Religion So Good? Why'd Christendom Fall?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Leo Volont, Jul 23, 2006.

  1. Leo Volont Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,509
    If Religion is So Good, Why Did Christendom Fail?

    Religion is necessary for Civilization. But the manifest Health and Longevity of any Civilization depends upon the degree to which its foundational Religion is True, Wise, Established, Institutionalized, and Integrated into its Cultural Life and Traditions.

    Well, Catholicism fell short in several areas. Jesus had predicted that there would be Weeds of falsehood mixed with the Wheat of Truth. The Last Prophet of the Jewish Religion, Simeon, had predicted that Jesus would be contradicted. And then it was predicted that the Reign of Christ on Earth would last a 1000 Years. Well it did. But not a minute longer. From the Papacy of Gregory the Great (the first Real Pope) to the Surrender of the Catholics to the Protestants at the Peace Conference of Westphalia, the span of years measured for Christendom was exactly a thousand yars. Well, a thousand years is quite an achievement. Many Civilizations don’t make it a fraction of that far. But still, why did Christendom eventually fall.

    Well, the Weeds in the Wheat was Paul. The Problem with Paul’s Contribution to the Christian Religion was that it was unwise. Paul was the genius that thought up ‘Salvation’. Well, what is ‘Salvation’, after all, but a license to Sin? Hmmmm, wasn’t the original point of Religion to keep people from Sinning? But apparently Paul was only concerned with punching up the numbers during his membership drives, and in the Greek World with its flagrant drunkenness and buggery, he rightly thought that a License to Sin would be an easier sell then a demand for Moral Rehabilitation. Paul’s Doctrine of Salvation would not be conducive to a lasting Civilization.

    Where Christendom was successful, and it was successful in establishing a Post-Roman Christian Civilization – the Only Civilization consolidated enough to defend against the Mongolian Barbarism that consumed the rest of the World – where this Catholic Civilization was successful was in ignoring the Letters and Doctrines of Paul. You see, before the Printing Press and Bible’s availability for Public Perusal, the Parish Priests could define for themselves what Doctrines they would emphasize to the People. And what they emphasized was Catholic Marianism. Catholicism effectively became a Goddess Religion. Righteousness was encouraged, and asceticism and spirituality were honored. Saints were the Rock Stars of this Christian Civilization.

    But there had been underlying problems – the Catholic Bishops. Understand that Medieval Europe was divided up between the Influence of the Bishops and the influence of the Religious Orders emanating from the Monasteries and Convents where the inmates were primarily Goddess Worshippsers – Marian Catholics. The Bishops were the Paulists, and because they believed in Salvation and the Forgiveness of Sins, they were inevitably and understandably corrupt (just as the Modern Bishops could not help but to have Scandals such as the Pedophile Disasters – when you Forgive Sin as a First Principle, then you are bound to have Sin… even create sin). This constant presence of Corruption with every Bishop in Europe was certain to have a divisive and enervating influence. Of course, even the Bishops were wise enough to keep the Knowledge of Pauline Doctrines to themselves. They knew better then to tell the common people they could sin. Remember what Augustine taught, the Doctrine of Divine Election – that Only a Special Few should be taught concerning Salvation – and that Special Few would be the Bishops… and certain Princes let in on the Secret.

    Then there was the invention of the Printing Press and the translation of the Bible into the Vernacular Languages. People were buying Bibles and reading them from cover to cover. The Antichrist Paul was being read with the same credence being given to Christ Himself. This would lead to the Protestant Rebellion where people such as Martin Luther would complain that the Church had deliberately conspired to keep the Teachings of Paul from being disseminated to the People … you see, Martin Luther had been surprised when he had gotten as far as Graduate School before his Professors had first expected him to have the first familiarity with Paul’s Letters. Luther had struggled with his impulses for sin – lust, drunkenness, lying, stealing, lending at interest, gluttony. But then when he read paul and found that he never really needed to care in the first place… that he would be FORGIVEN all that… well, he was indignant with the Catholic Leadership for not having told him sooner… for not having told everybody sooner that Life could be one slutty drunken free-for-all… all Blessed by God because the Jews had the good sense to murder Jesus when they had the chance.

    But this brings us to the collapse of Christendom. Marianism was supplanted by Paulism. High Spirituality and Conscientious Morality was replaced by the Libertinism of the Universal Forgiveness of Sins brought into favor by Protestantism, and of course by the Atheists that came upon their heals. Religion was cancelled out, and so Civilization could only collapse.

    Of course, Catholic Civilization had been successful at Integrating Morality into Cultural Behavior and Traditions. And so, even 5 Centuries after the defeat of Catholicism and Victory for the Protestant Barbarians, we still have some residual Morality simply from the Inertia of tradition, the momentum of customary behavior and habitual cultural expectations. But with every Generation we have young Barbarians of Insight who recognize that such ‘irrational’ Traditions and Customs are only holding them back from their real Potential – that of being Predatory Vikings – raping, pillaging, enslaving and exploiting… laughing at any suggestion of Guilt or Remorse. With every succeeding generation there will be ever more Republicans, and proud of it.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. iam Banned Banned

    Messages:
    700
    Stop lying. Catholicism doesn't have a monopoly on morality or spirituality as does any religion. Religion is a manmade political construct. Using a monotheistic god as an authority figure is a cheap and easy way to assume control. "I'm on god's side therefore I am right and you are wrong and I have the right to assume authority over you" tactics. The contents of the bible itself has been manipulated for centuries for political reasons which had nothing to do with the reverence or respect for 'truth'. Why don't you just say that religion is keeping the mass of jerks and jerkettes who are a hairbreadths away from being psychopathic criminals if they didn't believe a god would send them to hell for straying the moral line simultaneously and hypocritically cutting moral slack to those who wield that power.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2006
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Leo Volont Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,509
    Dear Iam,

    Well, you did not read my essay. That is my charitable opinion.

    If I was not so kind, I would say you are a rude retard.

    But I am kind. So take a reading comprehension class and then re-read what I have written.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Leo Volont Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,509
    Civilizations and the Religions that make them possible are not Absolutes. They are subject to degree.

    Take the design and construction of an Automobile as an example. Good Engineering is to an Automobile what a Good Religion is to a Civilization. If the engineering is not totally thought-out -- true and tested -- then, while the Automobile may still roll out of the factory on its own power, we might expect it to break down significantly sooner then a Well Engineered Car.

    Catholicism was able keep going for a 1000 years. But what I pointed out were the Engineering Flaws that caused its break down.

    Hopefully, the Next Civilization will be founded on a Religion with far less cracks and weaknesses. We could really use a New Bible. There have been enough Saints in Modern History. Write up their Stories and Revelations and we would have something better than then that Mess that caused our Break Down.
     
  8. Lawdog Digging up old bones Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,050
    That Salvation Doctrine of Paul sounds like what I need...!

    very interesting propositions, Leo
     
  9. Leo Volont Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,509
    Only it is not true.

    Glance over the history of the last 2000 years and see if you can honestly say that God has forgiven anybody for any sins.

    And then, if we were to look about and see a Class of Humanity that was blatantly Sinning and getting away with it because of some Supernatural Connections, then would we not rather think it is the Devil allowing for Sin, and NOT God.

    People think forgiveness of Sin is so wonderful. But what about the Victims? what about those people who are sinned against? Do you suppose they are happy that God would be issuing Hunting Licenses to some class of Sinful Predators?

    No. Sin is not right. No God I know would ever allow it. Whereever Sinners go when they die, it is NOT, it CANNOT be Heaven.
     
  10. battig1370 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    374
    "Why Did Christendom Fail?" --- Because the founder of christianity is Saul/St.Paul where his disciples were first called christians. Acts 11:26

    "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation ---" Matt. 12:25

    Christendom is divided into more than a thousand pieces and no one will be able to put the pieces together, instead this kingdom keeps dividing until ---?.
     
  11. Adstar Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,782
    christendom was not Christian, that’s why it failed. And you also have failed Leo.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  12. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,199
    Leo,

    I'm sure I don't fully appreciate your entire perspective so perhaps you can help here. Isn't it fundamental to every Christian (and I include you here) that everyone is a sinner? From what you say I suspect you do not see it that way. But if you do then from what you say would mean that heavan will always be empty.

    If the idea of Jesus was not to be a savior of people from their sins, i.e. the classic view, then what was/is his purpose?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2006
  13. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,199
    Leo,

    Would you agree that if we do wrong then we must take responsibility for those actions and deal with the consequences appropriately? Once done there is no way to undo a bad action.

    Is it your view that Christianity should be about ensuring people do not do wrong in the first place and then continuing to help them improve themselves through appropriate moral behavior?

    If people do stray and make poor choices, what are their options? Are they forever doomed? If saving through forgiveness is not an available route then what must they do?

    I do find the forgiveness concept of classic Christianity to be one of its most abhorrent.
     

Share This Page