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Thread: Most Iraq victims white and rural

  1. #21
    Registered Senior Member Buffalo Roam's Avatar
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    Here are stories from recognized News Agencies, that have a lot of information on the what happened to the WMD's, again I can provide supporting documentation, and what does spurious offer his opinion?

    FrontPage magazine.com :: Iraqi WMD Mystery Solved by Jamie Glazov
    On the tapes, you hear Saddam discussing the assistance of Russia and Brazil ... media that Russian Spetsnaz units moved Iraqi WMD into Syria and Lebanon . ...
    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=21489


    Ex-Official: Russia Moved Saddam's WMD
    "They were moved by Russian Spetsnaz (special forces) units out of uniform, ... The evacuation of Saddam's WMD to Syria and Lebanon "was an entirely ...
    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...023.shtml?s=lh

    Russia Moved Iraqi WMD
    "I am absolutely sure that Russian Spetsnatz units moved WMD out of Iraq ... According to Shaw, Russian units hid Saddam's arsenal inside Syria and in ...
    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...2/230625.shtml

    Russia Moved Some Iraq WMD To Syria & Lebanon » Netscape.com
    (www.intelligencesummit.org) ,"WMD Saddam bought from the Russians went was that they went to Syria and Lebanon... They were moved by Russian Spetsnaz ...
    http://news.netscape.com/story/2006/...ia-and-lebanon

    Amazon.com: Saddam's Secrets: How an Iraqi General Defied ...
    General Sada shows us how Syria went from being an enemy of Iraq to a an ... and Russian intelligence and others could have been wrong regarding the WMD and ...
    http://www.amazon.com/Saddams-Secret.../dp/1591454042

    Jack Kelly: A Syrian sidestep?
    "Saddam realized this time the Americans are coming," Mr. Sada told The New ... said Russian Spetsnaz units moved WMD to Syria and Lebanon's Bekaa Valley. ...
    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06036/649858.stm

    - toledoblade.com -
    Article published Saturday, February 4, 2006 Saddam's WMD ... said Russian Spetsnaz units moved WMD to Syria and Lebanon's Bekaa Valley. ...
    http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs...2/-1/COLUMNIST

    WorldNetDaily: Surprise, surprise! Saddam had WMDs after all
    That Russian Spetsnaz (special forces) units evidently helped Saddam's military in secreting away – mostly into Syria – WMD that had first been purchased ...
    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=49221

  2. #22
    Caput gerat lupinum GeoffP's Avatar
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    Interesting.

  3. #23
    It seems speculation is enough to make something a fact. Just like the pre-war hype. I noticed there was no actual visible evidence, just "oh it might have been WMD" so they assert it was WMD. It doesn't sound any different to most of the "evidence" we were told before the war, plenty of speculation with all the caveats removed.

    Syria and Saddam may have shared common interest but they distrusted each other deeply.

  4. #24
    Registered Senior Member Buffalo Roam's Avatar
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    So you automatically dismiss all this information out of hand? Interesting, why don't you dismiss all the information that says there were no WMD in Iraq, there are enough report like those I posted to raise doubt as to the non-existence of WMD's, We know that Saddam still had WMD's after the First Gulf War, why? because he used them, on the Kurds, the Marsh Arabs, and in a lot of small operations to punish any one who his paranoia he thought might be a threat. Please refute the first article, I don't think you can, provide site information to prove you opinion.

  5. #25
    Registered Senior Member vslayer's Avatar
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    were saddams WMD any more dangerous than yours? is the average iraqi better off now that you have taken away the (somewhat insane, bit still stable) government and left them in a civil war? did anyone except wealthy americans benefit from this war?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo Roam View Post
    why don't you dismiss all the information that says there were no WMD in Iraq
    Becasue you bombed a country and invaded it on the basis that you knew that there were WMD, that you knew where it was, that it was incontravertable. Any articles saying there were no WMD may have been wrong too, but you went to war on a "certainty".

    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo Roam View Post
    We know that Saddam still had WMD's after the First Gulf War, why? because he used them, on the Kurds
    How did Saddam use WMD on the Kurds after the First Gulf War? With a no-fly zone? Which particular events are you referring to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo Roam View Post
    Please refute the first article, I don't think you can, provide site information to prove you opinion.
    Refute what? An opinion? There was no evidence in that article. Just speculation.

  7. #27
    Humans are ONE
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    How does 'Iraq victims' become limited to the 3000 US soldiers who've died there when hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed? I don't think most of them are 'white'...
    Last edited by Zephyr; 01-05-07 at 10:57 AM.

  8. #28
    The Future's Coolest Guy cpt.scruffy's Avatar
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    i'm calling bush an asshole,
    since he can do way better things than
    dealing with terrorism in absolute.
    fuck that noise.
    like actually saving the world.

  9. #29
    The Future's Coolest Guy cpt.scruffy's Avatar
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    73
    ah im being a hippy,
    someone could easily tear me apart in politics.
    i'll go, i'm just giddy right now.

  10. #30
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Q: Why was the US certain Saddam had WMDs?

    A: Because they gave them to him.

  11. #31
    Registered Senior Member Buffalo Roam's Avatar
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    samcdkey, sorry to burst you bubble, but most of the WMD's Saddam had came from Russia, or the old Soviet Union, Saddam was armed by the Soviet Union in his war with Iran, all of his equipment was Soviet Arsenal, and do you think we would give him weapons that would end up in Soviet Intelligence Laboratories? If you can post site proof of your allegations please do, this is one big myth that we supplied Saddam with chemical weapons.

  12. #32
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    http://www.thememoryhole.org/corp/iraq-suppliers.htm

    Key

    A = nuclear weapon program
    B = biological weapon program
    C = chemical weapon program
    R = rocket program
    K = conventional weapons, military logistics, supplies at the Iraqi Ministry of Defense, and building of military plants



    USA

    1. Honeywell (R, K)

    2. Spectra Physics (K)

    3. Semetex (R)

    4. TI Coating (A, K)

    5. Unisys (A, K)

    6. Sperry Corp. (R, K)

    7. Tektronix (R, A)

    8. Rockwell (K)

    9. Leybold Vacuum Systems (A)

    10. Finnigan-MAT-US (A)

    11. Hewlett-Packard (A, R, K)

    12. Dupont (A)

    13. Eastman Kodak (R)

    14. American Type Culture Collection (B)

    15. Alcolac International (C)

    16. Consarc (A)

    17. Carl Zeiss - U.S (K)

    18. Cerberus (LTD) (A)

    19. Electronic Associates (R)

    20. International Computer Systems (A, R, K)

    21. Bechtel (K)

    22. EZ Logic Data Systems, Inc. (R)

    23. Canberra Industries Inc. (A)

    24. Axel Electronics Inc. (A)

    "In addition to these 24 companies home-based in the USA are 50 subsidiaries of foreign enterprises which conducted their arms business with Iraq from within the US. Also designated as suppliers for Iraq's arms programs (A, B, C & R) are the US Ministries of Defense, Energy, Trade and Agriculture as well as the Lawrence Livermore, Los Alamos and Sandia National Laboratories."

  13. #33
    Why wasn't Saddam convicted of using or even possessing WMD's? I guess they didn't have a case.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by spidergoat View Post
    Why wasn't Saddam convicted of using or even possessing WMD's?
    Because when they ask him in court where he got those WMD from.....

  15. #35
    Registered Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by spidergoat View Post
    Why wasn't Saddam convicted of using or even possessing WMD's? I guess they didn't have a case.
    In legal circles, and known to most anyone with a clue, the courts will often go for the sure, the certain conviction instead of the more dicey one that they might not win. Besides, Spider, wasn't death by hanging good enough for you???

    Baron Max

  16. #36
    Registered Senior Member Buffalo Roam's Avatar
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    Interesting, Sam as when I look up the weapons systems that were in Saddams Army and Air Force, the systems were mostly Soviet, Chinese, and French, so where were the American systems, and you quote a blog, quoting a left wing source, (The leftist German daily newspaper Die Tageszeitung ), with a unnamed source? As a unnamed source I can present any facts I want and would be able to find a liberal Paper to publish the most blatant bull shit I could think of. yes it is true that many of these companies did business with Saddam, but can you prove that they were providing chemical weapons, I can provide information that Saddam weapons systems were Soviet, Chinese, and French, and from what I have done already you know that I can do it, Most chemicals need delivery system tailored to the chemicals that are delivered, to use them effectively, Saddam used soviet delivery system, so for the best results he would need to use Soviet Chemicals.

    ps: Left wing in Germany usually mean Communist.

  17. #37
    No, Baron it was not. We invaded for WMD's, the least that we could expect is a court case where all the information on that subject was finally made clear. In fact, this trial could have happened. Now we might never know what really happened. I can only conclude that this was a deliberate political move.

    Saddam's execution meant there would be no accounting for his other crimes: the destruction of the marshes and the Marsh Arabs in the 1990s, the murder of tens of thousands of Shiites in the aftermath of the 1991 uprising, the killing of 8,000 members of the Barzani clan in 1983, the 1990 invasion of Kuwait, and the murder of tens of thousands in various purges over his decades in power.

    Obviously, it was never practical to try Saddam Hussein for every crime he committed. But the rush to execution actually interrupted Saddam's ongoing trial on genocide charges in connection with the 1987-1988 Anfal campaign against Iraq's Kurdish minority. That trial was scheduled to resume January 8 and would have concluded in a matter of months.

  18. #38
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo Roam View Post
    Interesting, Sam as when I look up the weapons systems that were in Saddams Army and Air Force, the systems were mostly Soviet, Chinese, and French, so where were the American systems, and you quote a blog, quoting a left wing source, (The leftist German daily newspaper Die Tageszeitung ), with a unnamed source? As a unnamed source I can present any facts I want and would be able to find a liberal Paper to publish the most blatant bull shit I could think of. yes it is true that many of these companies did business with Saddam, but can you prove that they were providing chemical weapons, I can provide information that Saddam weapons systems were Soviet, Chinese, and French, and from what I have done already you know that I can do it, Most chemicals need delivery system tailored to the chemicals that are delivered, to use them effectively, Saddam used soviet delivery system, so for the best results he would need to use Soviet Chemicals.

    ps: Left wing in Germany usually mean Communist.
    Have you heard of punctuation? paragraphs?

    Blah blah blah.
    Report: U.S. supplied the kinds of germs Iraq later used for biological weapons
    WASHINGTON (AP) — Iraq's bioweapons program that President Bush wants to eradicate got its start with help from Uncle Sam two decades ago, according to government records getting new scrutiny in light of the discussion of war against Iraq.
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...q-ushelp_x.htm
    http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2002/03/27/1195471.php
    During the Iran-Iraq war, Iraq received the lion's share of American support because at the time Iran was regarded as the greater threat to U.S. interests. According to a 1994 Senate report, private American suppliers, licensed by the U.S. Department of Commerce, exported a witch's brew of biological and chemical materials to Iraq from 1985 through 1989. Among the biological materials, which often produce slow, agonizing death, were:

    * Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.

    * Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.

    * Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs, brain, spinal cord, and heart.

    * Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major organs.

    * Clostridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria causing systemic illness.

    * Clostridium tetani, a highly toxigenic substance.


    Also on the list: Escherichia coli (E. coli), genetic materials, human and bacterial DNA, and dozens of other pathogenic biological agents. "These biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction," the Senate report stated. "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the United Nations inspectors found and removed from the Iraqi biological warfare program."

    The report noted further that U.S. exports to Iraq included the precursors to chemical-warfare agents, plans for chemical and biological warfare production facilities, and chemical-warhead filling equipment.

    The exports continued to at least November 28, 1989, despite evidence that Iraq was engaging in chemical and biological warfare against Iranians and Kurds since as early as 1984.

    The American company that provided the most biological materials to Iraq in the 1980s was American Type Culture Collection of Maryland and Virginia, which made seventy shipments of the anthrax-causing germ and other pathogenic agents, according to a 1996 Newsday story.

    Other American companies also provided Iraq with the chemical or biological compounds, or the facilities and equipment used to create the compounds for chemical and biological warfare. Among these suppliers were the following:

    * Alcolac International, a Baltimore chemical manufacturer already linked to the illegal shipment of chemicals to Iran, shipped large quantities of thiodiglycol (used to make mustard gas) as well as other chemical and biological ingredients, according to a 1989 story in The New York Times.

    * Nu Kraft Mercantile Corp. of Brooklyn (affiliated with the United Steel and Strip Corporation) also supplied Iraq with huge amounts of thiodiglycol, the Times reported.

    * Celery Corp., Charlotte, NC

    * Matrix-Churchill Corp., Cleveland, OH (regarded as a front for the Iraqi government, according to Representative Henry Gonzalez, Democrat of Texas, who quoted U.S. intelligence documents to this effect in a 1992 speech on the House floor).


    The following companies were also named as chemical and biological materials suppliers in the 1992 Senate hearings on "United States export policy toward Iraq prior to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait":

    * Mouse Master, Lilburn, GA

    * Sullaire Corp., Charlotte, NC

    * Pure Aire, Charlotte, NC

    * Posi Seal, Inc., N. Stonington, CT

    * Union Carbide, Danbury, CT

    * Evapco, Taneytown, MD

    * Gorman-Rupp, Mansfield, OH


    Additionally, several other companies were sued in connection with their activities providing Iraq with chemical or biological supplies: subsidiaries or branches of Fisher Controls International, Inc., St. Louis; Rhone-Poulenc, Inc., Princeton, NJ; Bechtel Group, Inc., San Francisco; and Lummus Crest, Inc., Bloomfield, NJ, which built one chemical plant in Iraq and, before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in August 1990, was building an ethylene facility. Ethylene is a necessary ingredient for thiodiglycol
    http://www.iranchamber.com/history/a...rming_iraq.php


    And lastly
    UN Security Council members complained on Monday that the US and Britain have refused to give UN weapons inspectors the results of their search for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.

    UN inspectors withdrew from Iraq in March, just before the US-led invasion, which overthrew Saddam Hussein's government. After the war, the US deployed its own experts and refused to allow the UN inspectors to return.
    http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...03/1210wmd.htm
    I wonder why?

  19. #39
    Registered Senior Member Buffalo Roam's Avatar
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    spidergoat, I would think from all your post that it was Saddams right a the supreme leader in Iraq, that it was his right to kill all of these people, and from what I read the U.S. was actually trying to have the execution delayed so that the Information would come out in the trial, interesting thought, isn't it, it was the Iraqi's who demanded that their Court Sentence be carried out, and that the Sentence was affirmed by their Supreme Court as legal, and they set the execution date? Interesting, very interesting.

  20. #40
    It was the Iraqis right to know the whole truth about that period.

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