The manners of Jesus Christ

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Hani, Feb 2, 2007.

  1. Hani Registered Senior Member

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    271
    I have always find it weird that relegious missionaries like to have people read their holy books.

    In my view, the best thing to do to drive somebody away from a religion is to have him read the holy book of that religion!

    and this is true for the Bible. I had a much better image of Jesus before I read the new testemant! and here are some of the observations I came to after reading the Gospel named Matthew:

    Says Mr.Christ:
    (5:22)
    22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    This is really high manners ...but as we go:

    Jesus Christ calls his disciples, who left everything and followed him, "faithless" and "perverse"
    (17:17)
    17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

    Jesus Christ calls for loving your enemy and shows his love of his own
    (12:38)
    38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
    39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

    Jesus Christ cusses and swears
    (12:34)
    34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things?

    (23:33)
    33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    (15:7)
    7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

    (23:13)
    13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

    (23:15)
    15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
    (23:27)
    27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

    Jesus Christ explains religion to the scribes in his way
    (23:16)
    16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
    17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
    18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
    19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
    20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
    21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
    22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

    Jesus Christ gives his disciples a pearl of wisdom in dealing with people
    (7:6)
    6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

    Jesus Christ refuses revenge and calls for accepting harm with open arms
    (5:38)
    38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
    39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
    40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
    41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
    42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

    Jesus Christ vows Judas with an unimaginable revenge
    (26:24)
    24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
    25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

    Jesus Christ retaliates at a tree
    (21:18)
    18 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
    19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

    Jesus Christ promises the scribes and Pharisees punishment and promises them of ruining their temple
    (23:35)
    35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
    36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
    38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

    Jesus Christ promises the cities with punishment one by one and by their names
    (11:20)
    20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
    21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
    22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
    23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
    24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

    Jesus Christ rejects judging others
    (7:1)
    7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
    2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
    3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
    4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
    5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

    Jesus Christ judges the scribes and Pharisees and condemns them
    (23:1)
    1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
    2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
    3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
    4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
    5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
    6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
    7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
    8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

    Jesus Christ attacks the scribes and Pharisees and accuses them with corruption
    (23:25)
    25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
    26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

    Jesus' respect of his mother, and of his brothers who we don't know where they have come out from
    (12:46)
    46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
    47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
    48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
    49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
    50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

    Jesus Christ can cure people but he racially discriminates
    (15:21)
    21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
    22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
    23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
    24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
    26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
    27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
    28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

    The disciples suggest rescuing the woman so they could get rid of her cry
    23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

    Jesus reckons Jews sons of god and others dogs
    26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

    Jesus excludes the Roman masters of his racial classing and hurries to their rescue and admires their faith which he has not witnessed anything like in his entire life
    (8:5)
    5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
    6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
    7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
    8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
    9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
    10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2007
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  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I really don't see anything unexplainable there. You can find much worse in the OT. Let them who have eyes see!
     
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  5. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    He is saying he will accept anyone as a student. This is consistent with Jesus' concern for the dregs of society, the prostitutes and sinners.
    The truly devoted don't need signs. What's wrong with that? Jesus wasn't a supernatural being.
    Not that bad. He was irreverant, not rude.
     
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  7. Hani Registered Senior Member

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    well, to me, I understand why they slaughtered him... it was certainly because of his mouth...

    still he didn't deserve it...
     
  8. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Who, the Romans? They slaughtered alot of people, especially those thought of as rebels.
     
  9. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    2,478
    Then there was that whole bit about the moneychangers in the temple. It's my understanding that all public buildings served more than one purpose in cities like that due to crowding and practicality. When the temple's not in use, it's just taking up space. May as well get some good out of it. And wasn't he reported to have magically torched a fig tree for not providing him fruit in the off-season? God Junior had quite a temper. Uptight, arrogant, sweet criminy! Why would anyone base a faith around someone they wouldn't put up with at work?
     
  10. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: Hani, was quoting all this scripture really necessary to make your point?
     
  11. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    961
    "I have always find it weird that relegious missionaries like to have people read their holy books.
    In my view, the best thing to do to drive somebody away from a religion is to have him read the holy book of that religion!"

    Early missionary stations in Africa were formed by techniques and technological advances - land was fenced off to protect crops, the plough was used, a forge set up, then a store...slowly men were encouraged to give up the semi-nomadic lifestyle and toil in the fields instead. Nomads to agrarians - natural cycles of time to man-made linear time.
    Then the text appeared....
     
  12. swivel Sci-Fi Author Valued Senior Member

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    2,494
    Think of how many cultures have been obliterated by these missionaries over the years!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  13. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

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    3,058
    He doesn't call all other people than the disciples for dogs. He say that we should be careful of whom we speak with so that not our words are being tramped on.

    Also, Jesus has natural authority to call the people of that age (and this) unfaithful, since this is what this generation is. When the Son of Man comes, will He find any faith left on earth?

    The problem, I think, is that you haven't found the tone in His voice when He say those things, you haven't found what He reffers to, or what He means. The Bible has a overtone of poetry, if you find that overtone then you will see what He means with what He says. Perhaps you are too impatient?

    Even the atheists here don't find those words offending. Do you see what I mean? The problem is in your interpretation, if only the atheist here would understand that too.
     
  14. Hani Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    271
    I wanted to put that temple thing but he didn't use obvious vulgarity (which was my point) while kicking those people out, he just called them thieves...

    Really this is a valid question... what is the kind of the process that has taken place and made this man be known as calm and kind person?!
    he was just about walking down the streets quarreling people and threatning them with his father.

    Indeed it was necessary, not all people know the Bible by heart; aren't there Asians and Jews and Muslims and others who might read this?!

    dear Cyperium:

    the most thing I hate is to hurt the feelings of believers (escpecially Christians), I don't have anything to offer to them and they are happy, so let them be.

    but you know the desire to act mischievously that comes to people sometimes.
     
  15. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: Asians, Jews, Muslims and atheists, know the bible better than the christians do, and I seriously doubt that anyone read the quotations. It doesn't really matter if Jesus was ill-mannered or not. He was a storybook character -- not a real person.
     
  16. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    ALL Asians, Jews, Muslims and atheists know the bible better than ALL Christians??

    Interesting statement, M*W, don't suppose ya' have any evidence to back that up, do you?

    Baron Max
     
  17. heliocentric Registered Senior Member

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    1,117
    I have a really really good way of explaining all this: Jesus was a fallible human being just like the rest of us, had his good days, had his bad days etc.
     
  18. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    2,046
    Yes that is true He was a human being.
    That human flesh was the veil that hid the presence of God from plain view, like the badger skins of the temple in the wilderness that veiled the Shekinnah Glory in the Holiest of Holies.
    He was God....who came to be tempted, tried, and then overcame the prison that is this spiritual pest house we call "human flesh".

    That fact was hidden from most in that day, as it still is today.
    He did a good job of that....intentionally.


    Who would you have chosen as a "man from god" in that day.?

    The kindly old priest who kissed the babies, married the young, and buried the dead dressed in brightly colored flowing silk robes....walking by the law so close you couldn't put a finger on their lives.

    Or

    Jesus, dressed like a commoner, living on the streets, associating with known criminals, prostitutes, healing on the Sabbath.
    He banded ropes together and in a violent rage overthrew the money tables in the temple, and ran all the priests out and shut the whole thing down, saying they were a "den of thieves."?

    Which one to the natural eye, by reason and logic, would you chose as the "man of God"?

    The priests looked the part more than Jesus.
    But He was the Word of God in flesh.
    The difference was...
    "By their fruits you shall know them"
    And their fruits are their teachings.
    The Word is the test.
    Thats how you separate them, not by outward appearance.
    He came to separate out those who have a "love of the truth", from those who do not.

    Was Jesus this larger than life?
    Was he some unreal kindly white robed perfection in Human flesh?.
    No.

    He was a man, with the fullness of God's Spirit in Him.
    He was sinless yes, but sin is not what you have been led to believe.
    Sin is unbelief.
    Unbelief in the whole Word of God.

    He was that Word, and lived it and knew it as it was supposed to be known.

    Not as the false religious traditions had interpreted It to the people, making The Word of none effect, but as It was meant to be lived in the truth of Spirit.
    The Word of God written on the tables of flesh....in the heart of man.

    Thats how he was sinless.

    In a way that would throw some off, if they were looking for fault.

    They wouldn't find It....unless they approached Him with the right attitude.
    "Hearing, they do not hear....Seeing they do not see....
    A people who's heart is waxed cold
    "..... with sin, not looking for God, but looking for fault, to them He gave plenty of fault to find.
    On purpose.
    He did it that way because if they knew who He really was.....they would be converted and He would have to heal them.

    But in their heart, they had no love of God....just the things God could give them.
    The miracles, or the fishes and the loaves.....or the promises of immortality and paradise perhaps.
    He had to separate them.

    If they were looking for God, He was there to be found too....but hidden behind the veil of the badger skin..... of His human flesh.
    Of yours and mine also, if it be found we be led of the Spirit in this day.

    He was the first born of many brethren, the only "begotton" of the Father, yes, but that is referring to the manner of His birth.
    Through Him, many Sons will come to fruition.....
    For He is the beginning of the creation of God.

    He overcame this world and it's spiritual hierarchies of flesh, and sat down on His Father's throne.
    He offers you who would do the same and overcome in this day the opportunity to sit down with Him in His throne.

    "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcome, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

    He still is the same.
    Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

    Did the Son of Man find faith when He came in this day....?
    That is the real question, not "will" He, but "did" He.
    Does anyone else here understand what I mean by this?

    And Hani....

    Jesus was not racially discriminating.
    He was separating dispensations.
    That was the day of the Jews "Visitation" which they turned down.
    Notice how His words to the woman were similar to the words he used to the Roman Centurion.
    "Never have I seen so great a faith in all Israel"....
    He was sent to the Jews after approximately two thousand years had passed from the promise given to Abraham.
    He was the "spiritual" fulfillment of that promised seed that Isaac typed in the natural....a promised son, born of a miracle.

    When the Gentiles.....which is everyone except the Jews, began to hear of His fame and desire to see Him..."Sirs, we would see Jesus"....
    He realized it was time to go.
    He was not sent to them at that time.

    He was sent to them in this day at this time.
    At the end of the Gentiles dispensation.
    After the same two thousand years.....and they as a whole reject Him also.
    But He does find a few..."My sheep hear my Voice".
    A Shout, a Voice, and the Trump of God.
    This is the day of the Gentiles' "Visitation".

    The revealing of the Son of Man.
    And like the Jews did then.....the organized "Christian" religions of this day have rejected Him also.
    For the same reasons.

    "Hearing, they do not hear....Seeing they do not see....
    A people who's heart is waxed cold
    ".....

    Jesus was not cursing or swearing for no reason.
    He was accurately calling them what they really were....
    A generation of vipers....."serpents".
    That is humanity.
    Didn't you know that?
    That is what he came in the flesh to overcome for us, and show us the way to do the same.
    Living by faith, and not walking in the flesh.

    The serpents meat has always been the dust....of which humanity is made remember?
    God so loved the world He gave His only begotton Son....Yes, but He came not to bring peace, but a Sword remember that also.....
    The Sword of the Spirit.
    It shall separate out of the land those that have not a love of the truth from those who do.
    He did not come here and die in vain.
    His Word will not return to Him void.
    It will accomplish that which It was purposed to do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2007
  19. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: I'll let the adherents in question answer this for you.
     
  20. Hani Registered Senior Member

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    271
    About Jesus' fictionality (should that apostrophe be there or not? :~I ), as much as tempting this idea is, I find no reason to presume that he didn't exist…

    It was very normal (and predicted) that he wouldn't be mentioned by historians, or that no traces of him be found, because there wasn't really anything to be mentioned!

    He was just one guy, like dozens others, who preached and gathered followers, and who supposedly* claimed divinity, and he was killed in a very short time after he started his mission, he was so young when he was killed and it doesn't appear that he had many followers.

    So it was very normal for him to be neglected because there wasn't really something about him that deserved to be particularly noticed or mentioned. Jesus had nothing to do with Christianity; it was invented after he was dead, in a different time and a different epoch.

    So why we accept many stories that are much less credible and refuse this particular one? … Or at least why would we assume that all those accounts had no bases at all and it was just a big conspiracy? I don't believe in conspiracies and I think that there was someone named Jesus, based on the multiple accounts of him (I mean the Bible, at least), and I think that much of his story seems reasonable and historically credible.


    *(I don't believe he really did, he was just a mystic, there were several examples of mystics who claimed divinity in Islamic history, but they didn't really mean it, they meant something close to Pantheism, and they were executed just as Jesus was. Jesus was just an audacious Jewish preacher).


    TheVisitor:

    I respect you and respect what you say. But faith is not something that I can acquire by will
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2007
  21. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you speak in riddles? In my view it wasn't necessary, and if you don't turn to Christians, then who do you turn to? Why spread fire where there is fire allready? Do you really need reinforcements on a science forum? Why do you think that some (or many) atheists won't find much of what you said offending (or even supporting their case)?

    And if you seek to reinforce what is not known before, then how to know that you are telling the truth? Do you seek those that just don't care?

    ?
     
  22. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    3,782
    What a divisive and malicious person you are Hani. You get joy out of seeking to provoke hatred for Jesus by non-jews by twisting His word and bearing false witness against Him. You know i shudder when i see such an attitude openly expressed.

    Proverbs 26
    18 Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death,
    19 Is the man who deceives his neighbor,
    And says, “I was only joking!”

    Woe to you for twisting the Word of Jesus for fun. Woe to you for taking delight in evil.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  23. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    2,046
    Thank you very much for your kind and generous words.

    It is true that faith is a gift of God, the very basis of the foundation of our spiritual journey.
    The other virtues are laid down upon that foundation as victories gained through overcoming adversity.

    I can't possibly know what you have gone through, or what you believe, but I did ask for something that might help you realize the faith you have already been given.
    And this came to mind.

    It is your character, that you will take with you in the end.

    Blue skies and sunny weather are not always signs of God's approval.
    He brings adversity and affliction to those He loves many times so that they may be willing to let go of this world and realize what is the real treasure to be found in this life.

    "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous therefore and repent."
    That means.......Change your mind. Turn around.

    This helped me, perhaps it may help you also.

    " My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of Him; For whom the Lord loveth, He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth.
    If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the Father chasteneth not?
    But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
    Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
    For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness.
    Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby."
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2007

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