Changes in entropy or free energy?

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Kumar, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    Hello,

    The above quote indicates changes in entropy or free energy in all processes.

    Does it indicate that such changes in entropy or free energy will happen in all of our activities and changes in nature?

    Will such changes in entropy or free energy due to any activity by any object, will can be related to that object in any manner?

    To maintain a balance, whether there can be a natural tendancy of reversal of such changes in entropy or free energy?

    Best wishes.
     
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  3. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

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    ENTROPY.... is the loss.... the loss in all interactions...

    lost... as heat... as minute motions on electons on other atoms....

    its all about electrons.....

    if one electron flew threw a gas.... its motions.. passage, would cause minor motions of electrons in the gas atoms it passes by...

    these slight motions.. due to repulsion... is the loss.....
    the same loss occurs with photon obsorbtion....

    when a photon is obsorbed.... it is obsorbed by electrons.. who then.. gains a larger wider orbit.... this increase in orbit.. repels any other eletrons in the area... cAUSing those other atoms electrons to gain a slight motion... a little tiny push...

    that tiny push... is the loss..

    if you throw a ball as a wall... and it bounces back... it will come back with less energy than it went with... because the collision of the ball caused both a sound wave, and friction... and so heat... alot of loss.

    in all interactions... its never 100%... its always less.


    the only reactions which can be 100%.. are those meant to generate heat.

    in which case... all the energy is lost....


    fun fun.

    -MT
     
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  5. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

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    Dark Matter.... Hahahaha
     
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  7. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    Means, input energy and output energy to any atoms/molecules can be different?
     
  8. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    Any activity or any interaction may be exothermic or endothermic which can effect entropy of universe. Does it mean that, we while doing any activity or on any interaction, disturb whole universe?

     
  9. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

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    NO....

    ENDOTHERMIC... if i am remembering correctly.. means if we have a fluid solutioN of two chemicals... at a given temp... room temp.. earth temp.

    endo means we need to add energy to the solution to cause the reaction...


    exo thermic... means if we mix these two ingredients in a solution they automatically react and give off alot of heat... generate heat.

    none of which has to do with entropy.


    entropy takes place in every reaction....

    i.e.. when the two molecules.. like 2h2 and o2 combine.. to form h2o...
    the reaction.... releases energy... heat.

    but, the entropy... was all in the fact that we had to make the stuff.
    we had to stand, breath and do the work...
    we had to carry out the experiment.. cause the reaction....

    to boil water, we do alot more than just add heat to water.. we move water to pan.. pan to fire... and we have fire...

    all of which are in-effiecient means to energy conversion...


    all the latent heat... heat of muscles.. heat of automobiles.. heat that ends up heating the air....

    heated air... rising... causing winds...
    and heating the air... maintaining an overall average temp for the atmosphere....

    that temp.... is equivalant .. and is.. emitted as photon heat...

    and lost to the depths of space...

    if your room is dirty... entropy is high...

    an ordered system has become disordered.

    it requires work to bring order from disorder.

    doing work... generates heat and loss... entropy always goes up.

    your room is cleaned.. and your local room entropy is low.
    but the cosmos.... the cosmos takes the hit.

    -MT
     
  10. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

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    2,650
    entropy... is just the loss of the universe.... in all reactions of concerning photons... and electrons in atoms...
    these reactions all lend themselves to convient losses. as heat...

    photons... always decay into lower energy photons, over a period of seconds as they bounce back and force around your room right now.....

    they bounce around.. and with each bounce obsorbtion and emission...
    that one photon... gets smaller and smaller... meaning of a lower and lower frequency....

    lower... so that light becomes heat... heat becomes microwave... etc....

    until it is lost... gone.. obsorbed and transformed.

    it because in every reaction... of atoms... some amount of energy is lost due to other atoms... or by emission of particles... as with nuclear decay.

    naturally... atoms... are all breaking down...... becoming smaller.... literally.

    everything naturally breaks down... in one direction...----> entropy.

    THE entropy of the universe.. always goes up.

    AND ITS A GOOD THING.

    -MT
     
  11. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

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    2,650
    im sorry... yes... ive seen it common that they often refer to the entropy of given systems... which can go up and down... in regards to various reactions... but the specifics elude me.
    -MT
     
  12. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    How endothermic and exothermic reactions have nothing to do with entropy?

    When a reaction takes heat or release heat in atmosphere, will it not effect entropy?

    We radiate heat from body(which may be a product of many reactions/activities/motions/processes in our body) or take heat from atmosphere, will it not effect entropy or free energy of universe?
     
  13. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

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    2,650
    i think it comes down to systems...

    a jar of chemicals can have an increase of entropy due to reactions...
    just as your room gets messy over time with use....

    if you clean up... what naturally happenned... it requires work.

    to change chemical reactions which naturally occured... requires input energy.
    to clean a room... requires input energy.

    in both processes... we had poor efficiency.

    in cleaning the room... we burned alot of calories... much more than needed to actually move the masses into proper places.

    in an endothermic reaction.. we may need to add alot of calories to a pot of water to get it to boil to cause a reaction, which in it self... does not store as much energy as we put in to cause it...

    i.e... always a net loss.


    -MT
     
  14. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    When we boil water, we put lot of calories. But much heat goes into atmosphere. When water cool down, all heat goes into atmosphere. Whether putting lot of energy and heat goes into air is same or different. How it will impact entropy of universe?

    We speak, think, get emotions, eat food, excercise or sleep. Whether all our daily activities effect entropy of universe as we may be radiating more or less heat by doing such activities?
     
  15. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

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    entropy....

    when entropy is low.... your room is clean.
    when entropy increases... so does the mess in your room.


    if you have a box with marbles in it..

    if you have them all neatly in one corner.. lined up. entropy is low.
    but shake the box.. and they all go flying.. entropy rises.


    the universe... always.. becomes more pieces... spreading out.

    not Alot of small pices... organising themselves neatly into ordered positions.

    see..

    infact... most of big bang theory... violates the law of entropy.

    -MT
     
  16. Farsight

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    I think a nice way to get a grasp of entropy is to replace it with the word sameness.
     
  17. John Connellan Valued Senior Member

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    I don't like your style of writing Mosheh Thezion :bugeye:
     
  18. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    How radiated heat from our body can effect entropy and free energy?
     
  19. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    How temperature from the Big Bang to today's temperature on earth is changed?
     
  20. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    Can it be thought that all substances are created by conversion of heat into matter or potential energy? As such, can gravity be dependant on conversion and changes of heat to substances?

    Whether today's temperature on earth means that most heat at big bang is converted into substances?
     
  21. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

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    big bang..... says exactly what you just said...
    photon heat.. into sub particles.. and then matter.

    personnaly... i say thats bull shit.


    dont get confused.


    no matter how the universe started... the temp on earth... has nothing to do with anything but the earth... and our sun.
    our distance from the sun... its size and temp... our orbit rate, our spin rate... and the angle of our axis to that sun....
    then.. what our planet is made out of...

    what gases... liguids.. and how much of each??? etc.

    these add up to the temp on earth.... which would be the result of the formation of earth... somehow..

    the entire idea...

    idea... that heat could become mass.... is the REVERSE OF ENTROPY.


    remmeber.. entropy... is a universal arrow.. it points one way...

    and thats break down... spreading and distribution...
    of all photons... literally... physically.. and at each point of interaction as obsorbtion and emission....

    photons... in matter... breakdown.... or decay.. loose energy.. due to the behavior of the electrons they interact with...

    i.e.. electrons can repel each other... and so.. can transfer energy.

    this energy transfer... is the source of all loss.


    of course... this loss.. is what keeps us alive as warm blooded animals...
    this loss... gives us fire...

    this loss... results in pv=nrt.... which has changed the world.

    entropy... always says... matter naturally.. breaks down.
    breaks down into smaller pieces.... and then into pions....

    and pions can become photons....

    and photons.. decay by interacting with electrons... and or...
    are simple streached out into radio and then electro stataic fields in the far depths of distant space.

    entropy... is an un-disputable law of science... NO ONE WILL DENY IT.

    and yet... people choose to believe that the universe began as photons which became matter... evenly spread out in space...

    which then... due to gravity... which they call curved space, caused all the atoms to start collecting into neat little piles... called galaxys...
    even though... big bang is founded on AN expanding space...? DAH.

    ANYWAY... and that these gas clouds... then some how picked up spins, and collapsed..into neatly organized and spaced stars...

    which, then became an expanding galactic cloud... with spreading... spreading.. arms... (not colapsing)

    i.e...

    big bang... for it to be true....

    the universe would of had to of worked backwards.... reverse entropy. and then....

    sometime.. somewhere... began.. working in this entropy direction...


    which is nonsense.

    -MT
     
  22. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    "Chaos Theory; the theory of non-linear functions, such that small differences in the input of the function can result in large and unpredictable differences in the output.

    Chaos in physics is often considered analogous to thermodynamic entropy.

    In biology chaos theory can explain how small random events may affect large ecosystems in an unpredictable way."

    snips from wikipedia "

    What about Chaos Theory?
     
  23. Janus58 Valued Senior Member

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    2,394
    Where does that radiated heat come from? It comes from releasing the free energy stored in the food we eat. That food ultimately got its store of free energy from Sunlight. The Sun, to provide the energy stroed by the food uses up its store of hydrogen. which increases the entropy of the Sun.
     

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