02-24-07, 09:28 PM #1
Tomb of Jesus & James Cameron
No shit, he has found Jesus' coffin along with Mary Magdalena's.
"Cameron is holding a New York press conference on Monday at which he will reveal three coffins, supposedly those of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother Mary and Mary Magdalene. "
02-24-07, 09:53 PM #2
I'll wait to see the evidence, but that is pretty scandalous.
02-25-07, 03:26 AM #3
Its a good movie tactic, really. Atheism is hot right now, so is hollyweird fascination with religious movies, ever since Mel's little gem netted over $100million in 3 day weekend. Besides how the hell is DNA testing going to prove it was Christ? Do we have any DNA evidence that he existed at all?
02-25-07, 09:06 PM #4
If it weren't inherently harmless, like The daVinci Code, it wouldn't be in the MSM.
There is a book that truly will put an end to the Christian religion, eventually. It's called Caesar's Messiah, by Joseph Atwill. Reading it was one of the most thrilling experiences I've ever had.
02-25-07, 09:12 PM #5Besides how the hell is DNA testing going to prove it was Christ? Do we have any DNA evidence that he existed at all?
I like to call them Christ Chex, or Catholic Crunch, just pour them in a bowl, add milk, and you have a delicious breakfast food, as well as Christ's DNA!
02-25-07, 09:50 PM #6
I get it. Funny!
02-25-07, 10:28 PM #7
From the website of the Belfast Telegraph:
But prominent Jerusalem archaeologist Amos Kloner, who officially oversaw the work at the tomb, dismissed the claims.
"It makes a great story for a TV film,'' the professor reportedly told The Jerusalem Post. "But it's impossible. It's nonsense.'' (BelfastTelegraph.co.uk)
I would urge everybody to bear in mind the wisdom of the late Douglas Adams:
"The argument goes something like this: 'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
"'But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
"'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanished in a puff of logic.
"'Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing. (The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)
What? What better opportunity to drag out the classic Adams?
02-26-07, 01:35 PM #8
M*W: Well, I would praise god if there was one, but since there's not, I can finally... rest in peace knowing that there is someone out there who actually reads extra-biblical material!!!
Atwill's book opens the eyes of the blind. His comparisons between Christianity and the events of the Roman Empire are just too coincidental to dismiss.
You might also be interested in Francesco Carotta's, Jesus Was Caesar: On the Julian Origin of Christianity: An Investigative Report, ASPEKT, 2005. Same theme, more detail. I order most of my books at Amazon.com and get the used ones, if they are available.
I'd like to have more conversations with you on this subject!!
02-26-07, 02:03 PM #9
CM would make an interesting presentation for a comparative religion class, don't you think? Or the whole topic of whether Jesus, or other gods and god-men (e.g. moses) are based on real people or are purely mythological. One could start out on old gods that no one believes in anymore anyhow, then ask why should Jesus and Mohammed be any different.
MW I look forward to many discussions regarding CM with you. I think it's important that word about it gets around, and at the moment it appears it is being studiously ignored by MSM.
I have yet to read the Carotta book but plan to get it and at least skim it eventually. Atwill is even quite charitable about it and says some elements of Julius Caesar's life may have been borrowed by the writers of the NT. But it would seem that the Atwill version has to be the right one, based on chronology and so many other considerations as you must be aware.
02-26-07, 02:23 PM #10
What's a little disturbing is Fox's response board...a long list of people that decry Cameron and poo-poo his documentary. They can't even imagine the possibility that the bodies might actually be connected to the founding of christianity.
02-26-07, 04:29 PM #11
02-26-07, 04:46 PM #12
M*W: Yes, it is important that the word gets out. I've certainly tried to do my part on this forum.
I believe all the hero myths came from ancient humans viewing the night skies. In a way, it was the first connect-the-dots game. All heros came from the skies as well as all religions.
I agree that some elements of Jesus' life were borrowed from Julius Caesar's life. There's just too many coincidences not to take notice. If nothing else, it made for interesting literature.
Atwill certainly did his homework, and fortunately CM is not a difficult read. I look forward to delving deeper into this theory.
02-26-07, 09:21 PM #13
M*W: James Cameron found a hot topic to create an epic about. Not that I didn't love Titanic. It was so well done. If Cameron can write a storyline about Jesus and MM, I'll go see it for the screenplay and direction only, but like his Titanic, I won't believe it. He's a genius. I respect his diligent work, but he won't be able to prove anything to me. Whatever he creates will be good for the cause, and I'll go see it.
02-27-07, 07:09 AM #14
One thing you could do, if you can get a DNA sample from each is to check a few relations. If Mary Magdalene and Jesus correlate too highly, it is more likely that this is a coincidence, and the relation between the two was brother-sister or mother-son. If they are unrelated, you have stronger evidence that the burial was due to marriage.
By checking all of the occupants, they could make sure that none of the relationships violate what would be expected. That's my guess, anyway.
02-27-07, 07:25 AM #15
02-27-07, 07:27 AM #16
And Mary, Joseph, and Jesus, were very popular names at that time.
02-27-07, 08:09 AM #17
02-27-07, 08:38 AM #18
Add on this.... A sixth inscription, written in Aramaic, translates to "Judah Son of Jesus."
"Jacobovici, director, producer and writer of "The Lost Tomb of Jesus," and his team obtained two sets of samples from the ossuaries for DNA and chemical analysis. The first set consisted of bits of matter taken from the "Jesus Son of Joseph" and "Mariamene e Mara" ossuaries. The second set consisted of patina — a chemical film encrustation on one of the limestone boxes.
The human remains were analyzed by Carney Matheson, a scientist at the Paleo-DNA Laboratory at Lakehead University in Ontario, Canada. Mitochondrial DNA examination determined the individual in the Jesus ossuary and the person in the ossuary linked to Mary Magdalene were not related.
Since tombs normally contain either blood relations or spouses, Jacobovici and his team suggest it is possible Jesus and Mary Magdalene were a couple. "Judah," whom they indicate may have been their son, could have been the "lad" described in the Gospel of John as sleeping in Jesus' lap at the Last Supper.
Upon examining the tomb, the filmmakers determined a space exists that would have fit the "James" ossuary. Given the patina match and this observation, Jacobovici theorizes the lost burial box could, in fact, be the "James" ossuary."
"A possible argument against the Talpiot Tomb being the Jesus Family Tomb is that the collection of names on the ossuary inscriptions could be coincidental.
But Andrey Feuerverger, professor of statistics and mathematics at the University of Toronto, recently conducted a study addressing the probabilities that will soon be published in a leading statistical journal.
Feuerverger multiplied the instances that each name appeared during the tomb's time period with the instances of every other name. He initially found "Jesus Son of Joseph" appeared once out of 190 times, Mariamne appeared once out of 160 times and so on.
To be conservative, he next divided the resulting numbers by 25 percent, a statistical standard, and further divided the results by 1,000 to attempt to account for all tombs — even those that have not been uncovered — that could have existed in first century Jerusalem.
The study concludes that the odds are at least 600 to 1 in favor of the Talpiot Tomb being the Jesus Family Tomb. In other words, the conclusion works 599 times out of 600."
Basically, either a lot of people are lying now or a lot of people lied a long time ago.
Last edited by nietzschefan; 02-27-07 at 08:44 AM.
02-27-07, 08:49 AM #19
I saw an expert on ABC say that about 800 incriptions with Mary, Joseph, and Jesus, have been found in the Holy Land, no news here.
And what DNA will they compare it to?
02-27-07, 09:24 AM #20