Muslim Influences in Judaism

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by S.A.M., Mar 30, 2007.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I'm still new to this forum concept so if I've misunderstood, please move this thread to Religion.


    Muslim influence can sometimes be found far from Arabia. The first book of Eastern European Hasidism, Toledot Yaakov Yosef by Rabbi Yaakov Yosef of Polnoye, disciple of the Baal Shem Tov (1780) twice includes the saying: “The wise man has said: You have returned from the minor war, now prepare yourselves for the major war”. That is, prepare for spiritual struggle which is more important than any material struggle.

    This is a well-known Sufi saying, usually attributed to Muhammad. It probably found its way into Hasidic tradition through its appearance in Rabbenu Bachya’s Duties of the Heart. Rabbenu Bachya included many Sufi teachings and stories in his work, ascribing them to anonymous sages.

    The boundaries between Judaism and Islam were not rigid in early times. There were Jewish converts to Islam. Muslim sources also mention a Jewish movement which accepted Muhammad as a prophet and the Quran as scripture. These Jews were still not Muslims since they did not consider themselves bound by the obligations of Islam (such as praying 5 times a day or making the pilgrimage to Mecca). The fact that, with the spread of Islam, Arabic became the language of the Middle East, North Africa and Spain, including the Jews of those countries, facilitated cultural cross-influences. For several centuries, most Jewish writing in those regions, both secular and religious, was in Arabic (though it was Jewish Arabic, written in Hebrew letters), and was strongly influenced by Muslim culture which was responsible for the spreading of the Arabic language.

    e.g. There was a tradition of Jewish thought which arose in a Muslim milieu and expressed itself principally in Judaeo-Arabic writings. Today this tradition usually goes under the name of medieval Jewish philosophy. Its representatives include Saadya Gaon, Bachya ibn Pakuda, Ibn Daud, and of course Judah Halevi and Moses Maimonides.

    It is a well-known fact that the Jewish authors in question were, in general, students of the works of the Muslim Falasifa (philosophers) and acknowledged their debts to them. Moreover they frequently and candidly adopted their interpretations of the works of Plato and Aristotle.

    There is an important difference, however. In Islam, especially Western Islam, where the Judaeo-Arabic tradition flourished, philosophical and exegetical literature were fairly distinct enterprises. In the West the preferred philosophic teacher was al-Farabi, whose works have extremely few Quranic references, and refer mainly to classical philosophy and the works of Plato and Aristotle.

    By contrast, in the works of the Judaeo-Arabic philosophers, Scripture and its exegesis play an important role.


    There are some important differences between Jewish Sufism and its Islamic models. In Muslim Sufism the ultimate aim is to achieve union with God. The Jewish sources instead emphasize prophecy as the ultimate goal. The chasidim often referred to themselves as ‘b’nei hanevi’im’, the disciples of the Prophets. This seems to be associated with the belief mentioned by Maimonides that the gift of prophecy was soon to be renewed among the children of Israel. It could not have been an idea held by Muslim Sufis, for whom the cycle of prophecy had been terminated with Muhammed


    Paul Fenton, “Judaeo-Arabic Mystical Writings of the XIIIth-XIVth Centuries”, in Golb, Judaeo-Arabic Studies (1997), 89
    Hillel Fradkin, “Philosophy or Exegesis” in Golb, 103-105

    Time-line:

    by c. 500 BCE – completion of most books of the Hebrew Bible
    70 CE – destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem by the Romans
    c. 220 – completion of the Mishnah, founding text of Rabbinic Judaism, including Pirkei Avot, a collection of ethical sayings
    by c. 400 – completion of the Jerusalem Talmud and early Midrashim
    c. 571 – birth of Muhammad
    c. 600 – completion of the Babylonian Talmud
    c. 610 – first revelations of the Quran to Muhammad
    622 – Muhammad’s journey from Mecca to Medina (both now in Saudi Arabia), the Hejira. Muhammad assumes leadership of Medina. Year One in the Muslim calendar.
    632 – death of Muhammad
    633-642 – Arab/Muslim conquest of Syria (including Palestine), Iraq and Egypt
    711-712 – Muslim conquest of Spain
    928-942 – in Iraq, Saadya Gaon writes his Arab translation of the Bible and other works
    1038-56 – Samuel ibn Naghrela serves as vizier of Granada, high point of Jewish power in Muslim Spain
    c. 1080 – in Spain, Rabbenu Bachya ibn Pakuda writes Duties of the Heart in Arabic
    1085 – first beginnings of Christian reconquest of Spain
    c. 1139 – in Spain, Judah HaLevi writes the Kuzari in Arabic
    1190 – in Egypt, Maimonides writes Guide for the Perplexed in Arabic
    1204 – death of Maimonides; his son R. Avraham ben haRambam succeeds him as leader 1200s and 1300s – Maimonides’ son and descendants, leaders of Egyptian Jewry, promote a Jewish version of Sufism as the best path of Jewish piety
    1492 – final completion of Christian reconquest of Spain, expulsion of Jews and Muslims

    http://post.queensu.ca/~jjl/islam.html
     
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  3. John99 Banned Banned

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    Paul Fenton??? never heard of him.
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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  7. John99 Banned Banned

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    Thank's but it is not something i would look for. Did you produce the part above the timeline yourself?

    If you did i will pay closer attention and read it again, can you possibly summarize it?

    On a quick read through i was able to deduce that old jewish guys consulted old arab ones.

    Thank you.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Duh, I'm not so good as that.

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    Its an article I came across in a blog I read regularly and I thought it was interesting enough to share, so I selected the parts I thought interesting and removed as much bias as I could.

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    The link is at the end.
     
  9. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    actually, the similarities between sufi islam and judaism are staggering.

    (maimonides is one of my favorites)

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    you should also look into moses de leon, sam. he wrote (allegedly) one of the jewish texts that sort of "bridge the gap" between islam and judaism, the zohar.
    you will feel like you are reading a muslim text.

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  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks, I'll look out for him.

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  11. Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

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    In particular, is there a connection between:

    Sufism
    Hasidism
    Quakerism

    I think the last had a saying "hands to work, hearts to God", but I may be confusing them with the Shakers . . .
     
  12. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    indeed, this sounds like a quaker saying.
     
  13. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

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    How is this science? Apart from forensic anthropology, anthropology isn't exactly science. Some dude discovers a piece of ancient settlement and uses clues to claim its part of a certain civilization. Keep in mind there is no real data to affirm his claims; too many variables. This is why anthropology is and can be argued whether its science or not. As for anything religion, thats just not science, religion is not something quantitative, there is no verifiable method. Separation of church and state, separation of religion and science. If religion is now science, then what is the point of it?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2007
  14. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    there is already a thread on this subject in "site feedback". please take your grievance there.
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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  16. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    for the most part, this is correct.
     
  17. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    That claim is not entirely accurate; according to Surah al-Baqarah 2:285

    "We make no distinction among any of His messengers"
     
  18. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    well...in practice, you and i both know that isnt true.

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    regardless, it is actually hard to differentiate the 2 religions' dogma aside from the veneration of mohammed, at least in my experience.
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I find it incredible that most Muslims have read the Hadith which says that Muhammed did not want his sayings/actions recorded and see no contradiction in recording that statement.

    I think the popularity of the hadith has made the Prophet more venerable, plus most Muslims ignore all the verses that say he is just a man, a messenger, etc and focus on him as a symbol of the religion. The Quran does not justify this behaviour in any way.
     
  20. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    well, my lady and i have had conversations about this topic.
    i have told her that i dont want to do any writings on religious subjects anymore, because you never know what somebody will do to your words 100 years from now.

    i had about half a book on esoteric judaism written, and i stopped because of it.

    *shrug*
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Writing about religion is good, I think, reading people's perspectives about how they view faith (even atheists) is important. I don't think you should abandon your writing. As it is, the internet is full of crap about religion. We need a few good men out there too.

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  22. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    well, i think that my potential for severe damage is larger than my potential to help, so ill leave it alone.

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    doesnt keep me from my own personal writings though.
    give me a shout and ill send you some of it if you want.
     
  23. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You write well and even if you decide not to publish you should keep at it.

    Send me it, I love reading on religion and I know so little about Judaism.

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