Should it be illegal to have sex with a woman under the influence of alcohol

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Theoryofrelativity, Nov 4, 2006.

  1. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    deleted in protest to really poor moderation
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2007
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  3. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

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    1) Should the law make the matter clearer and make it illegal, to protect the male from rape charges and to discourage binge drinking in females.

    Most first time sexual encounters with new partners, happen these days while under the under the influence of alcohol. Yet rarely does it result in a rape charge. I know many women who get drunk to the point of not recalling details afterwards and who become sexual predators when drunk. They do not cry rape when they regret their evenings antics, but if they could under possible new laws would they? Presently they of course do not feel they were 'raped' but that may change if the law changes, as things often do.

    1) Being 'drunk' is an arbitrary phrase. Some people and especially smaller framed women can lose all inhibition with just one drink, but how could a stranger know this, if he doesn't know what her 'normal' personality is like?

    2) If a woman knows that she becomes easy prey or sexually predatory when drunk, then surely she should avoid drinking with men, especially strangers and especially in pubs and clubs where the whole point of the 'pickup ritual' is meant to lead to sex?


    Controversial


    This goes for men too, women can coax a drunk man into sex very easily, married men may for example may not actively seek other women, but may be caught by a predatory female while he is drunk and find his whole marriage in trouble afterwards.

    A man that allows himself to get so drunk that he loses all semblance of decency, loyalty and fidelity is in deep trouble in any case and probably deserves the consequences.

    2) Should he also be able to cry 'rape' ? Afterall he was taken advantage of while drunk? Would his wife accept he was 'raped' under these circumstances.

    Highly debatable but you know, what's good for the gander should also be good for the goose

    3) Will the new rules reflect both genders having sex while drunk or only women?
    As I understand it from your blurb, this law is designed to help women that are purposefully gotten drunk by would-be date rapists, so I doubt that both genders would be represented, but in a situation where both parties got very drunk and then had consensual sex without violence then I think the man would be mitigated.

    4) Should sex while drunk/drinking alcohol be illegal for everyone?

    No, that would be ridiculous

    5) How drunk is too drunk to make an informed choice? Will we be educated in 'observing the signs'? What signs mean the line has been crossed for informed consent and uninformed consent?


    When my bf is drunk, he tells me, I can't tell myself. Very little of his outward behaviour changes. The same re myself. How are people to judge this to protect themselves from rape charges? Should we just make sex while drinking alcohol illegal?

    Er... sex breathalyser? As I said before, being drunk is a very individual state of mind with individual responses (that's not what I actually said but same meaning)


    6) While telling men not to have sex with drunk women should we not also be diuscouraging binge drinking in women, to ensure they are not at risk?

    The links show that rape cases reports are increasing but failing in prosecution as the female bringing the charges was drunk and can't recall what she said etc. Thus it is evident that drunk women are MORE at risk than none drunk women and are now in the highest catagory for rape.

    Nanny laws can't change human nature. Women should realise that they are indeed at risk when drunk so should take proper precautions
     
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  5. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Any woman can accuse a man of rape no matter what the hell he does or doesn't do! All she has to do is file a police report and make that claim.

    Soon, if this kind of crap keeps going, men will have to have women sign notarized consent agreements, AND have the sexual encounter videotaped so as to prove what happened in a court of law.

    Ain't civilization wonderful?

    Baron Max
     
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  7. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

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    This is only a proposed law, I doubt very much that it will be passed, as it is probably unfeasible.
     
  8. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    no.
    the simple reason being as soon as you sip a beer you are under the influence of alcohol.
    most females know the effect of alcohol. that's why the legal age is 21 in most states.
     
  9. thedevilsreject Registered Senior Abuser Registered Senior Member

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    no it shouldnt. most of this happens when the male is drunk at the time and they want to have a ood time but they are too drunk to think about the consequences. there was a case like this in britain a week ago when a uni president was accused of raping a freshman when both of them were drunk, serves the girl right for getting so drunk in the first place
     
  10. thedevilsreject Registered Senior Abuser Registered Senior Member

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    side note: plus how else is sderenzi going to get his first pull
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    The issues of rape an alcohol arose mostly due to the fact that the rapist would often use alcohol as a form of date rape drug to get his/her victim drunk to the point where they are almost passed out and would then be less unwilling to have sex with them. For example, if the victim did not show any interest before being drunk or drugged, and after having been made to get so drunk that they lose all self control by their intended rapist, and then are raped by said rapist (after all, when drunk people lose their inhibitions and become weaker mentally as well as physically), then yes that can be construed as rape.

    The issue with alcohol and rape is that alcohol is the first date rape drug and one that is legal to gain access to and it's easy to buy. Rapists will use it to get their victim drunk. Often the rapist will be someone the victim knows and trusts, but may simply not have any sexual interest in. Blaming the victim for being silly enough to get so drunk in the first place is a tad silly, as if you're with someone you trust, say in a group of friends, and one of them starts plying you with alcohol, would the first thing to come to your mind be that they're out to rape you? People have to realise that rape, involving alcohol or any type of date rape drug, is something that is planned. If the rapist is purposefully getting the victim drunk to have sex with them afterwards, then yes it is premeditated rape.

    One question everyone needs to ask themselves is that if you're out with friends and you find yourself getting drunk, would you ever suspect someone you trust of being the type of person to rape you? Because most rape victims who are raped after getting drunk, are raped by the very person they trusted and would never have suspected that he'd take advantage of them in such a way.

    A legislation, such as the one ToR proposes would be impossible to police or enforce. The only way to ensure that victims are not raped while drunk would be to ban the sale of alcohol, and that's never going to happen.

    That's a nice healthy attitude to have towards a rape victim. Tell me, is it easier to just blame the victim? She was with the university president, she probably trusted him so probably had no reason to fear getting drunk. Instead of blaming her, why don't you look at his actions as to why a university president was getting drunk with his students and taking advantage of them afterwards.
     
  12. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Maybe instead of blaming booze, we should blame "trust"? Let's call for a law against women trusting men!

    It's funny, but if I had a hole in my body that most men wanted to stick their dicks into, I think I'd be a big more careful, ya' know? I don't think I'd just trust someone without some damned good, solid evidence for that trust.

    Hey, let's ban women from going out without bodyguards armed with submachine guns, knives, machetes, hand grenades and armed with video cameras and voice recorders.

    Baron Max
     
  13. sderenzi Banned Banned

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    Mr. DevilsReject + ToR

    So listen Carmen came and paid back my 100 bucks I'd loaned her. She also explained she hadn't been having a very good time of things lately, etc. I felt sorry for her so was nicer then I have been, and we talked awhile about things. She was saying she spent a few days in the hospital because she was depressed, I thought perhaps because of something I'd done, later only to find out it was due to her breaking up with a longtime friend / that became lover. Pretty weird stuff to be sure, and today she came to see me, but alas I'm unsure what to make of her antics. I don't wish to date her now, she has to much drama and is to immature. I also don't really wish to become someone she depends on for emotional support, but it would seem that's what is happening. I totally told this girl to leave me alone before but she just won't, it's kinda nuts. I sympathize with her being down but what can I do? All she basically did was yap at me about her problems and I offered my advice, it's weird.

    On another note, I won't yell at her again, last thing I need is her back in the hospital for being sad cuz of something I did. I've decided just to let her yap and only deal with her at work. What do ya think?
     
  14. Roman Banned Banned

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    sderenzi– Why couldn't you say that in a PM?

    re thread topic–
    At my college, if a woman has been drinking and hooks up with a guy, she can call rape if she wants to. And it happens frequently. Chicks get drunk, have a raucus good time with a couple frat boys, wake up and realize that sucking all that dick in front of people, regardless of how fun they found it the night before, terribly socially taboo. So rather than admit to themselves, their families and their friends that they're trashy little skanks that love cock, they cry rape.
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    Or maybe just have a law that bans men from raping women and vice versa and men from raping men and women from raping women? Oh wait... That already exists. How about people just control themselves a bit better and simply not rape? Instead of looking at it from the victims point of view, we look at it from the rapists view and simply tell people that it is never "ok" to rape another whether they are drunk, drugged, sober, vulnerable, weak, a child... hell how about we just make sure it's never ok to rape.. period? What an ideal world that would be. But then we'd have to change the world and live in the hope that people stop blaming the victim and instead blame the rapist...
     
  16. imaplanck. Banned Banned

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    "Should it be illegal to have sex with a woman under the influence of alcohol "


    Should it be illegal to have sex with a woman period?

    Should it be illegal for women to drink alcohol?


    This would be a ridiculous law.
     
  17. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    Indeed it would!

    I wanted to see if those that cannot accept that womens behaviour places them at greater risk of being raped due to binge drinking, would go the extra mile to protect them.

    I would rather introduce a limited drink law, to reduce the likelihood of binge drinking though some women are plastered on one glass of wine. But it would help reduce the culture in Britain that we have now re 'Ladettes' who get pissed, take bra's off, simulate sex with other women in bars etc from falling foul of amorous men.
     
  18. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

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    How on earth do you envisage imposing this limited drink law? As you say, many people are not obviously plastered even when they actually are and even if a premises refused to serve someone after the 3rd drink for example, there is nothing to stop them from moving on to another place and having another 3.

    I think the problem is the ingrained social culture in Britain of politeness, political correctness and the requirement to appear professional and unemotional in the workplace. Most people are not naturally like that. They spend their working week pretending to be something they're not; get totally frustrated and attempt to cope with it by getting totally smashed on the weekend.
     
  19. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    I don't really Tab, it just popped into my head, and now popped out again

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    We could have some device fitted to them so when they reach a certain alcohol level their eyes flash red and beep and if they exceed this level, they explode.

    Meanwhile I don't think these ladettes are proffesional ladies. Just uneducated, common, silly litle girls.
     
  20. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Baron Max:

    Yes, but there are penalties for making false accusations, and a burden of proof to satisfy in a prosecution.

    Did you miss the statistic above that only a small percentage of rape accusations ever result in a court case?

    No, let's make it compulsory for all men to take self-control tests. If they can't pass, they aren't allowed to go out without supervision any more.

    What do you think?


    Roman:

    How many of these cries of rape have resulted in criminal convictions at your college?
     
  21. Roman Banned Banned

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    Under Va. state law, there's nothing on them to convict them, criminally. Under the school judicial system, though, the men are held at fault. They can be put on probation, forced to take rape education classes, suspended or even expelled.

    The College also labels them rapists and sexual predators, and their cases sometimes made public.
     
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Obviously, your college's definition of rape is not totally in accord with the usual definition in the legal system.

    However, I must say that your college's approach to this issue in terms of educating young males seems to have a lot going for it. At some stage, it is good for young men to learn that although college can sometimes feel like a separate world, when they leave their actions in the "real world" will often have consequences. They will no longer be treated with kid gloves by the adult legal system. Therefore, it is a good idea to get used to that, before they really get themselves into serious trouble.
     
  23. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Geez, James, if college-aged kids don't know that rape is wrong, then a fuckin' little classroom preaching ain't gonna' do no fuckin' good!!

    Males learn the power over females very early in life ...some learn that women are to be protected and cared for; some learn that women are nothing but fuck-toys. That learning is so early that my guess is that "education" ain't gonna' change nothin'.

    Baron Max
     

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