turkish response of armenian claims

Armenian Genocide

today marks the day that the first salvo for the Armenian massacre was started by turks

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/

And commemorated on the 24th of April

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

huh.
never heard of that.
im not armernian, so...
???

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

"Who remembers the Armenians?" said Hitler, when he was asked if he thouht he could get away with his crimes.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

what?
ive just never heard of the armenian genocide...
no-one's ever told me about it.
what was it?

 

Nobody regonizes it. U.S lobbying some law to regonize it. Not sure about the law thing.

 

What is your evidence that Hitler made this statement? What was his audience? When did he make it? When was it first reported?

It sounds like propaganda/misinformation to me.

 

dude, it was freakin' hitler. he said stuff like this all the time. he was these statements.

okay, well, if it was the ottomans doing what, i dont care. the turk empire kicked ass.

 

John Toland: Hitler. p585. quoting from Hitler's Table Talk. Conversation orderingn his generals to show no mercy to Poles and similar inferior races because Germany needed lebensraum.

 

Mass murder doesn't matter if the murderers "kicked ass"?

 

I too understand that the quotation supposedly comes from an address given to the top brass (on August 22, 1939) prior to the invasion of Poland. The quotation first appeared in The Times (London) on November 24, 1945.

Not only can the quotation not be found in the original minutes of this gathering, it makes little sense in the context of the invasion of Poland. Hitler was not planning a genocide of the Poles. It is interesting that the quotation is never seen in the "original German". Besides, had Hitler said anything like it, he would have needed to say more, to explain himself, for the very reason that the Armenian genocide was indeed a forgotten piece of history.

I am not aware that Hitler referred to the Armenian genocide on any other occasion -- though I am open to correction. This unique alleged reference seems totally unlikely. Much British wartime propaganda made fun of Hitler. It was at about the time this quotation was "discovered" that he was being turned into a figure of unique and execrable evil, and the Nuremburg version of history was being constructed.

 

Well, I don't know ....what do the Turks say about it? I'll bet they have a different idea about that, huh? So who's right?

In any and all disagreements or conflicts, there's always another story and it's often in the best interest of everyone to research the issue carefully. I'm not so sure about the Armenian incident, but my guess is that the Turks felt that they had some revenge for something that was done to them previously by the Armenians. And so goes history ....when was the first punch thrown? In the Garden of Eden, perhaps?

Baron Max

 

I came across an earlier reference to a book What about Germany by Louis P Lochner, published in 1943. How reliable it is I don't know.

It does make sense in the context: Hitler often referred to the alleged German need for "lebensraum" as a justification for his invasion and often cited great conquerors and killers in a Social Darwinist justification of such acts and claimed that they had got away with their acts and so they were justified. The Poles and other "inferior races" were to be reduced to helots. In the context- whether it was Hitler's own speech or propaganda aginst him- it makes equal sense as a half-forgotten slaughter used as a example. Hapsburg is an instance of ignorance of the Armenians and a lot of people probably only learned of the Armenian slaughter through Hitler's alleged reference. If it was part of a speech then people may have omitted it in their reports of what was said. However, unless Lochner provides a better source or there is unpublished evidence in the Nuremberg archive, it would be better not to cite it with regard to Hitler's own views. As i said, here its importance is that either Hitler or a propagandist thought it an example of a forgotten and successful crime.

Hitler was pretty funny, as Chaplin and Orwell pointed out. It's been suggested that one reason for appeasement was that many British politicians couldn't believe Hitler and didn't take what he said seriously. British propaganda seemed to make of Hitler and the nazis a comic combination of ogres and bogey men: certainly German atrocities were mentioned when they were fairly small, but- for example- hardly anyone seems to have believed in the extermination camps, partly from distrust of jewish sources partly from an inability to imagine them.

 

http://come.to/armenia

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/

Some 1.5-2.0 Armenians being slaughtered by the Turks in the early 20th century.

Largely forgotten, probably because WWI and WWII came after that, and the Holocaust was even scarier. You seldom talk about the silver medalists, do you?

 

Thanks for your Lochner reference, Thersites.
This site (though heavily biased) does a good job at discrediting Lochner. But one always wants to hear "the other side".

Untangling the truth about WWII is a fascinating business! Friendly Fire: The Secret War Between the Allies by Lynn Picknett et al comes out in paperback next week (in UK). I am looking forward to learning something new. Don't miss it!

 

I'm not sure who was the better historian; Hitler (for finding obscure German references to the Armenian Genocide) or the people that wrote those comments, by finding his reference?

2 questions?
1) you don't think Hitler was evil? unique or otherwise?
2) do you think the history of Hitler & the nazis was politically vilified, after the fact?

 

I do not believe that Hitler ever made this remark about the Armenians, Randolpho. There are three contemporary records of the meeting at which it is said to have been uttered (one of them used as evidence at Nuremburg), none of which makes reference to any such remark.

I suspect that Lochner made it up, but it is also possible that someone did plant the alleged "transcript" on him. I do not believe that Hitler intended to treat the Poles in the way that the Turks are said to have treated the Armenians. Why not? Because this was 1939. Barkhorn1x made an accurate observation in the recent thread on Dresden when he wrote: "What was unthinkable in 1940 was common place in 1945." There was an escalation of mayhem during the war years. Indiscriminate mass-murder was not contemplated in 1939.

Sixty years after WWII, it is still incredibly difficult to establish many facts. One needs to read what "revisionist historians" have written, but while some of them have done masterful research work, they also often show poor judgement in weighing their new evidence.

In response to your two questions. I really do not have a grasp of Hitler's personality. For all that I have read about him, I do not feel that I know him. After the end of the war in Europe, there was a deliberate aim by the Allies (fostered by the Jews) to paint the Nazi regime as having been uniquely evil. I doubt that that can accurately be said of any person, regime or institution. Most people have learned a very skewed, selective and unbalanced version of the events of WWII, created by the Victors and promoted by the Jewish-controlled media (e.g. Hollywood).

 

not sure why my name is so difficult to spell for so many people, could be they want to 'anglosize' me? I don't like the 'pseudo-greek' affectation of using "ph" for "f", if its so hard, just copy & paste.

maybe, could be true. whether Hitler said it or not, both the Turks & Germans did the same, killed people in their way of their ideas of 'turkish nationality' or 'aryan superiority'

so Hitler may have been a good guy, a misguided nationalist or poorly understood? as to the answer to the second question, I'm not sure you answered it, unless you are implying 2 things;
1) that the nazis were also misunderstood, &
2) that "jews" control the media?
how do you justify those points?

 

It is believed that it is a myth that Hitler made the quote about Armenians. It is the Armenian diaspora that has probably kept the myth alive.

In my opinion it is more significant that the quote is plausible than whether or not Hitler actually made the quote. Jews are not the only victims of genocide and Armenians should have recieved acknowledgement of their victimization the way the Jews did. The same kind of quote could have been attributed to Turkish leaders saying nobody cared that Belgian King Leopold killed a million people in the Congo so who would care about them killing the Armenians. Or the quote could have been attributed to King Leopold saying nobody cared about the Americans exterminating the native Americans so who would care about him killing a million Africans. It is politically correct to acknowledge the barbarity of what Hitler did to the Jews because Hitler lost his war against the nations that would dominate the spin bias in the telling of history.

 

I administer myself a sharp mental kick for mis-spelling your name, Randolfo. Apologies!

I don't think historians should concern themselves with whether people were good or evil. They should concern themselves with hard facts. I would like to understand Hitler better, not in order to pass judgement on him but in order to have a better grasp of his motives and actions, and thus have a better understanding of the history of WWII.

Although the Nuremburg Trials were concerned to a degree with the "administration of justice", they were mainly staged (like Soviet show trials) as a means of managing and creating the historical record. The aim was to create a picture favourable to the Allies: a history in which they were the "good guys". An impartial observer might have found the Soviet regime as obnoxious as the Nazis; might have found the indiscriminate bombing of German towns difficult to excuse; might have found postwar vengeance against the Germans distasteful. Hitler and the Nazis needed to be painted the blackest shade of black. Facts were of secondary importance. They might be invented or ignored, as required. The influence of the Nuremburg Trials and its associated history-creation has lingered unto the present day.

The Armenian quotation is an example of a “fact” being invented. (Not invented at Nuremburg, but revealed in The Times just as the Trials commenced.) At present, the history of WWII is full of such inventions and distortions. It is not a matter of Hitler or the Nazis being “misunderstood” – not more misunderstood than everything else at any rate. It is just so difficult to establish whether what one reads conforms to a reliable and balanced account of events. The best one can do is to detect likely falsehoods and discrepancies with other accounts. One goes to more sources; gropes with a greater accumulation of “facts” – many of which may be inaccurate or misleading. Slowly, one hopes one is getting a clearer picture. Never underestimate how many lies you have been told!

Jewish control of the media? Look here, here, here, here and here.

 

You do know that "jew watch" is well-known as a racist website. It's blatantly nazi-istic.

And what is wrong with judaism? You seem to have a problem with it if you're making rants about "them" controlling the media.
(never thought I'd be defending Randolfo)

And on the subject of Randolfo:
Yes, I think the Ottomans kicked ass, on nearly all ways. They were a center of military strength, power, grace, learning, and had some of the greatest rulers ever seen upon this Earth.
As for my name: I just like the Austrian Habsburgs more than the Osmanli or the Hohenzollerns or Wettins, Hanoverians, or even the Stuarts.
As for the thing of "kicking ass being the only thing that counts". No, it's just what counts the most: what legacy you can establish that can outlast your empire. Or, in my words, how much you kick ass.

But, eh. RiverApe, it's my opinion that you have problems with judaism, and that insults me. Not because i'm jewish, because im not, but because i'm an advocate of equality. And discrimination is a clear breach of the basics of equal rights.