If all religion is false then why is....

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by VitalOne, Nov 8, 2006.

  1. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    If all religion is false why are there striking parallels in the teachings and words of spiritual figures...surely they are trying to reveal the same truth...

    Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Lao Tzu, among others all have similarities in their teachings...why is this? If it was all false there would be no similarities, there would be no connection at all...but there are innumerable parallels almost as if they are trying to explain the same truth to mankind...

    Also, we can all agree that within 1,000 years if science and civilization continue as it is then science will be almost completely different...making many many things we currently believe in modern science 100% false, just as things we believed in the 1950s we now know are false....so why do you atheists act as if science is 100% true, to highest degree? I can bet that if you lived in the 1600s, because you have the same mentality, you would be telling me that the Sun revolves around the Earth, there are no such things as blackholes, there is no quantum particles, etc...and this was just a bit more than 400 years ago...

    Knowing this to be true, why do you speak as if science is 100% true...the truths spiritual masters revealed in the past remain the same, unchanging and sensible...yet you do not believe them nor do you even consider them to be true...why is this?
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2006
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  3. glaucon tending tangentially Registered Senior Member

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    Name some of these similarities.
     
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  5. Fire Registered Senior Member

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    Oh right, so there are some vague similarities to the superstition so it must be true? Same goes for different branches of Astrology, right?

    Science is a self-improving body of knowledge, and therein lies it's strength. In 1,000 years many of the facts we know of today will still be relevant, but our methods used to understand them will no doubt have improved. Some theories will also be replaced/refined by new ones and new discoveries will be made - this is obviously a good thing.

    Just because religion is stagnant and science is evolving does not mean religion has any more truth to it than science - The FSM will always be constant too. Religion is, and always will be, superstitious bollocks. Science is the most reliable tool of human knowledge we have.
     
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  7. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    These religions are not all that similar, but I suppose you could interpret them with some continuity. Some differences between them are as much as between science today and science 100 years ago. Science doesn't contradict some of them, such as Buddha's notion that nothing is separate and nothing lasts.

    Newtonian mechanics are not obsolete, just because we discovered relativistic effects, they are still useful for calculating orbits and engineering on Earth.

    People don't really speak of science as 100% true. But 99.99% true is true enough.
     
  8. Boss Foxx I piss excellence. Registered Senior Member

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    Just because there are striking parallels betweens different myths in religion, doesn't equate to them leading to some "truth". Recurring themes are just that... recurring themes. Just because romance novels share striking parallels, that doesn't mean they're all revealing some kind of truth about the fair-haired stable boy.
     
  9. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    I'll point out some of the exact similarities:

    "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." - Jesus (Revelation 22:13)

    "I am also the beginning, the middle, and the end of all beings." Krishna (BG 10.20)

    "If you realize that all things change, there is nothing you will try to hold on to" - Lao Tzu

    "Everything changes, nothing remains without change" - Buddha

    “He who rules his spirit has won a greater victory than the taking of a city.” - Jesus

    "It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell" - Buddha

    And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death. " - Jesus (Gospel of Thomas, 1)

    "I shall now explain the knowable, knowing which you will taste the eternal..." - Krishna (BG 13.13)

    "Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you." - Jesus (Gospel of Thomas, 3)

    "The Supreme Truth exists outside and inside of all living beings...." - Krishna (BG 13.16)

    "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth" -Buddha

    "For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed." - Jesus (Gospel of Thomas, 5)

    "It is better to do one's own duty, however defective it may be, than to follow the duty of another, however well one may perform it. He who does his duty as his own nature reveals it, never sins." - Lao Tzu

    "It is far better to discharge one's prescribed duties, even though faultily, than another's duties perfectly. Destruction in the course of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, for to follow another's path is dangerous." - Krishna (BG 3.35)

    "It is, Kassapa, as if a potter made different vessels out of the same clay. Some of these pots are to contain sugar, others rice, others curds and milk others still are vessels of impurity. There is no diversity in the clay used the diversity of the pots is only due to the moulding hands of the potter who shapes them for the various uses that circumstances may require." - The Buddha (Gospel of Buddha, 55.2)

    "Gold alone is present before its manufacture into gold products, the gold alone remains after the products' destruction, and the gold alone is the essential reality while it is being utilized under various designations. Similarly, I alone exist before the creation of this universe, after its destruction and during its maintenance." Krishna (SB 11.28.19)

    "Health is the greatest possession. Contentment is the greatest treasure. Confidence is the greatest friend. Non-being is the greatest joy." - Lao Tzu

    "Health is the greatest gift, contentment the greatest wealth, faithfulness the best relationship." - The Buddha

    I could continue describing other innumerable exact similarities. As you can see, some of these match word for word, almost as if they are indeed trying to explain the same essential truth to mankind.....isn't it also ironic that they all promise eternal bliss..freedom from all suffering...etc...just think about it
     
  10. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    This is exactly what I'm talking about, you atheists believe you already know it all, there is nothing you do not know, therefore you are able to know that religion is "supserstitious bullocks". Because you have knowledge of everything, you KNOW that reilgion is false, you do not even consider the words of the perfected ones of the past. Do not do good deeds, do not help others, just do as you please.
     
  11. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    I never stated that these religions are similar. Indeed they are very different from each other. However, if you read and study the teachings of these perfected ones, you will find that they are trying to explain the very same, essential truth. They preach different paths based on that same, absolute, unchanging, eternal truth. Where as Krishna and Jesus preach the truth through a theistic way, Lao Tzu and The Buddha preach this very same truth in a non-theistic way.

    Also, you still don't get that many of the very things you believe in science currently are 100% false.

    You don't find it strange that spiritual masters all say, and preach the samethings? What you are saying is that if a man on one continent in a different time says 1+1=2 and another man in another continent also says 1+1=2, they are talking about two completely different things that have no relation to each other....maybe in reality they are just trying to explain the same truth.
     
  12. Fire Registered Senior Member

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    I am sure religion is bollocks with equal confidence that astrology is bollocks.

    The trouble with religion is that a person who has any significant amount of followers can simply say god revealed something to him, and they believe him and it is as simple as that. It is total bollocks.

    Science isn't a way to 'know it all', it is a way to know somethings to the best of our ability. I'd suggest that is better than knowing it all simply by inventing fantasies within your mind.
     
  13. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    The problem is that if that were true then the teachings of all would differ greatly but instead they parallel greatly. Again if there were no essential truth these people were trying to explain then their teachings would be as different as the cultures of the world, but instead the words spoken them are strikingly similar.

    Although I see many different cultures in the world brought up by different environments, despite the different environment, despite the culture, despite the conditions, despite the language, the words and teachings of different spiritual masters are very very similar.
     
  14. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    xians PLAGIARIZED the story or rather MYTH of Jesus from Hindu religions Holy dude (dont recal the name) is what Ive heard.
    name some !!
    b/c science can TEST and retest eveything until we are sure its the TRUTH'
    care to test your DEITY?
     
  15. baumgarten fuck the man Registered Senior Member

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    I'm reading an interesting book right now on how the earliest evidence of religion is all strikingly similar worldwide. A popular theory suggests that Neolithic cave paintings are inspired by hallucinogenic visions and may be relics of man's earliest religious rituals. The eerie thing is that the cave paintings in Europe and South Africa, thousands of miles (and years) apart, are almost identical in style and subject matter. Not exactly what the original post is getting at, but it is related and worth considering.
     
  16. Roman Banned Banned

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    People are the same everywhere and like to believe the same things. They think similar ways and arrive at similar conclusions.

    Ideas are independently and repeatedly concieved at different times in different places, because the machines that think them up are virtually all the same.
     
  17. cato less hate, more science Registered Senior Member

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    ok,

    firstly, science is infallible. you heard me. I find it sad that someone who would attack science in such a way knows nothing about it.

    SCIENCE: science is a method of observation, hypothesizing, testing, formulation of theories, and optimization of theories. the scientific method, by definition, can't be wrong.
    Q: how does one prove a scientific theory wrong?
    A: a better scientific theory.

    however, VitalOne, you seem to be confusing science and scientific theories. don't feel too bad, most people are too stupid to know the difference.


    to the point of similarity of religions:
    the conclusion that they are teaching some absolute truth does not follow from the premise that they teach similar things. however, the fact that they teach similar things does support the view that ideas evolve. humans, no matter where they live, have similar desires for truth. therefore, man has devised methods for finding truth. early in human history, the best way of finding truth was simply to ask an elder/shaman, and thus religion was born. later, man developed a much better way of finding truth, it is called science. however, some desires of man, such as absolute truth, are not something that can be answered by science. thus, all of the things that science cannot explain, are still in the realm of religion. its easy to see that, as science developed, religion was blotted out in some areas, much like a candle will light a dark room. the candle of science has illuminated so many things that were previously staples of religions (like chariots pulling the sun across the sky) that all religions are left with the same dark corners to hide in. think about it, 3000 years ago, there were few similarities in the religions of distant peoples. religion has mutated and adapted, which I find funny, since some of the religions that have done so, do not acknowledge evolution.
     
  18. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    There is little no evidence to support this notion, also Lao Tzu and The Buddha are known to have historically existed as different people...

    Sure,

    In 1950:
    - electrons orbit similarly to how planets orbit
    - There is no such thing as a quark, or anything beyond an electron, proton, or neutron
    - Big Bang theory not widely accepted yet
    - etc....

    so if something is currently untestable it must be 100% false....ok..so I guess in ancient times there is no such thing as electromagnetism...it didn't exist back then
     
  19. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Scorpio

    the endeavour to cram your ideas of reality into the historical record would take the hard work of a generation of PHD's and a gullible audience
    Er - all of them .....Can you name a science text book that is held as authoratative for the past 40 years and will remain credible for the next 40?
    testing god is what the practioner is constantly engaged in doing until they come to the perfectional platform
     
  20. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Vital,

    Or they have all made the same error. Or the later ones have simply copied from previous wisdoms.

    Many wisdoms are simply obvious to any rational thinker but the commonality between these ancients is their ignorance of how the universe operates and that has led all of them to create imaginary spiritual concepts to explain what couldn’t otherwise be explained. That many of their wisdoms had real weight tended to give weight to their other fanciful spiritual concepts, and hence easily believed and consumed by the gullible.

    You appear not to understand science. Science doesn’t claim to present truth unlike religions. Science is a continuously changing process that enables us to obtain knowledge. The main strength of science is its ability to change and adapt as new discoveries are made. But much of what science has discovered is clearly true and enables us to proceed at an accelerated pace to discover even more. Religion on the other hand has yet to demonstrate a single credible truth.

    Which it isn’t.

    That anyone who understands science doesn’t claim.

    Except when they continually change over the centuries based on discoveries made by science.

    Except for the unfounded spiritual fantasies that alter on a whim and are eminently foolish.

    No religious fantasy has ever been shown to be true so why would any rational person believe them?
     
  21. Roman Banned Banned

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    Yet it is often presented as such, often by scientists, and certainly between one scientist and another.
     
  22. cato less hate, more science Registered Senior Member

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    edit:
    nevermind
     
  23. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    Right...so what you're saying is that science is fictional...because people everywhere like to believe the samethings...they think similarly and arrive at similar conclusions

    Also....isn't it strange that people who say they have realized the mystery of mysteries, the essential truth, etc...all say very very similar things??

    Woah, you must not know how to use a dictionary:

    sci‧ence [sahy-uhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
    –noun 1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
    2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
    3. any of the branches of natural or physical science.
    4. systematized knowledge in general.
    5. knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.
    6. a particular branch of knowledge.
    7. skill, esp. reflecting a precise application of facts or principles; proficiency.

    Check definition 5, and now figure out what "modern science" means, don't worry you can do it if you try hard enough. Ancient science is different from modern science....

    You should know that science and religion are only enemies in the West. Also, don't you find it strange that people who claim to have found a path to end all suffering, path to eternal bliss, all say very similar things? Maybe, in reality, they really did discover the essential truth, and thats why they say very very similar things. Also, I don't really see how science is in contradiction with their words.

    If it is an error, then why haven't religions which teach the opposite become as global as their teachings? Surely it wouldn't matter all, but it does.

    What is ignorant or contradictory about it? Milleniums before Quantum Mechanics had proven that reality really has no independant existence, and that all is inherent chaos it was said by these same spiritual masters.

    The reason you conclude it is ignorant is because you may find something contradictory in modern science, so it must be ignorant, right?

    Science does claim to present the truth. The reason you say religion is mythical and imaginary is because it doesn't agree with science...right? Therefore you yourself have proven my point.

    So science in 1,000 years will remain the same as it is now? What I'm saying is that many things we believe are true currently in 1,000 years we will not...how can anyone disagree with that?

    You clearly claim this because you claim that religion is fictional, you come to this conclusion from science, therefore you claim that science is 100% true, to the highest degree. And since it is 100% true to highest degree, religion must be false.

    They don't change. How do they change? They're scriptures.....

    Again..they don't change...

    Again, you say that you don't claim that science is 100% true, yet you say everything as it if it is...
     

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