The loving and devoted parent.. why do so many kill their own children for revenge?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Bells, Dec 29, 2006.

  1. Bells Staff Member

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    It was something unheard of in the past. Or at the very least, quite rare. A parent killing their child out of revenge against a spouse or partner. However today it is becoming something that seems common place.

    So why does it happen? Why do some (predominantly fathers) commit such an act against their own children? In just about each and every single case, relatives and friends always come out and say how it was so shocking because he was such a loving and devoted parent. That line appears in just about every sad story of these occurences. So how can a loving and devoted parent do something like this? They call them family anihilators. It is when one parent wishes to destroy the family and will either kill the spouse/ex, the children and themselves. Other times, they will take just the children and sometimes also commit suicide. Both mothers and fathers have committed these crimes, but of late, it appears that fathers have taken the lead.

    Sarah had left her husband after he became abusive.

    Not so long ago, there was a case in Victoria (Australia) where a father drove his car into a dam on Fathers Day, drowning his 3 sons. He was found stumbling on the road and had stated that it was an accident. However evidence later emerged that it may have been planned as he'd made a comment to a friend of his that he wanted to kill the boys on a Fathers Day so that his wife suffered for that day for the rest of her life. His friend sadly assumed he was joking and was not serious. He wanted her to pay for the divorce. Link

    Each time I read or hear about one of these stories, all that comes to mind is how and why? Are these parents mentally unbalanced? Should they be given the same level of leniency that is afforded to mothers who commit infaticide and found to be suffering from post-natal psychosis? Is it the loss of control over the family life they led in the past? Is it the ultimate need for revenge that drives them to commit the unthinkable?

    The article above goes on to list the types of killers some of these men might be. The altruistic killer who kills his children and spouse out of love and not wanting to leave them behind when he commits suicide. However it appears the most common kind is the revenge killer, who will kill the children (and possibly the spouse/ex) to make her pay for having left him and for taking what is most important from her.

    So are they insane? Or just "bad"?
     
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  3. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    I would say it's kind of natural but that's just me bells. After all my dad I think has in mind the same thing you typed, but he is not loving and devoted. SOrry i don't know i guess.
     
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  5. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Common place??? Surely you jest, right?

    What in the world gives you the idea that that crime is "common place"???

    And perhaps you gave the answer yourself ......no one heard about it because we didn't have such nosey fuckin' news reporters, plus they were more understanding and compassionate for the families so as not to splash it all over the headlines. Today, no reporter gives a big rat's ass whether they hurt the victims, the families or the friends.

    But I'm still very, very curious why you call it a "common place" crime? And if you do, what, pray tell, do you call the crime of murder which happens hundreds of times per day just in the US alone?

    No, the insanity plea works better than the "bad" plea. With the insanity plea, the perpetrator will only spend a few months in a nice institution until he can convince some pschiatrist that he's cured. Crime pays, don't it???

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    Baron Max
     
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  7. Bells Staff Member

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    That's quite interesting existabrent. A very good point.

    Is it natural for someone to kill their own offspring in a fit of revenge or desperation? In just about each case that I have heard of with such crimes, all reports tend to say how the father was so loving, even in cases where it is the mother who commits the crime, she is portrayed as a loving parent. But how can a loving parent kill their own child in such a fashion?

    I guess one could look at it and say that it is natural to love one's child, or it is for most people. Is it as equally natural to kill them as well?..

    Sadly I do not jest. Common place in the sense that it occurs a lot more now than it did in the past. Common place in that when we hear about it now, we don't seem to be as shocked anymore. We have almost become immune to such forms of crime.

    I'm not so sure. It could be. The news and newspapers always reported on crimes as henious as these. I guess nowdays, with technology being what it is, we just get to see more of each story.

    What I wonder is whether we are seeing more of these crimes now because the courts are favouring the mothers a lot more over the fathers in custody proceedings. Fathers are now seen to have a lot less rights over their children, compared to in the past when the courts were usually patriarchal, in that they awarded the father custody or gave the father more rights than they do today.

    Are they all insane though? Or are they just parents who wish to exact revenge on their ex?
     
  8. iam Banned Banned

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    In another thread, i cited the breakdown of the family as a reason for depression in this country. But looking at it another way, there might be a positive outcome or a silver lining. The dark side of family is they might manipulate you. Family is also heirarchal. Also many family members feel they 'own' you and your loyalty should be to them and secondly to soceity. This collectively can create its own problems of disparate groups and despotism-like subconscious and consciousness in society. It is the antithesis of egalitarian. And for anyone who has been in an abused family and is finally free from it. You realize your town, community, and the world is your collective extended family you must deal with. I would rather someone ask me what I need, feel, think, than someone who is in direct control over me. It will be a much better and progressive society. China's new generation is really becoming that way and trying to find themselves. I think its like crossing a threshold.
     
  9. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    I agree with that assessment.

    How does that fit with the basics of the "family unit" in Europe ...which is much older than the US ...AND... which maintains a strong unity over much of European culture?

    So you think the individual is more important than the society as a whole? And you think, for example, that society shouldn't put constraints on your actions and behavior (laws and rules, etc)? I'm most curious how you see that in actual operation without a complete breakdown of society and, worse, a slide into sheer chaos.

    Baron Max
     
  10. iam Banned Banned

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    I didn't say society shouldn't have laws to protect the 'individual'. moron. As for england, who cares. what works for peter does not always work for paul.
     
  11. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    And who or what protects the society from the individual? Is one individual more valuable than the rest of the individuals who make up that society?

    But if Peter and Paul are going to be living in close proximity, perhaps they should work out something which DOES work for both, huh? If not, ..?

    If you're in England, perhaps you'd best learn to care! There's a whole lot more people in England than just you. And if you think you're all that important to the England, consider who'd really be affected in any way if you were to die in an accident tomorrow. At best, you're nothing more than a tiny grain of sand on an endless beach ...insignificant to all but yourself.

    Baron Max
     
  12. iam Banned Banned

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    thank you for making my argument for me. we are all *individuals*. Must learn to respect individuals to get along. its a simple point. less prejudice, me versus them.
     
  13. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I have a hunch that this happens more often in western soceity. Right now the pressures of being a good parent, a good spouse, a good employee, being healthy, an honest / moral person, a good citizen, etc. are not realistic and sacrafices (intentional or unintentional are made). Something along the way is going to give and lead to failure.

    Western society is typically very intolerant of failure and tends to punish it. Ill speculate that being punished for failure resulting from unrealistic demands causes alot of pain and to alleviate the pain folks sometimes turn to revenge.

    Strictly based on observation, it seems that spousal relationship might suffer the most failures and punishment might result in the most destructive forms of revenge because of the intensity of pain it causes.
     
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    So do you think these parents are depressed when they kill their offspring and possibly their wives and themselves? Or are they just angry at their loss of control and sense of ownership over what they perceived to be their family?

    There is anger in forcing a child to call the other parent as that child is being gassed in a car, don't you think? A perverse form of anger.

    So many families do break down, yet not all result in the abject horrors of murdering one's own children. In face, the vast majority do not. It is only the minute few who take that step. I am just curious as to why or what could drive them to reach that point.

    Yes. But life is a form of manipulation in many ways. We manipulate the environment, those around us and our family to get what we want. Children learn it from birth and as adults, we've learned to refine it so that it becomes almost invisible.

    Could it be that the perceived loss of ownership and control could drive someone to committing such a crime. For the father who took his daughter downstairs after finding out his wife's infidelity, poisoning her and sending his sleeping wife upstairs sms' about his crime and blaming her for it, I would have to agree with your above statement. But many couples betray each other. Why do some go to such extremes for revenge?

    But then I guess, the best form of manipulation and control is to take away something the person you hate, loves the most, such as one's children. Killing the children means that he/she has managed to ruin, therefore manipulate and control, the life of the other parent. That's the ultimate form of control and manipulation isn't it.

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    Could be. Or it could also be that in non western countries, such things aren't reported as widely or we simply don't hear of it.

    You make a good point about the pressures of society however. Maybe as a society (and as individual human beings) we need to start re-evaluating what is important and we need to start realising that failure and success is a part and parcel of life. From childhood, we are taught that only being at the top or being the best is what matters. We see it in sports, politics, schools, workplaces.. in everything. I guess it can lead to stain the family situation as well. Our strive for perfection blinds us to reality.

    One of the articles I linked mentioned the same thing. I just find it to be the worst forms of revenge. And it makes the killer the biggest failure. Ironic isn't it?
     
  15. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    "Commonplace"? There are six billion people on this planet and if any one of us does anything bad that is truly remarkable it will be on satellite TV to the whole world within 24 hours. If you've seen reports of 97 cases of parents murdering their own children, you can be sure that there have been exactly 97 cases and no more.

    These things appear "commonplace" only because they are now so much more immediate to us, and because the world population is so much larger that there's more of every kind of evil. But don't jump to the conclusion that there is an upsurge in this type of crime just because there is an upsurge in the reporting.

    Before somebody asks me for my source, I just picked "97 cases" at random for the sake of the argument.
     

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