Ultimate Martial Artists - Jet Li VS Bruce Lee VS Jackie Chan

[phlogistician]

If you train in martial arts, then you know that reach,speed, and strength are important, but nothing compares to how important technique is. Finess with technique is what allows people who are against the odds to win. "Bigger is better" doesn't apply to a martial artist who really knows what he's doing.

You need both, power is nothing without accuracy, but landing a blow is nothing without power behind it. Some homeboys set their dog on me once, and one punched me in the side of the head as I was pulling it off my leg. He was very surprised he didn't knock me me out, and even more surprised when I headbutted him and knocked him down. This conflict was settled by his lack of power (despite a free hit to side of the head, usually a good stunning blow), and an unrefined technique from me, closing the conflict.

I've never seen this Fedor person before you gave me the link, so yes I'm impressed by his skill. However, he looks like he might be a bit too much of a power house, I didn't really see any true refined movement in his techniques.

If you ever seen, or been in a real fight, you'll know that the movement therein is far from 'refined'. I won one streetfight by banging a guys head against the kerb. How do you do that in a refined manner? Simple answer is you don't. Martial Arts are one thing, but real fights have no art in them.

You need to get out more, and get kicked around.

[John Connellan]

Fedor has taken the art out of martial arts and takes from them, only the effective fighting techniques. He never trains with katas, there are no crazy stances. However, if u see him on the ground, his positioning is almost always perfect. Also, a big reason why Fedor is #1 is not his repertoire of techniques, nor the manner by which he applies them, but by his sheer tenacity and strength. He should have lost a lot of matches where he made big mistakes but instead he held on to come out on top.

[darksidZz]

Even an elephant can withstand direct punches to it if the person doing it is not capable. Fedor can be compared to a giant elephant, which in the ring had no match, and this is not a determining factor in his skills but biology. Anyone with his same traits would do just as well in the ring, but most do not have them or aren't involved in fighting. He could make-up things and still win given his physical power, thus he needs no skill.

Bruce Lee worked out, homed his body and his skills, he truly was a martial arts master because he went beyond arts into a realm of conjecture.

[spidergoat]

Of those three, Bruce Lee was the best. He was a terrible actor, but a serious master of martial arts.

Of living people, I would say Sae Yong Kim, my friend's Hapkido teacher, not very well known, but from what my friend tells me, untouchable. Hapkido isn't as suitable for "sports" matches, since alot of it involves pressure points and special grasping holds on sensitive areas of the body.

[John Connellan]

Anyone with his same traits would do just as well in the ring, but most do not have them or aren't involved in fighting. He could make-up things and still win given his physical power, thus he needs no skill.

Fedors got loads of skill! He is a walking advertisement for Sambo. I'm sure the number of sambo practitioners have sky-rocketed in Russia

[cato]

If you train in martial arts, then you know that reach,speed, and strength are important, but nothing compares to how important technique is. Finess with technique is what allows people who are against the odds to win. "Bigger is better" doesn't apply to a martial artist who really knows what he's doing.

this is the same damn argument people with small penises use. however, you forget that skill and size do not trade off, you can have both, and Fedor does.

... he looks like he might be a bit too much of a power house, I didn't really see any true refined movement in his techniques.

you are kidding me right? his ground skill is one of the best in the world. additionally, those big "power house" punches he throws don't look real crisp, but thats because he punches in from the sides, its much harder to defend, so what looks sloppy is actually part of his technique.

[cato]

take a look at this clip, you know he is a skilled fighter from what happens at 1:45. he takes a shot to the head that almost knocked him out. he could barely stand up but he had the intuition enough to tie-up with his opponent so he could not hit him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc__xo-iQwY

[phlogistician]

this is the same damn argument people with small penises use.

Bada BING! Cato wins with 'Abisetaoshi'!

[Prince_James]

Spidergoat:

You ever see this sensei fight outside the classroom?

[Prince_James]

darksidZz:

Fedor isn't simply "built like an elephant". He has to train constantly throughout the years to attain his level of strength + speed + aggression + skill. This isn't a matter of him simply throwing his fists around like a wild bull, despite the fact that he has an excellent physique for fighting.

[Chatha]

Just forget about jackie chan, any man named "jackie" should be automatically disqualified. Now lets see, Jet Li is a cross between Bruce and Jackie Chan; theatrics and actual training. Usually the cross-breed is the better breed, the best of both world. I say Jet Li, he has a little more muscle than Bruce Lee and almost just as fast.

[spidergoat]

Spidergoat:

You ever see this sensei fight outside the classroom?

No. I have never seen him at all. I realize this isn't a compelling argument in his favor, but he once allegedly fought off a whole gang of thugs in Korea.

[RickyH]

Isn't jackie chan out of shape now? bruce lee is dead, and jet li is like the only of of the three who would win now...

[cato]

its theoretical Rickey, its a "what if" thread where each would be judged by their performance at their peak.

[fLuX]

Prince_James:

By technique I am simply referring to the refined movement involved with anything in martial arts. The clip I saw of Fador was him aimlessly swinging his arms and ramming someone into the ground. Severe enforcement of technique allows one to not waste energy, while exhausting the opponent. Its fluidic movemement, with a crisp, vicious ending. As I stated earlier, I only saw the two links that Cato provided me with, and I read a few articles on Fador afterwards. I do not think he is a terrible fighter, surely by remaining a champion he has skill, I will not argue that. But in comparison to Bruce Lee, i find his technique lacking. I will give him credit for what he has accomplished, however. Fador seems to be very talented.

phlogistician:

Yes, the ground is often where a fight is won, or lost, but it is not always the case. However, I am not talking about ground 'fighting' I am specifying on ground -grappling-. If you train in Brazilian Jui Jutsu and attempt an arm bar against someone who is violently shaking and ripping their arms in and out of of the way, it is going to be extremely difficult to find a way to execute the move. Training in something like BJJ doesn't always prepare you for someone who is biting your flesh and pulling the typical 'dirty street movies'. I am not saying that grappling on the ground is totally ineffective, I am saying that using a move for the ring, is harder to pull off outside the ring. My comment was based on Lee vs (insert MMA fighter here)who might know BJJ or some other ground style. I probably shouldn't have used the word "easy", because the outcome depends on the fighters and environment.

Do you study a martial art? If so which one?

[Prince_James]

Chatha:

He has admitted he has never fought a single match and that he can't fight. Jet Li, sadly, is a pussy outside of a great athlete.

[Prince_James]

Spidergoat:

Well that's cool, but I'd like to see him fight for real before I judge him. I mean, if it is legit, he does sound like a bad ass, but so often it isn't as grandiose as the stories are.

If you ever get a chance to see him in action, tell us.

[Prince_James]

fLux:

Whereas I can see what you're talking about in regards to going on a fighting-rampage instead of giving the "clean, crisp hits" which you speak of, one also has to remember that rarely can one land said crisp hits in a real fight. That is to say, the pace of real fighting does not allow one fight as cleanly as one would in the dojo or gym.

Gung Fu movies especially give the belief thjat attacks are super efficient. This isn't the case. Even when you see Bruce Lee spar, you see that it is far less about super efficiency and more about hitting the guy.

[phlogistician]

phlogistician:

Yes, the ground is often where a fight is won, or lost, but it is not always the case. However, I am not talking about ground 'fighting' I am specifying on ground -grappling-. If you train in Brazilian Jui Jutsu and attempt an arm bar against someone who is violently shaking and ripping their arms in and out of of the way, it is going to be extremely difficult to find a way to execute the move. Training in something like BJJ doesn't always prepare you for someone who is biting your flesh and pulling the typical 'dirty street movies'. I am not saying that grappling on the ground is totally ineffective, I am saying that using a move for the ring, is harder to pull off outside the ring. My comment was based on Lee vs (insert MMA fighter here)who might know BJJ or some other ground style. I probably shouldn't have used the word "easy", because the outcome depends on the fighters and environment.

Do you study a martial art? If so which one?

I keep hearing this 'Bruce Lee would win because he would bite and other MMA fighters fight by rules' thing, and also it's raised in streetfight discussions, but I've hardly ever heard of it happening, you have to have subdued your opponent to get a bite in, or be subdued, and bite what is across your face, most people stop fighting in these situations, unless it's life or death.

On the arm bar thing, on the ground, you can't just rip your arms around, you use them for support and movement and attacks, not random flailing, and a good ground fighter works from contact, starting at the shoulder, and railing down the arm to pin it, if it's moving. Of course moves are harder to use in real situations than in the ring, that's a given, but the rality of the street is the same for both fighters, no style, even Lee's has an advantage.

My background is Judo, Jiu Jitsu, and Karate, btw. Karate sucks, I didn't study it for long.

[Prince_James]

What karate did you study?