this battle. It's not our time that is circular. None of this has happened before. But God himself is circular and his existence is well out side the constraints of time or reality. As a result he knows the future the past and every point in bwtween if he wishes to....So in that respect this preacher is right...but he's wrong to say we've been through this before...for surely God wouldn't put the death of his son on a torture stake on a continuous loop...it's...grusome. God is offering that balance for once and all time...not to repeat again.
I do not perceive you as that, even when we were having our disagreement. It's cool. I think we would still be having a heated argument if we were both rude and arrogant. Now that you said that, he did say that God is on a time loop, not us. But like I said, I wish I could rehash it verbatim. It was very interesting. I could very well see the universe(s) being on a circular time scale. However, yes, the time we spend in our mortal lives is linear. Hypotheses like that pique my interest because it brushes up on the same issues as theories of parallel universes and the string theory and stuff like that. That spawns one of the problems I have with the bible/Christianity. It offers NO scientific explanations about anything, just riddles (much like mythical stories) to confuse people. Example, parting of the 'Red Sea'. The bible says God parted the waters. No, an earthquake followed by a tsunami 'parted' the waters. Now, if god exists, maybe he knew that it was going to happen and told Moses to get his rear moving before it happened. I mean yeah it makes sense to have myth type stories for humans back then, because they couldn't explain it scientifically. I mean, for the longest time the Sun was thought to rotate around the Earth and that the Earth was flat.
