Are 'abstinence only programs' effective?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Bells, Dec 20, 2006.

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  1. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    A recent study in the US has found that 95% of Americans had premarital sex.

    The study has also indicated that because Americans are waiting longer before getting married to those in the past, Americans are also sexually active for longer periods compared to previous generations, who tended to marry at an earlier age.

    The group who conducted this study are against the Government educational abstinence only program, however they do raise a vailid point. Is it worth investing in an abstinence only educational program in schools and colleges if the majority may be having sex regardless? Should other programs be looked at as an alternative?

    One would assume that even if they do delay their sexual activities, teenagers will experiment in some ways, many of which some don't consider to be 'sex', due to the lack of vaginal penetration. Therefore, would it not be prudent to also teach them about sex in general and safe sex practices instead of only teaching about abstinence? Possibly divert some of the funds allocated to abstinence programs into sex education as well?
     
    Bells, Dec 20, 2006
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  3. francois

    francois Schwat? Registered Senior Member

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    Boy, I imagine god has some smiting to do.
     
    francois, Dec 20, 2006
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  5. francois

    francois Schwat? Registered Senior Member

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    Heh, the notion that people were chaste back in the old days never really jibed well with me. In a time when religion for many people was an important part of their lives, people still need sex. I don't know how strong the urge is for you guys, but for me it's extremely powerful. If it's the same way for most people back in the 40s, I can't imagine any reason they wouldn't find ways to have premarital sex and keep it clandestine.

    As for this statement, I agree. Plainly, most people are going to have premarital sex no matter what. No matter high the punishment or social pressures to do otherwise. Teaching safe sex and sanitation would be better. In a way it seems to be condoning teen sex. "Well, if you have to, be safe!"

    Kind of reminds me of parents who understand way too much. Like one of my ex-girlfriends. I was 19 when I dated her and she was 16. And her parents kind of always assumed we were having sex. That blew me away. I really liked her, and we did sort of have sex, but it was never penetration. But her mother actually offered her birth control. And they're good people--like middle-high class parents. A bit permissive. They would always leave the two of us in the house unsupervised--never knowing what we might have been doing. Boy... I could have gotten away with a lot of things in hindsight.

    So I guess a possible problem with that is that getting rid of abstinence education would probably be construed as condoning premarital sex.
     
    francois, Dec 20, 2006
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  7. Baron Max

    Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    I think we already do! Every school that I know has classes in "sex education".

    And ain't it weird, funny, strange, idiotic, ....what we're willing to spend our federal tax dollars on these days? How many poor, hungry, sick kids would that same amount of money care for?

    I wonder what kind of society we have where we expect the federal government to teach our children about sex?

    Baron Max
     
    Baron Max, Dec 20, 2006
    #4
  8. spidergoat

    spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    How much tax money will we save when young people learn to use protection?
     
    spidergoat, Dec 20, 2006
    #5
  9. Baron Max

    Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    I think we should just use the "sex education money" to actually TEACH kids HOW to have sex ...HOW to enjoy it without getting themselves into trouble. We should have them all participate in classes so they're familiar with sex, then when they're out on a date, they'll know just what to do, how to do, and, most importantly, how to enjoy it without having to worry about it all later.

    We all know that it's not ignorance that causes the problems ....it's lack of actual understanding of technique and procedure. Two young kids with lust in their hearts ain't gonna' stop for nothin' nor nobody!

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    Baron Max
     
    Baron Max, Dec 20, 2006
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  10. spidergoat

    spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe the teacher should demonstrate.
     
    spidergoat, Dec 20, 2006
    #7
  11. Baron Max

    Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Can't! We have this sillly-assed law that says it's illegal for old people to fuck young people!!

    But we could have two adult teachers demonstrate ...that would be okay. Or we could show the kids porno movies until they all began to realize what sex is really all about. Just keep showing the movies, prop open their eyes with toothpicks, and when they all begin to get sick and puke on the floor, then we can release them from class!

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    Baron Max
     
    Baron Max, Dec 20, 2006
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  12. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    It's not really condoning. It is to teach them both. I find it irresponsible when parents and schools refuse to teach their children about safe sex methods and about sex in general, instead relying only on abstinence. You can't teach abstinence and expect the teenagers to obey. Teenagers do not obey anything for the most part. Some think only vaginal sex is "sex", and do not realise that they need protection for anal and oral sex. Lack of education and information can lead to disasters as these kids participate more in these activities.

    I watched this documentary a few years ago about some areas in the US having schools do the whole abstinence pledge. When interviewed aftewards, the kids said they did not have sex and would not until marriage. When asked if they ever participated in oral sex or even anal sex, most of those interviewed said yes to one or both, and then went on to say that it's not sex as they were still virgins. And these kids weren't being taught about safe sex or what constitutes a sexual act. They did not know or think that anal or oral sex counted as sex, so therefore were not using any form of protection. Scary thought. I can't remember the name of the documentary, and will try to find links to it.

    The above report then states that approximately 3 million teenagers are diagnosed with one or more STD's each year in the US. That figure is reason enough to start teaching safe sex practices as an over all part of sex education which includes abstinence, as well as teaching them what actually constitutes a sexual act, instead of what some schools in the US is doing, which is teaching abstinence only and nothing else (not even contraception) as the form of sex education.

    Here is a 10 page report on the efficacy of abstinence only education policy and practices in the US and its effects world wide through aid packages. I found it to be astounding that the amount of money funding abstinence only as the form of sex education in some areas and it appears to not be as effective as they would like to imagine. And it is still seen as being the preferred form of sex education by the Government.

    From the link:

    Now the Government and education boards in some parts of the US are placing pressure on schools and teachers to adopt abstinence only programs. As a result, as shown above, many of these kids simply do not know or understand what constitutes an STD and how the use of condoms and other forms of contraception can not only protect them from STD's but also from pregnancy as well. And the report does show a high failure rate in the abstinence only pledge (where teens are made to sign a pledge that they will remain virgins until marriage), and when it does fail, most do not use any form of protection at all. Again from the link above and from page 6:

    I think it's time for the Government to recognise that the abstinence only program is not that effective and a more wide based form of sexual education, incorporating abstinence but also providing kids with the knowledge of safe sex and contraception should also be implemented.

    In 2005, the Government was spending $168 million on abstinence only programs in schools. Maybe some of that money should also be funding proper sex education classes in all schools.
     
    Bells, Dec 21, 2006
    #9
  13. Baron Max

    Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Geez, Bells, are you losin' it? On the one hand, you're saying that we should teach kids about safe sex, etc, yet on the other hand, you say that kids won't listen to anything we teach anyway. Could you, perhaps, make up your mind?

    I'm more than curious, however, why you think parents should let public schools teach their children about sex? Shouldn't that be the job of the parents ........and NOT the schools?

    Hmm, tell me what incurable STDs are/can be contracted during oral sex?

    I know of only one case of HIV being transmitted during oral sex ...and that was with a person who had horrible gum diseases with open sores! It was in Florida, I think?

    You said they wouldn't listen anyway, so what the hell difference does it make what we tell them?

    Why don't we just teach them how to have sex ...all of the proper techniques and pleasures ...have them practice in the classrooms so they'll be better prepared out in the wild, wild west?

    Two young kids in lust ain't gonna' stop to figure out what to do or how to do it until it's too late. Just give them a jump on it ...have them fuck properly in the classrooms!

    Baron Max
     
    Baron Max, Dec 21, 2006
    #10
  14. Prince_James

    Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    If it is held that premarital sex is a problem - which, evidently, people do in regards to teen pregnancy, abortion, single-parent households, et cetera, et cetera - then whyever do we remove two reasons NOT to do it through teaching birth control? When you have behaviour you want to control, you make the consequences worse than if you did not. Prengancy and/or getting an STD are good ways of keeping people out of bed with eachother.

    Really, though, it may be a time for a return to significantly earlier marriages in order to provide a more viable social platform for addressing the human libido.
     
    Prince_James, Dec 21, 2006
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  15. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    Yes it should be up to the parents, but many do not. Especially the parents are support abstinence only programs. Schools used to teach sex education and also instruct students about the use of contraception and protection. Now many schools are only teaching abstinence and nothing else. Telling a child to not have sex until marriage is like telling you to not have sex with your goats and sheep.

    Teenagers will explore and will participate in sexual activities, even if they have been told that abstinence is the only way to go. Therefore, wouldn't it be best to try and arm with with the knowledge about safe sex measures such as condoms? Ignorance is not education.

    Contrary to what you may believe Baron, you do not have to have "horrible gum disease with open sores" to be at risk of HIV. A simple cut or scratch can be enough. While oral sex carries a lesser risk of vaginal or anal sex, the risk is still there. And some kids also participate in anal sex, not thinking it to be a break in their pledge to keep them virgins, and they aren't using protection.

    I'd suggest you read from the following two links and see for yourself:

    http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa19.htm

    http://www.aids.org/info/hiv-from-oral-sex.html

    As to other STD's, well most can be deadly if it's not treated. Syphilis can kill if not caught early and one of the report I'd listed in my previous post showed that a lot of teenagers who took the abstinence pledge and were taught only abstinence for sex education tended to not seek medical advice if symptoms of STD's presented themselves. You figure it out Baron.

    I'm saying make the information available to them and then hope to hell some of it sank in. Not teaching them about it won't mean they won't participate in sexual activities. Not teaching them about contraception won't mean that they will automatically protection is available out there if they decide to partake in sexual activities.

    Denying them the information on some moral and religious grounds can come back and bite everyone on the arse. Teenagers will experiment in one way or the other, regardless of whether they have taken the pledge or only been taught about abstinence. A lot of kids don't know that oral sex and anal sex is sex and it's not just vaginal sex that counts as "sex". They don't know because they weren't taught about it or spoken to about it. Parents and schools are to blame for their ignorance.

    Do you actually type some of this crap on purpose to get attention or do you actually believe some of what you say? In another post you suggested teachers having sex with students as part of their sex education.. again with the paedophile thing with you? Are you that much of a perverted individual? WTF is the matter with you old man?
     
    Bells, Dec 21, 2006
    #12
  16. Bubber

    Bubber Herbal Cannabinoid Lover Registered Senior Member

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    Bubber, Dec 21, 2006
    #13
  17. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    Heh!

    That is one of my husband's favourite MP moments.

    That and the "he's not the messiah.. he's a very naughty boy!!" as well as just about every movie and episode they have ever made..

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    Although that sex ed moment would be enough to turn anyone off sex LOL..
     
    Bells, Dec 21, 2006
    #14
  18. mountainhare

    mountainhare Banned Banned

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    There's no reason why sex ed can't promote both abstinence, and condom usage...
     
    mountainhare, Dec 21, 2006
    #15
  19. Baron Max

    Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    And so you want all of us to take that responsibility? Why? Through what mechanism do you suggest we use to usurp the rights of the parents (even those who don't give a fuck!)?

    Bells, I can only consider that attitude as being pretty fuckin' nosy!

    Yeah, because concerned parents didn't want the damned schools to mess with the education and training of their children! And I can't say that I blame them.

    Then let them suffer the consequences. When I was a kid, girls knew better than to go around fucking their boyfriends all the time! It was considered unacceptable behavior. then along comes the bullshit of free rights and all that crap, not to mention the uproar of corporal punishment for kides, and look what we're faced with now?!

    What else should the schools do to take over for the parents? Perhaps we should have the schools cook healthy breakfast, lunch and dinners for the little bastards, too? Maybe we should install laundry services in schools, too?

    Okay, if you say so ....then what's the risk for oral sex, Bells? Like 1 in ten million?

    Should we teach the little bastards not to jump off of high cliffs onto the rocks below, too? How 'bout not the tie a rope around your neck and hook it to the bumper of a car?

    How do you think humans actually lived beyond, say, ten years old back in the old days, Bells? I mean, with all that you're saying and implying, the human race would have been extinct before it even evolved!

    That's for me to know and you to figure out. As I see it, my personality should have virtually no bearing on what's written in the posts. If you can't respond to the words that are written, then perhaps you shouldn't respond at all.

    Didn't read too closely, did you? I suggest that you read my post again.

    Hmm, are you really a moderator?

    Baron Max
     
    Baron Max, Dec 21, 2006
    #16
  20. Baron Max

    Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Don't you think that should be up to the elected school board members and the people who voted them into that position? Or don't you believe in the elected representation in local governments and school systems?

    If you teach sex ed to kids in schools, aren't you usurping the authority and the rights of parents? How can you suggest such a thing when the system forces the kids to go to the schools?

    Baron Max
     
    Baron Max, Dec 21, 2006
    #17
  21. Bubber

    Bubber Herbal Cannabinoid Lover Registered Senior Member

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    We all pay the price of poor education Baron.

    excerpted from The National Academy

    That is just the cost in money. These diseases are completely preventable! Nobody needs to suffer!

    If they don't know the consequences of their actions because they haven't been taught effective control, should they still "suffer the consequences"? Not all parents properly teach their children and the children pay emotionally and society pays financially for that misdeed. Is that proper when it can so easily be prevented?
     
    Bubber, Dec 21, 2006
    #18
  22. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    This from the man who came out with:

    Ya, you're one to talk.

    And I like how you instantly take the opposing view at all times. Very predictable.

    So you think letting the kids have sex in classrooms won't ursurp the parents wishes and rights? Hmmm ok.

    Anywho..

    Lets see now..

    You were saying Baron?

    90% of parents want sex education to be taught in school, however in many States, the education department has banned it outright, preferring to adopt the Federal Government's wishes and plans for abstinence only types of education as being the only form of sex education children receive.

    No Baron. When you were a kid, kids had sex and didn't tell anyone and many did suffer the consequence. I'd suggest you read the study mentioned in the first article in this thread.

    You may believe that in your day and age, people just didn't have sex before marriage, but this study has proven you wrong.

    Hmmmm..

    You are aware that many schools are in the process of looking into the nutrition of school meals aren't you?

    Read the links provided, and then we'll talk. kk?

    Is your rant over?

    Re-read what I typed and do so with both eyes open and with your brain functioning and not be so emotional.

    I believe I did respond.

    Oh I read your post. The question still stands.

    It's killing you isn't it?

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    Bells, Dec 21, 2006
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  23. Roman

    Roman Banned Banned

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    I read an editorial in New Scientist about this.
    It went like this:

    Proponents of abstinence only sex say it's 100% effective– if the practicers don't have sex.
    Data shows, however, that those who fail to stay abstinent (after they take chastity vows or pledges or what-the-fuck-ever) use protection far less frequently than those who just use a condom when they engage in their godless, teen sex.

    When abstinence only programs fail, they fail in a big way. They leave the sinful child vulnerable to STDs, as they are ignorant of condom usage, and unaware of other dangers, the likelihood of pregancy, where to go for help if something happens, etc.

    So while a condom can break, and if you don't have sex, you can't get anyone pregnant or get AIDS, those who fail to not have sex (and srsly who blames them) are at a serious and dangerous disadvantage.
     
    Roman, Dec 21, 2006
    #20
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