Disregard the above poll, there is an error. Christians believe that "hell" is a temporary holding pen for those who have not accepted Jesus as their personal savior and/or lived a sinful life not acceptable enough to God for him to allow them into heaven. These "rejected" souls are then directed either to purgatory for a second chance at gaining entry to heaven, or to the even worse temporary prison or holding pen, which we call "hell." Here they will be greeted personally by Satan, and welcomed into their new home. Satan will explain the rules of hell to them and will laugh at them in their face. (Okay, I made this paragraph up). Then they are all alone. They will be in an extremely hot, desert setting with flames all around them. They will still retain some kind of bodily form since they couldn't find it in themselves to detach from that body while on earth. So they will feel all the torture, torment, and heat of hell and will be extremely thirsty without the possibility of quenching that thrist. The prisoners will stay in this horrifying realm until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. At this point they will be judged again by God, and will be transfered to their final destination: the Lake of Fire. My question is this: Can souls which have gone to hell redeem themselves while in hell and gain reentry back into heaven? In other words, can they redeem themselves somehow while in hell, and then at the Second Coming judgment can they be approved for heavenly access and avoid the Lake of Fire? Only those written in the Book of Life will gain entry to the new heaven/earth. So if someone goes to hell, can they somehow get their names back on that list while in hell or before the Second Coming? If not, what is the purpose of this judgment? If someone has been sent to hell, then why waste time judging them if you already know they are going to the Lake of Fire with no chance of redemption? Here are some other questions to consider: 1) Say an infant gets sick and dies at 1 month old. What happens to that infant? If they go to heaven, then that would be unfair since it is a free pass to heaven. That person had no chance of going to hell, and had to undergo no temptations or trials. They simply skipped the tough part. This question applies to Hinduism as well. 2) Revelations states that people who died for Christ while on earth will be the ONLY people who will be granted immunity from the Second Death, or the Lake of Fire. Does this mean that for the other 99.9999% of Christians who lived a generally pious and acceptable life and who didn't go to purgatory or hell are NOT immune to the Second Death? 3) The Book of Life represents a pass/fail type of system for gaining access into heaven and/or avoiding hell or the Lake of Fire. So is there a minimum requirement to gain access into heaven? 4) Assuming a purgatory, is the fire, torture, or punishment more intense in hell than in purgatory?
************** M*W: Yeah, those are the wonderful folks down at The Vatican who gave us christianity.
At least they didn't forget the secret exit behind Satan's throne, but you need the +4 charm of invisibility to even get close.
There is no purgatory. Hell is the holding place. Why judge them? Notice you questioned it because it was a waste of time? You haven't defined judge either. Hell/Hades just the holding place for unbelievers. You can't get out of it or the lake of fire. There is no such thing as purgatory. It would be unfair if the child went to hell. It had no understanding of evil thus no understanding of a need for saving Grace. Tune in to mine an Snakelord's debate. Scripture please. How do you get on that book? [/QUOTE] No purgatory. It was made up. Thank you, His son, ><>Warrior61<><
If Lucifer can get casted into hell, why can't he be a nice little devil and make friends with god? ahaha
************* M*W: Lucifer was the "light-bringer," and/or the planet Venus, the "Morningstar." By the same token, Jesus was the "light of the world" as a metaphor for the star in the center of our universe -- the Sun. Lucifer is also known as a star in the Constellation Serpens (but don't quote me on this). So, my question is, when Lucifer 'rebelled' against god and was cast into hell, doesn't that make it hell on Earth? The way I see it is Lucifer was a star that fell, like a meteor, nothing more.
Here is the scripture: Rev 20:4-5 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. NKJV "Whereas the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Ghost, has from the Sacred Scriptures and the ancient tradition of the Fathers taught in Councils and very recently in this Ecumenical synod (Sess. VI, cap. XXX; Sess. XXII cap.ii, iii) that there is a purgatory, and that the souls therein are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but principally by the acceptable Sacrifice of the Altar; the Holy Synod enjoins on the Bishops that they diligently endeavor to have the sound doctrine of the Fathers in Councils regarding purgatory everywhere taught and preached, held and believed by the faithful" (Denzinger, "Enchiridon", 983). You say it was made up. They say it was inspired by the Holy Ghost. One of you is wrong. So can people just make up something and base a whole religion around it? Christians believe Mohammud "made up" the hundreds of visions he had of Gabriel. And now 21% of world is vigilantly following this "hoax." If Christians are correct, and Mohammads visions were false, then that would be proof that entire religions can be started from pure lies and BS. Interesting...
That doesn't mean the ones who didn't have part in the first ressurection don't have victory over a second death. Think about it. It isn't ruling them out. No scriptural evidence of purgatory. Notice there is none in the little exert above. Yes. Lies can do lots of things. Ever heard of Big Foot? Well we can't necessarly agree can we. Like you said someone has to be wrong. Very good. Thank you, His son, ><>Warrior61<><
************* M*W: Yes, it is possible to get rid of the nagging symptoms caused by an irrational belief in christianity. If you, or someone you know, is a victim of the harsh realities of christianity, help is available. Get rid of your silent suffering, and set your mind at ease and call once and for all. Operators are standing by, so call 1-800-ATHEISM, and stop your suffering. Or check-out our web site to learn about the horrible disease of christianity at www.sciforums.com. You're not alone!
M*W your comments are amusing Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I don't know what Atheism mean to you here, but it's no more rational than Theism ... Agnosticism is the right stance! so make sure to not call every irreligious person atheist! atheists are just an enthusiastic part of the communion but not all!
I'll give the elaboration, but in a new thread so I don't change the subject of this one Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=1293211#post1293211
Well you probably have already read my beliefs on the existence of purgatory Nds so i will not elaborate. It is a catholic belief not a Christian one. satan is not in Hell, satan has never been in Hell, satan will never be in Hell. The belief that satan is some kind of king of hell has more to do with the catholic churches mixing pagan traditions with the Faith of Jesus. satan is here on earth, he will be going to the Lake of fire, Directly to the lake of fire he will not pass "go" and he will not spend time in hell with the others. Well Hell is not really described in such detail in the bible. Only that it is hot. I guess your description again has more to do with catholic mixing in pagan traditions than what the bible actually reveals. No. they will stay there until Jesus has ruled on earth for 1000 years and satan launches his final rebellion against Jesus on earth. Not if they have rejected the Messiah Jesus. The Book of life is only opened at the final Judgement. So we will not find out till then who's names are written in it will we. What is time in Gods time? Will the last judgement take 1000 years but be as a twinkling of an eye in universal time? Is there any relationship between universal time and heaven time? I suppose God must reveal all to everyone and the last judgement is a good time to do that. Everyone should know why shouldn't they? Everyone should have their day in court. Everyone should truly understand why everyone else is heading for the eternal destination they are going to. It's neat, Its complete, It's tidy. Infants are innocent. Therefore they have not come to the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This is was disqualified Adam and Eve from paradise and what makes us need the Messiah Jesus for the atonement of our sins. Infants do not need Jesus. No one lives a life without sin. Therefore the only way to have eternity with God is to have whatever sin one has done covered or atoned for. The only atonment that covers the sins of men is that granted by the Messiah Jesus to those who believe Jesus. It does not matter if one has fallen short of perfection a little or if one has fallen short of perfection by a lot. Falling short of perfection disqualifys one from existing with perfection in eternity. So weather someone needs to be forgiven a little or someone needs to be forgivne a lot, we all still need to be forgiven. Yes belief in the atoning work of the Messiah Jesus. Already answered twice today. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I will not bore you with another repition. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Ohh i just read this Nds and i cannot help myself i have to reply lol Humm The book of Denzinger hey?? Funny thing i cannot find that book in my bible Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! True. They are wrong. Oh to be effective what they do is get the truth and weave lies into it, Just enough truth for it to be sweet in their mouths but enough lies to turn sour in their guts. Made up... No i do not make such a claim. I think he did see an angel and that angel probably did tell muhammed he was Gabriel. And that angel probably did give him a lot of "knowledge" but that knowledge was to deceive those who hate the love of the truth of Jesus. islam is just a tool of satan. a very successful tool to deceive millions and bring them to destruction. Ahhhh that’s for you to decide. Read what Jesus said, Read what muhammed said, read whatever source claiming to be the word of God you like and then decide for yourself. If you embrace what is evil and accept a lie then by your own will you will condemn yourself and if you embrace what is good and accept the will of God then you will justify Gods forgiveness upon you. You will accept what you will accept. And in the end you will go where you will go. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
