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Thread: OOPAs - Out of Place Artifacts

  1. #1

    OOPAs - Out of Place Artifacts

    Skinwalker advised he will respond to explain all out of place artifacts discovered. Take your time Skinwalker, this place is not very busy.

    Start with the Baghdad Battery:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_battery

    To me, even if the builder did not know about electricity, they exceeded in other supplimentary areas of knowledge than we generally attribute to them.

    More to come.

  2. #2
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

    Not really an OOPA anymore since the machining and details of it are publically accepted. The Greeks had mechanical abilities equal to renaissance Europe. None the less it has given weight to arguments against the skepticism surrounding a lot of inventions by Archimedes.

    I want to know from you however, Skin, Heliocentric views in it's construction? Perhaps much like people often denying evolution today, many Greek's foolishly going along with Geocentric views, with the smart people shaking their heads and carrying on(and advancing) side-line style with a helio-centric view.

  3. #3
    The infamous "Baghdad battery," a clay pot dating to around the 3rd century CE and found in Iraq. Often referred to as a "battery" by significance-junkies and mystery-mongers, it obviously isn't since there were no electrical devices present in the early first millennium for which a battery would be required. But, of course, this is exactly the sort of thing the significance-junkie looks for. Suddenly, an innocuous clay pot becomes part of a grand conspiracy to which archaeologists are willing accomplices in a cover up. Ignored are the more probable explanations for such jars, one of which includes that vessels of this type were for scroll or papyrus storage. They were typically 5 inches long and contained a rolled up copper sheet and an iron rod. The ends were capped with asphalt plugs, which would have interfered with the conduction of electricity.

    They would, however, have been very efficient at hermetically sealing papyrus and, since each of the "batteries" found to date have were found open to the environment while in situ, any papyrus inside would have long since deteriorated, leaving a slightly acidic residue. Experiments testing the "battery" hypothesis yielded about 25mW from one of these tested as a possible galvanic cell. A penlight requires about 1100mW. Tests were conducted since a couple of electricity-related hypotheses exist regarding the purpose of these jars: a way for electroplating metals such as gold or elektrum; and for ritualistic use by some "magical" means by a sorcerer who used a weak acid in the vessel and attached it to metal statue. Touched by believers, they would then feel a tingle, verifying his "power." The former suggestion of electroplating has fallen out of favor, however, since gilding metal by fire using mercury is far more effective. Very little gilding was able to be procured from models of the "batteries" which only produced a very weak current.

  4. #4
    So just an alchemical fluke? Comon, even if they passed it off as hocus-pocus, it's still impressive considering the timeline(200BC- 200 AD). Also other "batteries" have been found...where several objects(some dated 2000bc) with traces of electroplated precious metals have been found at different locations. There are several anomalous finds from other regions, which suggests use of electricity(or whatever they called it) on a grander scale.

    http://www.world-mysteries.com/bat1a.jpg

  5. #5
    They're most likely storage for papyrus & scrolls. It was common practice to store you papyri in clay vessels. It was common practice to have copper and iron rods in the center to scroll them. There is no evidence of the need for electricity since there are no electrical devices invented at that point. Nor is there any evidence of technology that rises to the level of needing electricity. Nor is there evidence that the "batteries" (should an attempt be made to use them as such) could generate current sufficient to do anything with, perhaps not even electroplating of metals (this level of metallurgy was achieved by then).

  6. #6
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorchester_Pot

    Would be interesting, except it got LOST by a museum(a common theme with this stuff - big culprit usually = Smithsonian)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker View Post
    They're most likely storage for papyrus & scrolls. It was common practice to store you papyri in clay vessels. It was common practice to have copper and iron rods in the center to scroll them. There is no evidence of the need for electricity since there are no electrical devices invented at that point. Nor is there any evidence of technology that rises to the level of needing electricity. Nor is there evidence that the "batteries" (should an attempt be made to use them as such) could generate current sufficient to do anything with, perhaps not even electroplating of metals (this level of metallurgy was achieved by then).
    German archaeologist , Dr Wilhelm Konig also found copper vases plated with silver in the Baghdad Museum, excavated from Sumerian sites in southern Iraq, dating back to at least 2500 BCE. When the vases were lightly tapped, a blue patina or film separated from the surface, which is characteristic of silver electroplated onto copper base. It would appear then that the Parthians inherited their batteries from one of the earliest known civilizations.

    I guess Konig is a flake too?

  8. #8
    I hate to be the one to say it, but this is one that neither of us can really comment on unless other data is available. It could be a genuine enigma. Or it could be a complete hoax (which was a popular thing in the 19th century). It isn't available for examination. Undoubtedly, significance-junkies and mystery-mongers would see this as some sort of evidence in and of itself, for its legitimacy, but the fact is that it is just as likely to be evidence for its illegitimacy -it may have been removed from "circulation" in order to prevent its true nature from being discovered and thus creating a scandal of a hoax.

    Therefore, I move that we stick to objects that have tangible and testable qualities. Anecdotal accounts of OOPAs would serve no purpose for either of us.

  9. #9
    Ok but I will list "lost" "reported" OOPAs and whom may have lost them, just for the record and no argument.

  10. #10
    Notice Skin says "perhaps not even electroplating of metals," nice try Skin.

  11. #11
    How about the Antikythera Device?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nietzschefan View Post
    German archaeologist , Dr Wilhelm Konig also found copper vases plated with silver in the Baghdad Museum, excavated from Sumerian sites in southern Iraq, dating back to at least 2500 BCE. When the vases were lightly tapped, a blue patina or film separated from the surface, which is characteristic of silver electroplated onto copper base. It would appear then that the Parthians inherited their batteries from one of the earliest known civilizations.

    I guess Konig is a flake too?
    You're making quite a jump from a clay vessel dating to around the 3 century CE to a culture dating to around 3500-2300 BCE. Surely you aren't connecting these. The Koenig reference is usually cited to a Charles Berlitz novel (he, of course published his works as "fact"). I'm not even sure this guy really exists, but the Berlitz reference was to a 2000 year old vase if I'm not mistaken. No mention of the vases provenience is made nor of the published works where it can be evaluated. If the Sumerians were electroplating, they may have used a process that ionized metal, but this was a chemical process and not one of electrical technology that they understood as such.

    I have several references on my desk about Sumeria. I'll browse them and see if there's any mention of electroplated goods.

    For now, however, I'm off to a class.

  13. #13

  14. #14
    Lost:
    Dropa Stones:
    the two stone discs "vanished", according to Professor Wang Zhijun, the Director of the Banpo-Museum in March of 1994

    I have other lost finds - but they are not OOPAs so I leave them for another discussion.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker View Post
    You're making quite a jump from a clay vessel dating to around the 3 century CE to a culture dating to around 3500-2300 BCE. Surely you aren't connecting these. The Koenig reference is usually cited to a Charles Berlitz novel (he, of course published his works as "fact"). I'm not even sure this guy really exists, but the Berlitz reference was to a 2000 year old vase if I'm not mistaken. No mention of the vases provenience is made nor of the published works where it can be evaluated. If the Sumerians were electroplating, they may have used a process that ionized metal, but this was a chemical process and not one of electrical technology that they understood as such.

    I have several references on my desk about Sumeria. I'll browse them and see if there's any mention of electroplated goods.

    For now, however, I'm off to a class.
    I thought Koenig was in charge of the Baghdad museum and he was examining other vases(not official "batteries") finding the evidence of electroplating. These were not necessarily batteries, but "electroplated" vases dating to Sumerian times. Conclusion, the Batteries are inherited technology from earlier times(yes Sumerian or earlier).

  16. #16
    Good point nietz, maybe Skin will learn that in class today.

  17. #17
    Well I envy him, I wish I was able to go back to school(maybe I'll win the lottery). I am not picking a fight with him here IAC, I am trying to have an honest discussion. Though one is able to learn a great deal on one's own means, discussion is probably the best things University has to offer. My only problem with modern universities, is that they seem to make everybody think the same way and it takes a real rebel to challenge mainstream thinking, even when it is necessary.

    I honestly am listening to him debunking this stuff and hold an open mind to "conventional" explainations. However I do differ in that I think these things have a much larger impact than mainstreamers will awknowledge.

    I want to move the thread towards discussion on to the Antikythera Device, however I will wait till the battery topic is exhausted.

  18. #18
    Google Maui's Tanawa as well, fascinating.

    Have you heard of the little bitty diorite (very hard) vase from Egypt that was somehow hollowed out? Amazing.

  19. #19
    Did not know about that one(the calculator), but i'm going to go along with Skinwalker on this one and only talk about physical objects we actually have. If we talked about all the odd hieroglyphics, this would go for 20 pages.

  20. #20
    Registered Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by nietzschefan View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorchester_Pot

    Would be interesting, except it got LOST by a museum(a common theme with this stuff - big culprit usually = Smithsonian)
    You may or may not believe in conspiracy theories, but a lot of people who would disappear things like this are just jerks to begin with. It's like a genetic disease.

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