Another book about the fantasy of christianity

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M*W: I just came across another book about the true authors of the New Testament:

Abelard Reuchlm, The True Authorship Of The New Testament (the Abelard Reuchlm Foundation, P0 Box 5652, Kent, WA, USA, 1979

Has anyone read this book? If so, what did you think about it? Parts of it are published on the Internet.

H.G. Wells commented that christianity was written based on the Myth of Ra (sun worship). The Myth-Ra is also known as 'Mithra.'

 

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It wasn't based on Ra man get over it.....why are you so concerned with disproving Christianity? Did some Christians do something to you in the past?

Jesus the myth was probably inspired by an actual living person...like most ancient myths and legends...

 

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It is possible. I always think your points are to say the least valid. I'm sure no one has even given that much credit eh?

 

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Surely not.

 

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M*W: Sorry to break the news to ya, but most ancient myths and legends were based on more ancient myths and legends.

 

Yep, that is a fact.
Look at how the ancient greeks were so impressed with their visits to egypt,the people and their religous system.
Many Egyptian Gods/Goddesses were adopted by the greeks,albeit changed in nature somewhat.
Aset became Isis
Heru became Horus
Asar became Osiris
Hetheru became Hathor
etc...

No different with the ancient hebrews ..much of their religous system is borrowed from the egyptians and others groups around them at the time.
Ancient people did base much of their beliefs on the stars ,sun, the moon.
The egyptians surely did. Wonder where the bronze age jews got the idea!

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So i guess in 2-3000k years our ancestors will find a copy of Harry Potter and think it is real too. You wouldnt think life worked that way but.....

 

Great point John99.

 

Thanks.

 

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M*W: Did you mean to use the word "ancestors," or did you mean to say "descendants?" Who knows what they'll think in the future. Hopefully, they will be more intelligent than us. That's expected... but who knows what the future holds? In 2-3k years down the road, technology will be so far advanced that it will make us look like we're in the Dark Ages technologically right now. Harry Potter may be remembered as reality or he may be seen as a mythological hero (a god-man, if you will). By that time, memory will probably be implanted, so they may have it technologically together by then. One thing I can promise you, though, is in 2-3k years more, there will still be no god unless we create one, but there will always be ancient myths and legends.

 

Thats not entirely true, you also ignore all the many many differences between Ra and Jesus. What you are saying is that all the people in history were simply myths, people like Socrates, Plato, etc...were just myths. Through your logic if I find many similarities between one president and another it must mean they were just legends inspired by each other. It was impossible for them to have some similarities, using your logic.

In the case of someone like Jesus he probably historically existed, people like Odyssius probably existed historically in some form also, though there is myth surrounding him.

 

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M*W: No, I don't ignore the differences between Ra and Jesus, it's just that there are not many differences. If you can list the differences between them, I'll be happy to take a look.

No, I'm not saying that all people in history were simply myths. Of course, they're not! Myths are myths and historical beings are historical beings. Socrates and Plato at least wrote things and became known for their philosophies, so there is credible evidence that they existed. Jesus, however, wrote nothing that we are aware of today. His historical being is unlikely as there is absolutely no evidence to prove he existed.

Odysseus and other god-like beings probably didn't exist either. Most mythological gods did evolve from the anthropomorphization of the sun, and if they didn't evolve metaphorically from the sun, they were representations of the constellations.

You cannot use American presidents in your analogy. As far as we all know, they did exist. They have left us written proof of their affairs (no pun intended, Mr. Clinton). Sure, they may have followed in the footsteps of other presidents. I guess that's why we have political parties. Don't you remember when Loyd Bentsen at the Vice-Presidental debate several campaign years ago when Lloyd Bentsen shut-up Dan Quayle when Quayle alluded to being like Jack Kennedy? Lloyd said, "You're no Jack Kennedy...". Try as they may, it didn't work.

I look forward to reading the differences between Ra and Jesus, and why don't you throw in Buddha, Krishna, Dionysus and Mithras, just to solidify your point.

 

Ohhhh I get it...now you're saying if someone writes something that causes them to exist and if they don't write something that causes them not to exist. So I guess if you never wrote anything, you would've never existed, writing something causes one to exist right?

You really believe that EVERYTHING evolved from a Sun myth and that there were no ancient people which inspired legends?

Why can't I use presidents in my analogy? Is it because writing causes one to exist? The problem is that in ancient times not that many people knew how to write only a selected few....

The differences between Ra and Jesus are innumerable and almost unlimited....I can think of at least 5 or more just from the top of my head:
- Ra never encouraged peace in the same way as Jesus did
- Ra is almost always potrayed with a falcon head, Jesus never was
- The many stories where Ra is involved where Jesus was never involved (for instance Ra traveled in a boat to the underworld and fought off monsters)
- Ra had nothing against idol worship and rituals, Jesus did
- Ra is said of have commanded the chariot or Sun across the sky, Jesus never...
- Ra is aging God living on another world...not Jesus
- Ra and Jesus say almost completely different things....
- The entire stories behind Ra and Jesus are nearly 100% different...
- etc....

Its no wonder that no serious historian believes that Ra and Jesus were the same...only someone deluded by their own prejudice would believe that Ra and Jesus were the same...you would only have a compelling argument with Krishna and Jesus...

 

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M*W: You're kinda dense, aren't you? You're making too many false assumptions. If someone writes something, and it can be proven that they wrote it, that's pretty good evidence that they existed. Let's take the case of Paul who was credited with writing most of the NT. In his case, there is more proof that he didn't exist, and the NT was written by other factions still worth debating.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were credited with writing four gospels, but there is also no proof that they existed. There's no proof than any of the apostles existed. So, just because you read something somebody was alleged to have written, doesn't mean they wrote it. I know you'll not understand this, but who cares?

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M*W: As I explained above, many people existed but didn't write anything. Probably because they were illiterate. Most of the documents we have today were written and copied by Catholic monks in the monasteries, but we cannot be sure who wrote each piece of work or who took credit for it. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were book TITLES, not necessarily the authors who wrote those books.

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M*W: I really believe that many god-hero figures were created by ancient people who watched the skies. Have you ever read any Joseph Campbell on mythology? You should.

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M*W: The American Presidents left a legacy. History has documented those legacies. Some wrote more than others, but your analogy of presidents is silly. In the greater scheme of things, we're only talking as recently as the past 231 years! Ancient recorded myths go back 7000 years or so, but back further through cave paintings and artifacts that have been found and dated as far back as 25000-30000 years.

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M*W: Five is not "innumerable."

- Ra never encouraged peace in the same way as Jesus did

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M*W: Can you prove Jesus existed? I don't think so. Then you cannot say that Jesus encouraged peace until you can prove he existed.

- Ra is almost always potrayed with a falcon head, Jesus never was

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M*W: No, Jesus was associated with a dove that landed on his head and probably left droppings.

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M*W: The MYTH of Jesus has him riding in a boat, walking on water, fishing for men, casting out demons. Sounds pretty close to me.

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M*W: All of christianity was based on the rituals of Jesus! "Take this cup... yada yada yada...".

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M*W: The Jesus MYTH had him to say "...unto them, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

"Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity. What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?"

Ecclesiastes 1:2f John 8:12

Jesus was referred to as the "Morningstar."

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this of this world." John 8:23

"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:" John 18:36

"Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him."

John 11:9f

Matthew 17:2 "His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light."

Psalms 84:11 "the Lord God is a sun..."

Malachi 4:2 "the Sun of Righteousness..."

I could go on, but I think most of you get the picture.

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M*W: Technically, the oldest thing in our universe is the sun. The study of the sun and solar system which includes the zodiac was originally called "logos," or "the Word." Then christians came along and said "the Word" was Jesus!

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M*W: Again, prove Jesus existed and spake something. Then prove Ra spake and said something. Neither of them had a mouth or words to say!

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M*W: The MYTHS of Ra and Jesus are 100% the SAME! I rest my case!

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M*W: Even the most educated of historians cannot prove Jesus existed. The MYTH of Ra doesn't fall under the heading of historians, unless you're talking the history of MYTHS!

Do some reading outside your bible. You desperately need some education.

 

Really kind of dense? I was only using your own logical fallacy against you...

Now you're saying proof causes existence, without it you must not exist...also you haven't hit the point that most historians don't agree with your notions....

You didn't explain that, instead you said proof is what makes them exist...

I wonder why a lot of historians disagree...but then again you know more than historians about history even though all historians study is history

Exactly, its easier to see evidence for the past 231 years or so because of the innovations...

AHAHAHAHA..man I really got a great laugh at all your "similarities" it really reminds me of supporters of Nostradamus..take something vaguely similar and say that its an exact match.....

OMG My grandmother likes doves, I guess that means she's a legend inspired by Ra!!

I went on a boat once and sometimes refer to insecurities as demons...I guess that equates taking a boat to the underworld and fighting monsters...hahaha

Its no wonder that NO SERIOUS HISTORIAN takes any of this Horus-Jesus-Ra similarity thing seriously, because the similarities are too vague and far-off, just like with Nostradamus's predictions.....

100% same? Man you must have real deep hatred for Christianity, I mean its really deluding you....

I mean you don't even know what 100% means, its akin to saying that the story of Harry Potter is equivalent to the The Matrix...

I have an education, but you don't, thats why historians disagree with you. As for Jesus's existence, there really is no historical evidence. But ofcourse at the time Jesus was just another man claiming to be the messiah, he was also not that popular at the time, no historian would really bother with noting him....they would note the kings, politicians, etc...

 

MW, if you haven't read "Misquoting Jesus", you MUST go get and read it as soon as possible. Written by one of the top biblical scholars, it is a brilliant look at how the Bible was put together, and how many of the dogmatic changes were made over the years. It is, in my opinion, the best book on the subject and where anybody should begin their study of the Bible.

I beg you to check it out.

 

What "dogmatic changes?"

 

Please do us the honor, and back up this statement with evidence. BTW the bible saying it, does not make it "EVIDENCE" OK!

Which Jesus?
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/surfeit.htm

Will the real Jesus please stand up! :shrug:

 

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M*W: You're right, and I don't plan on wasting anymore time on VO. He obviously doesn't have any concept of the history of religion, and his childish banter is... well... like talking to a brick wall.

 

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M*W: I've picked that book up from time to time, read through it, but put it back on the shelf. Since you recommend it, I will look at it more seriously. In fact, I'm going to B&N today. Did you find that it was an easy read or more complicated? I don't mind taking the time to really read the material, and as I said, that book kept jumping off the shelf into my hands! Thanks!