01-30-07, 09:50 PM #1
Changes in entropy or free energy?A chemical reaction invariably absorbs or releases heat or light. According to chemical thermodynamics a chemical transformation is possible only if so-called free energy decreases. The concept of free energy is a synthesis of energy and entropy. Free energy is a useful concept in chemistry, because energy considerations alone are not sufficient to decide the possibility of a chemical reaction.
According to the second law of thermodynamics, the entropy of the universe must increase in all processes (including chemical processes), and energy is transformed from one form to another (including from heat to any other form) so long as the second law is not violated. For example, a gas may expand and thus allow some of its heat to do work, but this is only possible because the net entropy of the universe increases due to the gas expansion, more than it decreases due to the disappearance of heat.
The above quote indicates changes in entropy or free energy in all processes.
Does it indicate that such changes in entropy or free energy will happen in all of our activities and changes in nature?
Will such changes in entropy or free energy due to any activity by any object, will can be related to that object in any manner?
To maintain a balance, whether there can be a natural tendancy of reversal of such changes in entropy or free energy?
01-30-07, 10:13 PM #2
ENTROPY.... is the loss.... the loss in all interactions...
lost... as heat... as minute motions on electons on other atoms....
its all about electrons.....
if one electron flew threw a gas.... its motions.. passage, would cause minor motions of electrons in the gas atoms it passes by...
these slight motions.. due to repulsion... is the loss.....
the same loss occurs with photon obsorbtion....
when a photon is obsorbed.... it is obsorbed by electrons.. who then.. gains a larger wider orbit.... this increase in orbit.. repels any other eletrons in the area... cAUSing those other atoms electrons to gain a slight motion... a little tiny push...
that tiny push... is the loss..
if you throw a ball as a wall... and it bounces back... it will come back with less energy than it went with... because the collision of the ball caused both a sound wave, and friction... and so heat... alot of loss.
in all interactions... its never 100%... its always less.
the only reactions which can be 100%.. are those meant to generate heat.
in which case... all the energy is lost....
01-30-07, 10:14 PM #3
01-31-07, 12:26 AM #4
01-31-07, 02:10 AM #5
Any activity or any interaction may be exothermic or endothermic which can effect entropy of universe. Does it mean that, we while doing any activity or on any interaction, disturb whole universe?
In thermodynamics, a thermodynamic system is said to be in thermodynamic equilibrium when it is in thermal equilibrium, mechanical equilibrium, and chemical equilibrium. The local state of a system at thermodynamic equilibrium is determined by the values of its intensive parameters, as pressure, temperature, etc. ..
It is useful to distinguish between global and local thermodynamic equilibrium. In thermodynamics, exchanges within a system and between the system and the outside are controlled by intensive parameters. As an example, temperature controls heat exchanges. Global thermodynamic equilibrium (GTE) means that those intensive parameters are homogeneous throughout the whole system, while local thermodynamic equilibrium (LTE) means that those intensive parameters are varying in space and time, but are varying so slowly that for any point, one can assume thermodynamic equilibrium in some neighborhood about that point..
Local thermodynamic equilibrium is not a stable state, unless it is maintained by exchanges between the system and the outside. For example, it could be maintained inside the glass of water by regularly adding ice into it in order to compensate for the melting.
01-31-07, 02:27 AM #6
ENDOTHERMIC... if i am remembering correctly.. means if we have a fluid solutioN of two chemicals... at a given temp... room temp.. earth temp.
endo means we need to add energy to the solution to cause the reaction...
exo thermic... means if we mix these two ingredients in a solution they automatically react and give off alot of heat... generate heat.
none of which has to do with entropy.
entropy takes place in every reaction....
i.e.. when the two molecules.. like 2h2 and o2 combine.. to form h2o...
the reaction.... releases energy... heat.
but, the entropy... was all in the fact that we had to make the stuff.
we had to stand, breath and do the work...
we had to carry out the experiment.. cause the reaction....
to boil water, we do alot more than just add heat to water.. we move water to pan.. pan to fire... and we have fire...
all of which are in-effiecient means to energy conversion...
all the latent heat... heat of muscles.. heat of automobiles.. heat that ends up heating the air....
heated air... rising... causing winds...
and heating the air... maintaining an overall average temp for the atmosphere....
that temp.... is equivalant .. and is.. emitted as photon heat...
and lost to the depths of space...
if your room is dirty... entropy is high...
an ordered system has become disordered.
it requires work to bring order from disorder.
doing work... generates heat and loss... entropy always goes up.
your room is cleaned.. and your local room entropy is low.
but the cosmos.... the cosmos takes the hit.
01-31-07, 02:35 AM #7
entropy... is just the loss of the universe.... in all reactions of concerning photons... and electrons in atoms...
these reactions all lend themselves to convient losses. as heat...
photons... always decay into lower energy photons, over a period of seconds as they bounce back and force around your room right now.....
they bounce around.. and with each bounce obsorbtion and emission...
that one photon... gets smaller and smaller... meaning of a lower and lower frequency....
lower... so that light becomes heat... heat becomes microwave... etc....
until it is lost... gone.. obsorbed and transformed.
it because in every reaction... of atoms... some amount of energy is lost due to other atoms... or by emission of particles... as with nuclear decay.
naturally... atoms... are all breaking down...... becoming smaller.... literally.
everything naturally breaks down... in one direction...----> entropy.
THE entropy of the universe.. always goes up.
AND ITS A GOOD THING.
01-31-07, 02:36 AM #8
im sorry... yes... ive seen it common that they often refer to the entropy of given systems... which can go up and down... in regards to various reactions... but the specifics elude me.
01-31-07, 04:54 AM #9
How endothermic and exothermic reactions have nothing to do with entropy?
When a reaction takes heat or release heat in atmosphere, will it not effect entropy?
We radiate heat from body(which may be a product of many reactions/activities/motions/processes in our body) or take heat from atmosphere, will it not effect entropy or free energy of universe?
01-31-07, 05:45 AM #10
i think it comes down to systems...
a jar of chemicals can have an increase of entropy due to reactions...
just as your room gets messy over time with use....
if you clean up... what naturally happenned... it requires work.
to change chemical reactions which naturally occured... requires input energy.
to clean a room... requires input energy.
in both processes... we had poor efficiency.
in cleaning the room... we burned alot of calories... much more than needed to actually move the masses into proper places.
in an endothermic reaction.. we may need to add alot of calories to a pot of water to get it to boil to cause a reaction, which in it self... does not store as much energy as we put in to cause it...
i.e... always a net loss.
01-31-07, 07:21 AM #11
When we boil water, we put lot of calories. But much heat goes into atmosphere. When water cool down, all heat goes into atmosphere. Whether putting lot of energy and heat goes into air is same or different. How it will impact entropy of universe?
We speak, think, get emotions, eat food, excercise or sleep. Whether all our daily activities effect entropy of universe as we may be radiating more or less heat by doing such activities?
01-31-07, 01:03 PM #12
when entropy is low.... your room is clean.
when entropy increases... so does the mess in your room.
if you have a box with marbles in it..
if you have them all neatly in one corner.. lined up. entropy is low.
but shake the box.. and they all go flying.. entropy rises.
the universe... always.. becomes more pieces... spreading out.
not Alot of small pices... organising themselves neatly into ordered positions.
infact... most of big bang theory... violates the law of entropy.
01-31-07, 04:02 PM #13
I think a nice way to get a grasp of entropy is to replace it with the word sameness.
01-31-07, 05:27 PM #14
01-31-07, 08:57 PM #15
How radiated heat from our body can effect entropy and free energy?
02-01-07, 05:07 AM #16What does heat have to do with gravity? First of all, heat has a great deal to do with a lot of things. We live in an environment where 10 degrees Celsius freezes water and absolute zero is minus 273.18 degrees Celsius. All living things that we know about live in a very small temperature segment of the total temperature range which we believe to be around 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.0 degrees Kelvin to zero or there about. You might say it is the temperature from the Big Bang to absolute zero. A mere hundred degrees out of this temperature range makes us pretty special.
Heat is described to us as a form of radiation, much like light but at a different frequency. This radiation called infrared is absorbed by objects causing them to vibrate. This vibration continues until the heat is re-radiated away from the object. When all heat is removed from an object it will be at the temperature called absolute zero. Now when an object is heated to the temperature of the big bang, the object is torn into electrons, protons and neutrons and then into quarks and strings, (to some people quarks and strings are the same thing.) that is if we consider strings the smallest possible particles. You might ask why heat does this and I can=t give you that answer. And no one else can either. But whatever heat is it effects all mass, all particles and all things no matter what state they are in, from black holes to empty space. Heat cannot be locked out and will effect the stability of mass clear down to its smallest level.
If we lower the temperature of an object to absolute zero, the electrons orbiting the nucleus of the atom still continue to orbit the nucleus. The electrons do not stop and fall into the nucleus. Freezing only takes a form of energy away from an object; it does not stop its motion. Therefore, no matter what we do to the atom it still has a fixed energy level and heating only adds to that level. This all really means that the basic energy of the atom is never lost. You might say that the atom at absolute zero is in a flat space, a space with no curvature or distortions, so the atom behaves without bothering its neighbors. You might conclude that when heat is added to a particle the particle reacts by distorting the space the particle occupies causing it to move erratically.
The exact mechanism is not important here; it is the fact that if you add heat energy to any particle in free space it will pull itself around in different directions causing it to wobble. What is important is that the heat is causing the imbalance.
02-01-07, 10:46 PM #17
Can it be thought that all substances are created by conversion of heat into matter or potential energy? As such, can gravity be dependant on conversion and changes of heat to substances?
Whether today's temperature on earth means that most heat at big bang is converted into substances?
02-02-07, 12:13 AM #18
big bang..... says exactly what you just said...
photon heat.. into sub particles.. and then matter.
personnaly... i say thats bull shit.
dont get confused.
no matter how the universe started... the temp on earth... has nothing to do with anything but the earth... and our sun.
our distance from the sun... its size and temp... our orbit rate, our spin rate... and the angle of our axis to that sun....
then.. what our planet is made out of...
what gases... liguids.. and how much of each??? etc.
these add up to the temp on earth.... which would be the result of the formation of earth... somehow..
the entire idea...
idea... that heat could become mass.... is the REVERSE OF ENTROPY.
remmeber.. entropy... is a universal arrow.. it points one way...
and thats break down... spreading and distribution...
of all photons... literally... physically.. and at each point of interaction as obsorbtion and emission....
photons... in matter... breakdown.... or decay.. loose energy.. due to the behavior of the electrons they interact with...
i.e.. electrons can repel each other... and so.. can transfer energy.
this energy transfer... is the source of all loss.
of course... this loss.. is what keeps us alive as warm blooded animals...
this loss... gives us fire...
this loss... results in pv=nrt.... which has changed the world.
entropy... always says... matter naturally.. breaks down.
breaks down into smaller pieces.... and then into pions....
and pions can become photons....
and photons.. decay by interacting with electrons... and or...
are simple streached out into radio and then electro stataic fields in the far depths of distant space.
entropy... is an un-disputable law of science... NO ONE WILL DENY IT.
and yet... people choose to believe that the universe began as photons which became matter... evenly spread out in space...
which then... due to gravity... which they call curved space, caused all the atoms to start collecting into neat little piles... called galaxys...
even though... big bang is founded on AN expanding space...? DAH.
ANYWAY... and that these gas clouds... then some how picked up spins, and collapsed..into neatly organized and spaced stars...
which, then became an expanding galactic cloud... with spreading... spreading.. arms... (not colapsing)
big bang... for it to be true....
the universe would of had to of worked backwards.... reverse entropy. and then....
sometime.. somewhere... began.. working in this entropy direction...
which is nonsense.
02-02-07, 05:08 AM #19
"Chaos Theory; the theory of non-linear functions, such that small differences in the input of the function can result in large and unpredictable differences in the output.
Chaos in physics is often considered analogous to thermodynamic entropy.
In biology chaos theory can explain how small random events may affect large ecosystems in an unpredictable way."
snips from wikipedia "
What about Chaos Theory?
02-02-07, 07:33 AM #20