Basically some churches here run this thing called an 'Alpha course' which is basically where they 'train' people to be christian. The people that go, (from what I have seen), are those on the edge, those unsure of who they are, where they are going in life etc etc. The stories of these peoples lives consistently revolves around their husbands running off or some other such 'tragedy' that has ultimately led them to the Alpha course. My brother, (he's a bit of a lunatic), obviously became friendly with a couple of these people and ended up going to their church. He asked me to join him because I could see he wanted someone to be able to debate the claims, know what to ask etc and so on.. basically a voice of reason in a sea of madness, (not being offensive, just the best way I could explain it). So basically you go along and for an hour or so have some beer/wine, some food if you want it and mingle a little bit. All the while some religious dude plays some religious 'rock' music, (it's always the same damn song). After that a preacher gets up on the stage and talks about a specific topic. Last night for instance was about god healing. The man spoke of these magical cases in Lagos where people with full blown AIDS have just got better after a little prayer. After that, except for last night, people break off into groups and discuss the issues. This is generally where I get to give it the atheist take, the other week I started earlier when the main priest asked if anyone had any questions.. Bad mistake on his part. The first week I was there was funny.. The woman preacher got up on stage and spoke about how the church doesn't coerce people to go there. I agreed completely so stood up, raised my glass and said "thanks for the free beer!" (I found it funny at least) Anyway, so as I said last night was about god's healing ability. So, the dude is like: "let's all speak to god and see if we can find someone here that needs our help". They all do some weird chanting thingy.. One of them says "god has told me this person has a painful left shoulder".. Everyone looks around waiting for someone to say "me!!!!" but nobody does. So then another guy is like.. "yes, I've been told he also has a leg problem". Same result... This continued, even ending up with this person having psoriasis. Seriously, it reminded me of those fortune tellers.. "I can see a number 7, and a person with long or short hair, with or without a tattoo, that is either a man or a woman".. "ME! ME!" So anyway, they turn up nobody so quickly forget the whole point of what they were trying to show and then were like.. "well, if anyone here has a problem we'll pray for them" Of course I spoke up.. A few days before I went to the opticians and had to hand them my glasses to 'upgrade'. Unfortunately I only own one pair and can't see much without them. So I mention my eyesight and then a few moments later I was surrounded by 6 people, (please note these people were not the 'on the edge' people I spoke of earlier, these were the hardcores there to guide those on the edge). They placed their hands on my forehead, I was seated. They all started mumbling - which for some bizarre reason reminded me of the X Files. While 5 were chanting or mumbling or some such thing, one person would actually pray out loud.. "dear god please heal Snakes eyesight blah de blah". Then the next person would pray out loud and the former speaker would go back to mumbling. This went on for half an hour at least. I was almost convinced that I would open my eyes and be able to see a pair of ants bonking on the other side of town. Alas it was not to be. They blathered on about the usual, (gods will and all that crap), to which I invariably pointed out Matthew 18, (if two or more people agree and ask for something it will be done). To this there was no answer. Anyway, it led me to a conclusion. I said: "Look, no offence but for half an hour you have been praying for my eyes to get better and have been absolutely convinced that it would happen. All it would have taken is £500 and the same amount of time in front of a laser and my eyes would be better. You have action and inaction. Action is to go to a registered doctor, inaction is to pray. One works, the other is a complete waste of energy" I can only :shrug: at the idiocy of it all. So, anything anyone wants to say? (why do I get the distinct impression someone is going to come along and tell me they are not "real" christians (tm)?)
Snake It takes a lot of guts to get involved with something like that. Are you going to continue in your efforts?
You know.. K wait, et me give you a quick story.. My wife and her sister were talking the other day about my brother and how, since joining this church, he's become a lot calmer etc. So then my wifes sister asked why I went there. I explained that if we go through life only hearing one perspective that we will accept it without question because that is all we know. My objective here is to offer an alternative perspective and then at least, regardless to the decision, people will "hear both sides". A choice is never a choice if it's the only one available. In that instance it's not a choice, it's an inevitability. To answer your question... yes, I do believe I will. Whether people ultimately change their views is irrelevant, I simply intend to equip them with the ability to make a more informed decision. What do I get out of it? Free beer.. I like my drink, and as useless as that might sound, it's good enough for me Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
These type of threads are always devoid of theists. Reason being, this completely shows them for what they are. Oh, and this was in the UK? *shudder* The other day I was in a sort of asian part of the city, and above a bank (yes, a bank), there was a huge sign attatched to the 4 story building saying "JESUS DIED FOR YOU!"... Quite why this was in an asian neighbourhood and attatched to a national bank, I don't know... but I thought of renting out the building opposite and hanging a giant "THE STORY OF JESUS IS EXAGGERATED"... Just for the sake of balance Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
the distressed are only one category of person who is attracted to religion BG 7.16: O best among the Bhāratas, four kinds of pious men begin to render devotional service unto Me — the distressed, the desirer of wealth, the inquisitive, and he who is searching for knowledge of the Absolute. better than them is the desirer of wealth, better than them is the inquisitive and better than them is the philosopher. All of these however are only beginning to render devotional service to god since they have some material agenda to fulfill needless to say, for every material agenda that exists, someone else is out there to capitalize on it Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Unfortunately, anyone who searches will find thousands of religions claiming the Absolute. So, it must be the individual who decides what is absolute.
I agree with you. Every individual searches for his own Absolute Truth. It cannot possibly be any other way. But that only explains the different approaches of people, it says nothing about the Truth.
Like I said, each religion, including those not practiced anymore, claims to know the Absolute Truth. Each deny vehemently the other's claims to know the Absolute Truth. They are either all wrong or one is right, and it may be the religion no one practices anymore. So, where does that leave the so-called Absolute Truth?
-Has it completely slipped your observation that all religions share a core that is identical? There's your absolute truth.
Good logic there... Shit can come in all shapes, sizes and consistencies, but it's still shit no matter what.
I know what you mean. Unfortunately from that "core" that they all share came all the wonderfull dogma and nonsense that has brought the world more hell than heaven.
Kenny JC, Good logic there yourself hypocrite. I was responding to Q's post in which he stated that all religions are different. Which is not true. Humankind's religions across time and culture comes up with remarkably similar views on the nature of reality, which suggests that they aren't simply being made up. And if they are simply being made up how do you account for the consistency? Instead of using logic you came up with a shit analogy. Good job hypocrite.
Interesting. I'd like to see some quotes from the Pali Canon or the Vedas "vehemently denying" the truths of other religions.
Rapacious wit!! I love it Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Be that as it may, group hysteria is a very frightening phenomenon. Benny Hinn is heralded by some sectors of christianity to be a faith healer. That unabashed con artist was invited to our country on two occasions. The aftermath of each visit was me overhearing or otherwise being subjected to talks of "the miracles of god" and what-have-you. I even remember some old lady insisting on the radio that she felt the power (as opposed to an adrenaline/endorphin rush...i guess that isn't sensational enough). Mind you, their fervour remains unstalled despite the number of people who attended and pointed out that they were not healed. Matter of fact, one of the unhealed made the newspaper...and died two weeks after. I won't be surprised if that swindler is invited again.
