This is a bit confusing, if time has always existed, that would mean there were an infinite number of days before today. so how are we at today? <------------------------ For ex.) *-----------------------> Time is coming from this direction this way Today yeah... confusing but... think about it, time could not have been here forever because it is impossible for forever to be in front of today. Thats like saying I walked infinite miles to get home and I got home. *please excuse all grammar
Is it impossible for ther eto be an infinite distance from you to the "end of infinity" at this time? No. Why then is it impossible for there to be an infinite distance of time in the past from you? And an infinite distance into the future? To give up infinite time is to present the arbitrary as true.
The big bang theory says that time did not exist before the big bang. Time came into existence with the rest of the universe, approximately 13.5 billion years ago.
Most mainstreamers are now saying about 18 billion years ago, but of course, if that were true, we'd see diameters of debris fields from supernovas which would reflect millions of years of age, but they're all of such small diameters that they must have exploded only thousands of years ago.
Akottens, Great thread. Very intersting topic. I still don't really know exactly what time is. I am baffled by it. I agree with Ice Age though that matter and time must be connected and go hand-in-hand with one another. It doesn't seems like matter could exist without time or time without matter because the material world goes by the law: something can't be created out of nothing.
I wish someone could adequately explain why they believe the Universe to be eternal. If that is so, we would be too.
James R.: The problem with that view of the Big Bang is that it produces one of two ends: 1. Existence came from no where and just popped into being. Aka: Science is essentially defaulting to a God-like figure. 2. If one cannot speak of time, one cannot speak of anything which could trigger it, including such things as brane collisions which have been theorized by some scientists as being a possible cause for the Big Bang. If modern physics wants to stop at the Big Bang, fine, be my guest. But modern physics cannot verifiably claim that time began at the Big Bang if that is the case. It is also a piss-poor way to deal with the universe as a whole.
Also, another follow up question to original thread question: Has space always existed? It seems as if space and time go hand-in-hand with one another. Here is why I think this: 1) Is the Universe infinite in space - If we built a ship with endless energy and flew that ship through space in one direction at millions of times the speed of light, what would happen? Would we hit a wall eventually? Or is there no end to the space of the universe? Is space infinite? 2) Is the Universe infinite in time?
according to the BG 4 things are eternal time is eternal the manifestations of existences, whether spiritual or material are eternal (although material creation goes through seasons of annhilation and flourishing, just like spring moves on to winter - the spiritual realm is constant ) and the living entity is eternal god is eternal What is not eternal however is karma, or the results of one's activities - this enables for a sufficient degree of independance for the living entity to exhibit free will
This idea was posited by Swivel, I think, on another thread - in the "God is impossible" thread if memory serves. Anyhoo - the idea is that those who say that "time was created with the Universe" do not really understand what "time" is. Our universe has its own measure of time, that we percieve of at 1 second per second. However - time exists wherever there is a change of state of a system. If there is no change in state then there is no time. Now - either there is absolutely nothing outside of our Universe - i.e. no state - and our universe sprang from that nothing - then time probably only exists in our universe. However, if we are just one universe in an amorphous blob of "stuff" that is continually changing - then time exists outside. Now - assuming that time DOES exist outside the Universe (i.e. there are changes in the "stuff") then if time truly is Infinite in both directions then the point of creation of our universe could, mathematically, never have been reached. Why? If there is a change in state (i.e. time) then this has to be a discrete period, no matter how small. It MUST be discrete. Otherwise it is ZERO - and there was no change - and hence no time. So - if you are saying there was an infinite number of these discrete moments prior to the creation of the Universe - then the creation could never have been reached - as there would be an infinite length of this time between the start of time and the creation of the Universe. This is, as I have understood it, a mathematical impossibility IF time exists outside our universe AND is infinite. Therefore one must come to the conclusion that: (a) Time does NOT exist outside our universe - in which case there is no change - and if there is no change then there is nothing. OR... (b) Time is not infinite. In which case it must have had a beginning - in which case there must have been a lack of change of state in the original system. But then how did that become manifest? OR... (c) Time is not as described - i.e. either does not exist wherever there is a change of state - or if it does, is not necessarily of a discrete period. My thanks to Swivel for the plagarised ideas in this thread. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Time MUST be eternal. Nothing can begin or end or start or stop without time. Therefore time never began, because things can't begin without time itself already existing. So time MUST be eternal, beginningless, unborn, etc.... So matter came into existence...but time did not
"Time" does not 'exist'. Existence exists. Matter exists. Energy exists. Time is a human made measurement for logically perceiving and communicating the order of events. Humans invented time and have applied time to understanding, postulating or imagining concepts like varying universes, the theory of relativity, Doctor Who etc. Therefore, if we consider the time before any life, we would imagine that existence was there...but have absolutely no frame of reference as to the 'measurement' of duration. Time was only conceptualized with the advent of human intelligence. A more correct question might be 'has existence always existed'? (This more correct question is a relative time measurement too!)
Time is meaningless if no one is there to count it, and since God is an eternal being, His interest in time is only for us.
Sarkus: I'm going to ponder the comments you made just now for a bit and get back to you on how we can reconcile infinite time with the present. For it would seem that many things - including the necessity of existence itself - demand that time be infinite, yet this is indeed a problem on one level.
