Path of Least Resistance

[Satyr]

As I see it resistance is the key here.
Resistance becomes a metaphor for life against death or the universe in flux against order and perfection.
Life/Death - Evil/Good - Known/Unknown - Strength/Weakness - Perfection/Imperfection - Order/Disorder.........................

We become an existence in perpetual confrontation with a temporal flow (change); ephemeral order (awareness, knowledge, power) in the midst of growing chaos (incomprehensibility, disorder, unknown, weakness).

Culture and experience become known pathways made familiar through repetition.

We fall into behavioural patterns because we choose the paths that least resist our Will - even if we derive our greatest sense of achievement by taking the “…path not taken…” .

We pretend to be above or beyond instinct or intuition and we disapprove of reason and logic even when we claim to be rational, free, beings, above categories and generalizations.
But how can we transcend patterns when we cannot resist them?
How do we resist patterns when we cannot even recognize, admit and control them?

It’s easy to say that we are above gender generalizations, for example, when we cannot even perceive sexual objectives in our behaviour.

Things become easy because they have been treaded upon.
The familiar and commonplace become easy and natural whereas the difficult and the unnatural seems hard.
How easy is it to step on another’s path?
How easy is it to cut through a jungle another has already cleared a path through?

Is it not the same for mental jungles?
How easy is it to think in accordance to previous thoughts?
Is this not the root of all morality and civilization and culture?
Do we not follow, blindly, behind another and judge our progress in relation to his?
Is this not a meme?

Even music becomes comprehensible as a repetitive pattern which echoes primordial biological rhythms and offers us that sense of familiar ease.
We recognize, in music, a familiar beat, a repetitive rhythm made all the more attractive due to its repetition.
We feel its ease and we connect to our being.

Thoughts?

[perplexity]

Dukkha

--- Ron

[Tnerb]

I'll give "thoughts" later I promise, it's just very difficult reading through these words---I only wanted to say Satyr, that i'm sorry for saying I don't like you, as, it is not true. I think you're actually pretty cool: besides the point, as I say I didn't mean it, and... keep it up?

---Brent

[seeing not sure]

good thoughts!

Early philosophers continue to amaze me. WOW! Life based on resistance... such a beautiful concept!

I have witnessed myself acting very strangely when tempted with sex, or another similar pleasure...practically beyond my own will.

The fact that we all congregate with one another according to our familiarities, goes with this concept as well. We are all apart of a pattern, and no one even realizes it. Cliche concepts rule over all of us, just because the path is shared by others, with least resistance. God forbid we be alone! (Pun not intended)

The same goes for our history and future. As endless generations pass, history continuously repeats itself under the influence of human control. Whether from ignorance, or from an attempt to "finish one's work" or something.

Music, I think, doesnt really follow this pattern though. Music is divided in mathmatical measurements of time, yes... however, music in itself is completely meaningless if you look at the relevancy of it to our survival. (I guess this goes back to creation..) Art, it seems, shouldn't exist. Why do we appreciate art? Is it because we can relate our own emotions and struggles to the content? Or is it just a passtime that developed out of civilized living (not needing to hunt for food all the time, etc.).

which brings me to another concept: boredom!
when we are treated with a concept over and over, we begin to become almost too familiar with it. Such as, for instance, trees. They are incredibly complex! amazing how this great strong lifeform can reproduce and grow over such a long period of time, enduring great struggles. yet, we drive by them in our shiny cars without paying them any heed.

[Tnerb]

practically beyond my own will.

had to comment here, seeing:
I believe what people to believe "responsibility", also, "will", as when for example talking about "beyond my will"---they see the will as stronger than it is. My name, existabrent, as i've said numerous times... (??)---is very serious about that.

Anyway, I guess my point is that when you are saying you are acting without or beyond your will, there is actually a huge nothingness there, which...
isn't good rather, it is the opposite:

It is simple, the fact is that "your own will" is actually nothing. It is all a bunch of what satyr continues to talk about
hell i guess

[seeing not sure]

you are definitely right, but i should have used "reasoning" instead of will.

as in, my best reasoning said I should not get involved with this girl who is pushing herself onto me, but my brain seems to outweigh the pleasure with the consequences of allowing this girl to think I am attracted to her in more than a physical way. 1 hour of pleasure (varies ), this girl experiencing emotional pain.

JUST AN EXAMPLE!

sigh..this'll continue to snowball into a more complicated discussion, i can see it now.

[locomotive]

hmm interesting satyr. I have a few comments.

"We fall into behavioural patterns because we choose the paths that least resist our Will"
This is a crucial part. We do not choose the path that least resists our will because then we would be very proficient. It is the opposite. We try a quick way out("least") by chasing a dream, forcing etc. but it doesn't work like we would hope it to work. Therefore it is the most resistent. We feel we are achieving something, we are progressing and meeting a goal but this very idea is false whitch becomes obvious if you would just "wake up" and see what you are actually doing. So the conclusion is we choose the path that is in our view the fastest whereas our view is a thing of the past. How can you know the fastest way in the mids of the unknown if you are forever in the past, in the known? How can you find order in chaos if you are looking for an order that is by itself of the past? etc etc etc.
Example: you have tension and you try to get rid of it by tensing.
you are relaxing and you try to relax more by force whitch is tension.

But I agree satyr. It is all about the least resistance/easiest/that which works/conservation of energy bla bla.

[Touchwood]

As I see it resistance is the key here.
Resistance becomes a metaphor for life ...<roughly hewn>
We recognize, in music, a familiar beat, a repetitive rhythm made all the more attractive due to its repetition.
We feel its ease and we connect to our being.

Thoughts?

We're running on rails, sit back and enjoy the ride. Is that what you mean?

[Tnerb]

sigh..this'll continue to snowball into a more complicated discussion, i can see it now.

likely was my fault to begin with.

this is madness pure and simple although locomotive has given an incredible post IMO.
Anyhow that's all for now, and satyr,
"be a buddhist",
it's as simple as that, your choice.
-Brent

[Tnerb]

***We interrupt this program for a scheduled existabrent thunder show***

As I see it resistance is the key here.

Resistance?

Resistance becomes a metaphor for life against death or the universe in flux against order and perfection.

Of course though it doesn't necessarially have to be viewed from that POV. When every word you type is taken to the extreme, you're kinda opposed to resistance to it.. just tellin ya, as ya seemed to be interested.

Life/Death - Evil/Good - Known/Unknown - Strength/Weakness - Perfection/Imperfection - Order/Disorder.........................

Now, don't tell me you have some disorder or something if ya do Go to a docter, just be happy's all. I don't understand quite the line of questioning as I sometimes call (LOT Line of thought).

We become an existence in perpetual confrontation with a temporal flow (change); ephemeral order (awareness, knowledge, power) in the midst of growing chaos (incomprehensibility, disorder, unknown, weakness).

That is better!
But.
Of course, this isn't necessarially the correct POV. As I like to say a lot, "everything's been figured out, so, what's the use?" Everything you say has been done, is already known---that's why I get so pissed off at women! They're talking about creating a woman world and stupid such shit, while the rainforrests still aren't saved! What the fuck! Think positive!

Of course though satyr, what you're saying, could be true. It just takes the thought. That thought,
requires some thought lol

Culture and experience become known pathways made familiar through repetition.

It's sort of funny, speaking of "culture".
I'm 20 btw but i've not had an apt social encounter since I first started to downfall. Besides the point,
I don't see your point. If you wish to reply that's fine I'm doing this out of my own "will".

We fall into behavioural patterns because we choose the paths that least resist our Will - even if we derive our greatest sense of achievement by taking the “…path not taken…” .

I would have to sort of agree; though it doesn't necessarially have to occur from such; many do not fall into such a path, although, if i follow right, ...
damn i forgot.

We pretend to be above or beyond instinct or intuition and we disapprove of reason and logic even when we claim to be rational, free, beings, above categories and generalizations.

But how can we transcend patterns when we cannot resist them?
How do we resist patterns when we cannot even recognize, admit and control them?

There's your question that you have, basically, asked me. I would go back. But I refuse to.
Patterns can be resisted.
We resist patterns by being ourselfs. Have you noticed some people. They just seem to be above and beyond this, I think perception is key, or somethin like that. Anyways, I see your point. Your point is simply "how do I resist this, when I cannot resist this."
Existabrent---you fucking retard. You have no clue.

You're probably right satyr, but what I do have a clue about, is that... there are different people---different perceptions. Restiance is always possible. It is highly possible to escape or leave. Otherwise I would myself call this normal.

It’s easy to say that we are above gender generalizations, for example, when we cannot even perceive sexual objectives in our behaviour.

It's possible we have some things in common. Though, you type much better than I do
It is definate that some sexualize their experiences. It is positive that this has all already been figured out.
But, those things exist if I follow you.
These things are all too real you are in control of your own life. I guess.

Things become easy because they have been treaded upon.
The familiar and commonplace become easy and natural whereas the difficult and the unnatural seems hard.
How easy is it to step on another’s path?
How easy is it to cut through a jungle another has already cleared a path through?

Okay, I see your point now. Not bad. As to your first two sentences, ...
hey, if you wanna ask somethin ask.
Third sentence: all too easy.
4th: too easy it is bothersome.

Is it not the same for mental jungles?

i'm a poke fun critic.

How easy is it to think in accordance to previous thoughts?

My god. I could type out endless shit here. I am doing this for you, as, ... whatever.

Is this not the root of all morality and civilization and culture?

Very close, I'm not sure you yourself are on the right track but asuredly very close. As I myself am not either.

Do we not follow, blindly, behind another and judge our progress in relation to his?
Is this not a meme?

Not necessarially. I think you're funny sometimes.

Even music becomes comprehensible as a repetitive pattern which echoes primordial biological rhythms and offers us that sense of familiar ease.
We recognize, in music, a familiar beat, a repetitive rhythm made all the more attractive due to its repetition.
We feel its ease and we connect to our being.

ya know, philosophy is madness. you're gonna be thinkin about how music "really" sounds, next.

Thoughts?

why not...
Shit, don't take shit so seriously, don't path of least resistance it, try to think in terms of it's your life and the internet is harmful. Or else, you will simply make yourself worse, and worse and worse. It's as if you're on the c omputer doing what i was doing in my notebooks. You should quit being fed up.

Path of least resistance is path of least knowledge.
kidding satyr.

[S.A.M.]

As I see it resistance is the key here.
Resistance becomes a metaphor for life against death or the universe in flux against order and perfection.
Life/Death - Evil/Good - Known/Unknown - Strength/Weakness - Perfection/Imperfection - Order/Disorder.........................

We become an existence in perpetual confrontation with a temporal flow (change); ephemeral order (awareness, knowledge, power) in the midst of growing chaos (incomprehensibility, disorder, unknown, weakness).

Culture and experience become known pathways made familiar through repetition.

We fall into behavioural patterns because we choose the paths that least resist our Will - even if we derive our greatest sense of achievement by taking the “…path not taken…” .

We pretend to be above or beyond instinct or intuition and we disapprove of reason and logic even when we claim to be rational, free, beings, above categories and generalizations.
But how can we transcend patterns when we cannot resist them?
How do we resist patterns when we cannot even recognize, admit and control them?

It’s easy to say that we are above gender generalizations, for example, when we cannot even perceive sexual objectives in our behaviour.

Things become easy because they have been treaded upon.
The familiar and commonplace become easy and natural whereas the difficult and the unnatural seems hard.
How easy is it to step on another’s path?
How easy is it to cut through a jungle another has already cleared a path through?

Is it not the same for mental jungles?
How easy is it to think in accordance to previous thoughts?
Is this not the root of all morality and civilization and culture?
Do we not follow, blindly, behind another and judge our progress in relation to his?
Is this not a meme?

Even music becomes comprehensible as a repetitive pattern which echoes primordial biological rhythms and offers us that sense of familiar ease.
We recognize, in music, a familiar beat, a repetitive rhythm made all the more attractive due to its repetition.
We feel its ease and we connect to our being.

Thoughts?

The way I see it, you are talking about change.

i.e. who moved my cheese?

So people fear change, they find themselves unable to deal with change easily, they use old familiar patterns of response when confronted with unknown situtaions, they are unwilling to accept new ways of doing old things, they live in denial when confronted by change, i.e. they resist change.

So why do you think change is so uncomfortable a notion? After all the entire human civilization has been defined by our ability to change...

[Cyperium]

As I see it resistance is the key here.
Resistance becomes a metaphor for life against death or the universe in flux against order and perfection.
Life/Death - Evil/Good - Known/Unknown - Strength/Weakness - Perfection/Imperfection - Order/Disorder.........................

We become an existence in perpetual confrontation with a temporal flow (change); ephemeral order (awareness, knowledge, power) in the midst of growing chaos (incomprehensibility, disorder, unknown, weakness).

Culture and experience become known pathways made familiar through repetition.

We fall into behavioural patterns because we choose the paths that least resist our Will - even if we derive our greatest sense of achievement by taking the “…path not taken…” .

We pretend to be above or beyond instinct or intuition and we disapprove of reason and logic even when we claim to be rational, free, beings, above categories and generalizations.
But how can we transcend patterns when we cannot resist them?
How do we resist patterns when we cannot even recognize, admit and control them?

It’s easy to say that we are above gender generalizations, for example, when we cannot even perceive sexual objectives in our behaviour.

Things become easy because they have been treaded upon.
The familiar and commonplace become easy and natural whereas the difficult and the unnatural seems hard.
How easy is it to step on another’s path?
How easy is it to cut through a jungle another has already cleared a path through?

Is it not the same for mental jungles?
How easy is it to think in accordance to previous thoughts?
Is this not the root of all morality and civilization and culture?
Do we not follow, blindly, behind another and judge our progress in relation to his?
Is this not a meme?

Even music becomes comprehensible as a repetitive pattern which echoes primordial biological rhythms and offers us that sense of familiar ease.
We recognize, in music, a familiar beat, a repetitive rhythm made all the more attractive due to its repetition.
We feel its ease and we connect to our being.

Thoughts?

It is a principle. There are more principles, and they don't work alone. But finding the whole reason for a principle is seeing it working throughout it all. Each principle has this nature (that's why I think it's so fun discovering principles). However, as I said, it wouldn't work if they were alone, so I guess we just have to face that it works because all principles work throughout it all.


By the way, it's very very amazing, profound even, that when it was created, first a principle, wow it works, everything works through this principle. Then oh, another one, ahhh it works through this too, amazing. Then comes hundred principles more which intertwine them all and everything works again! Profound.

[nicholas1M7]

Dukkha

--- Ron

Yes. But is there a solution to Dukkha?

I would suggest methods to loosen the stronghold of ego that tethers and anchors oneself.

[Tnerb]

Agreed Nicholas. I believe sam said it well also.

[Tnerb]

Cyperium

Profound.

Is this carcasm?

Were you refering to me?
yes, you were right indeed, my thoughts, MY, thoughts, spanned from one analysis, and then were infurated as it took my thinking I was stupid.

Either way, it don't have to keep going.
What do ya say?
PM me please, or I will you.

[nicholas1M7]

As I see it resistance is the key here.
Resistance becomes a metaphor for life against death or the universe in flux against order and perfection.
Life/Death - Evil/Good - Known/Unknown - Strength/Weakness - Perfection/Imperfection - Order/Disorder.........................

We become an existence in perpetual confrontation with a temporal flow (change); ephemeral order (awareness, knowledge, power) in the midst of growing chaos (incomprehensibility, disorder, unknown, weakness).

Culture and experience become known pathways made familiar through repetition.

We fall into behavioural patterns because we choose the paths that least resist our Will - even if we derive our greatest sense of achievement by taking the “…path not taken…” .

We pretend to be above or beyond instinct or intuition and we disapprove of reason and logic even when we claim to be rational, free, beings, above categories and generalizations.

Correct. Repetition suffocates, suppresses, shrouds, perpetrates and selects our own wills to power. But it is the necessary, though insufficient "meta-state" of existence that creates structure and coherence in our lives. The cynicism we know comes from repetition. I believe it was Hume who made the distinction between the validities of causality and association, logical thought and empirical reality. Where repetition presents the ever-illusive affront science and philosophy can only hope to elucidate between causality and association, but can never. Y may follow X, but it is not necessarily that X is the cause of Y. Not to mention, there is self-referrence to make the Mount Everest of wonder impossible, "this statement is a lie". Such existences can be argued as neither true nor false. But hey, we can always skip the crap and smoke weed all day, thus releiving ourselves of the plague that pupose and responsibility garantees in intervals. Or find something that provides an equally satisfactory alternative. I have always been privy to new things.

But how can we transcend patterns when we cannot resist them?
How do we resist patterns when we cannot even recognize, admit and control them?

You have to be a god to transcend patterns. Or you can welcome new ones and experience as much satifaction as any god might feel at the birth of existence.

It’s easy to say that we are above gender generalizations, for example, when we cannot even perceive sexual objectives in our behaviour.

I think we can perceive sexual objectives. There have been few anomalies of people in history who not only celebrated anstinence, but were unabashed by mere social and physiological "needs".

Things become easy because they have been treaded upon.
The familiar and commonplace become easy and natural whereas the difficult and the unnatural seems hard.
How easy is it to step on another’s path?
How easy is it to cut through a jungle another has already cleared a path through?

This is probably not beyond a matter of investigative and calculative measures.

Is it not the same for mental jungles?
How easy is it to think in accordance to previous thoughts?
Is this not the root of all morality and civilization and culture?
Do we not follow, blindly, behind another and judge our progress in relation to his?
Is this not a meme?

That is the "problem with philosophy" right there is it not? The "disease" as you described in the thread of that name. An exercise in futility.

[locomotive]

"So why do you think change is so uncomfortable a notion? After all the entire human civilization has been defined by our ability to change... "

because we put so much faith in and value upon the old methods. Once the methods have been seen for what they are there is no reason to continue using them.

"always skip the crap and smoke weed all day, thus releiving ourselves of the plague that pupose and responsibility garantees in intervals. Or find something that provides an equally satisfactory alternative. I have always been privy to new things.
"
Weed relaxes muscles and can give a feeling of there is no responsibility but some can still feel responsibility if they pay attention to it when doing drugs and therefore they need a bigger fix.
There is a conflict in the behaviour you mentioned. If I feel responsible then that means that I want to do this and that, does it not? If not then I do not want to do this- so what's the fuss all about? Either find the middle way or pick one or the other. However in most people there is a struggle. Some call it choosing. This choosing is a concept. You could see a leaf go left and a human go right and say they chose to do this but there is no awareness of the choosing process, is there? The choice that has been made from nowhere is seen and choice itself is also a concept dependant on form, timing etc. Some people belief that they are choosing, that they are aware of the choosing instead of just the result of a mechanism that goes on in your unconsciousness.
Feeling you have to do something means that you really feel yourself going somewhere. If you try to stop that going what will happen? conflict that feels bad, because pain does indeed feel bad, and you try in turn to run away from that. try looking to the left with both eyes and to the right at the same time..
"An exercise in futility."

[perplexity]

Yes. But is there a solution to Dukkha?

I would suggest methods to loosen the stronghold of ego that tethers and anchors oneself.

That in turn would seem to suggest that it is possible to carry on regardless except that without an ego you would then feel nothing.

Suffering, the resistance in life, is inevitable and you'll feel it with or with out an ego.

To avoid the resistance design a method to do so, as suggested above, the line of least resistance. It is not so difficult to do with the appropriate will.

Most of what goes wrong is life is self inflicted because of the human appetite for drama, the urge to experiment, to test the limit, to be involved with all sorts of business and adventure that was not required to be our business except to be tempted to relieve a sense of boredom or ambition.

I find that it helps for instance to keep oneself to oneself and to switch the television off, once and for all.

Without all the extra clutter life is peaceful enough.

--- Ron.

[Satyr]

hmm interesting satyr. I have a few comments.

"We fall into behavioural patterns because we choose the paths that least resist our Will"
This is a crucial part. We do not choose the path that least resists our will because then we would be very proficient. It is the opposite. We try a quick way out("least") by chasing a dream, forcing etc.

Dreams, hopes, ambitions are cultural constructs.
We acquire our visions of destiny from the world around us and then strive to live up to its expectations.
This is why identity is always mirrored in others.
We attempt to overcome ourselves, our not-chosen identity/role/part, by overcoming the other which forces us to play the part.

If I dream of being rich it’s because I exist in an environment where this is relevant.

Even the language I speak to myself with is culturally determined, in that it uses cultural ideals and symbols to express an existential issue.

Culture is a shared language and interpretation of patterns.
I comprehend you because we share a perspective on patterns.

but it doesn't work like we would hope it to work. Therefore it is the most resistent.

Nothing “works out as it’s supposed to”.
This because man is imperfect supposing a perfect state and trying to realize it.
Disappointment is a natural consequence.

But more than this we fail to predict things because we fail to perceive and/or incorporate all the sensual information available to us into concise, accurate abstractions.
Memory is selective and the mind oversimplifies infinite reality, possibility, so as to fit it into its finitude.
Generalization is how he conceptualize.

We believe something is truth when we’ve taken into account enough information and created a model with it which we can use to predict outcomes.
Success tells us we’re on the right path.

But no model is completely accurate and only relatively so.
Much of success is due to blind chance or due to the fact that we are making predictions in an environment where the others share in our perceptions of reality.

In essence we are creating models of a model or using a common model as our standard.
Culture is such a model.

So the conclusion is we choose the path that is in our view the fastest whereas our view is a thing of the past.

Everything is viewed in the past.
By creating abstraction (models) we collect sensual information and analyze them after the fact.

When I say “I”, I am referring to an ambiguous unity existing as an incomplete abstractions of the past or what has already occurred or has been already been chosen as an entity resisting disintegration.
My choice appears determined because I am viewing it when it has already been made.

I am a creature (a biological unity) which exists as a perpetual resistance to flux (time, change, chaos), a self-restricting union of parts seeking order, stability.
This choice is made continuously and unconsciously as an expression of my becoming. Unconsciously because consciousness, as Sartre would say, is the act of negation. I must create a distance between myself and that which I am becoming conscious of – even if this is myself (self-consciousness) – so as to analyze it in hindsight or disconnected from it.
This characteristic of consciousness creates the illusion of a mind/body duality and enables the myth of spirit.

How can you know the fastest way in the mids of the unknown if you are forever in the past, in the known?

Exactly.
The “known” is a choice already made and so limited in a particular time/space and so it becomes comprehensible.
Every choice limits our possibilities.
We exclude infinity by creating finitude. We call this the past.
The past then becomes part of our being, up to that point – a symbol of our character, our history which displays us; written in stone and accessible to all for judgment.

History cannot be rewritten – even if it can be reinterpreted – and it participates in our future because we are always looking backwards for comprehension and so we are affected by what we’ve become familiar with.
Our mind has become accustomed and so finds the repetition of the chosen to be easy.

How can you find order in chaos if you are looking for an order that is by itself of the past?

Order is in the past because in a universe in flux there is no stagnate permanence.
Entropy disorganizes and reorganizes continuously. This creates a temporal direction.

Life is a counter-reaction to this. It seeks to become more stable by becoming more efficient in its temporary ordering.
This occurs through autopoesis.
The organism separates itself from the other(s) with a membrane.
This cuts it off, limits it and distinguishes it as a form. It creates a barrier between itself and the flux and attempts to organize itself within it; harmonize and stabilize itself; empower itself. It seeks to separate itself from the time/space and become permanent/eternal (survival).


existabrent
Patterns are systems of inter-relationships we either seek to escape by disconnecting ourselves from them (becoming indifferent/free/independent/individual) or we try to integrate ourselves within (becoming enslaved/protected/depednant/unfree/community).


samcdkey

So why do you think change is so uncomfortable a notion? After all the entire human civilization has been defined by our ability to change...

By our ability to adapt to change.

We are creatures of change. So we find change to be our natural state.
We abhor change and yet become bored (superfluous) without it.
This is the irony.

We seek to reach a state which would eliminate our necessity. We strive for our own obsolescence.

When we seek pleasure and paradise and order we seek our oblivion.

Our existence is suffering. When we hope to end suffering we, unconsciously, hope to end living.
We dream of absolutes as a way of dreaming about the end to the flux which created us and which we experience as suffering.


nicholas1M7

Correct. Repetition suffocates, suppresses, shrouds, perpetrates and selects our own wills to power. But it is the necessary, though insufficient "meta-state" of existence that creates structure and coherence in our lives.

And therein lies the absurdity of life.
The Tragic/Comic the Hellenes were so aware of.

Where repetition presents the ever-illusive affront science and philosophy can only hope to elucidate between causality and association, but can never.

Isn’t logic another way of saying repetitive predictability?

You have to be a god to transcend patterns. Or you can welcome new ones and experience as much satifaction as any god might feel at the birth of existence.

Yes, and there lies the meaninglessness of life.
To want to Be what you can never and to find solace (dignity, purpose) in fighting the un-winnable fight. To be defined by what you hopelessly, hope to be.

That is the "problem with philosophy" right there is it not? The "disease" as you described in the thread of that name. An exercise in futility.

Yes. Consciousness or self-consciousness is the disease or it is the awakening to disease.
The eternal state of dissatisfaction being defined by its dissatisfaction and thinking it can find satisfaction, even if this would entail its own demise.

The absurdity of the human condition, sometimes raised to holiness.
At least animals or matter never get to become conscious of this absurdity. They are spared the awareness of their own futility.

So what is the alternative, you may ask?
Dance.
Dance like Zorba did.
Embrace it all.
Suffering is not your foe. It is the experience of living.
Do not avoid life.
Welcome the pains and the pleasures equally.

“I hope for nothing, I fear nothing; I am free” – Kazantzakis.
The Hellenic spirit exemplified.
Apollo/Dionysus contained in a single being.

[nicholas1M7]

nicholas1M7
And therein lies the absurdity of life.
The Tragic/Comic the Hellenes were so aware of.

Isn’t logic another way of saying repetitive predictability?

Yes, and there lies the meaninglessness of life.
To want to Be what you can never and to find solace (dignity, purpose) in fighting the un-winnable fight. To be defined by what you hopelessly, hope to be.

Yes. Consciousness or self-consciousness is the disease or it is the awakening to disease.
The eternal state of dissatisfaction being defined by its dissatisfaction and thinking it can find satisfaction, even if this would entail its own demise.

The absurdity of the human condition, sometimes raised to holiness.
At least animals or matter never get to become conscious of this absurdity. They are spared the awareness of their own futility.

So what is the alternative, you may ask?
Dance.
Dance like Zorba did.
Embrace it all.
Suffering is not your foe. It is the experience of living.
Do not avoid life.
Welcome the pains and the pleasures equally.

“I hope for nothing, I fear nothing; I am free” – Kazantzakis.
The Hellenic spirit exemplified.
Apollo/Dionysus contained in a single being.

Does existence have a purpose? I don't know. But I found some attempt made by someone to proove so. I couldn't get past the first two paragraphs because I never studied philosophy formally but I was curious about it at least.

In the most general sense, purpose is a logical operation.
In that respect, any "purpose" must reside within a
subdomain of the set of all "if then " statements.

If A then B

A

therefore B

Due to the logically consistent hierarchy of the necessity
of the spatio-temporal sequencing of events and processes,
we do observe the logically ordered hierarchy. Reality must
be logically consistent or we would not exist.

Therefore, because of the paradoxical ramifications of a
"set of all possible sets", where any purpose is required
to be a subset of the set of all logically consistent sets,
we consequently realize that if reality as a whole is
logically consistent, then it must resolve this paradox as
it resolves all paradoxes.

The absolute necessity and universality of this logical
coherence requires a stratified hierarchy of variables and
meta-variables, instantiating causal feedback loops. In
effect, reality forms its own purpose via a self similar
feedback control circuit. A self aware mind.

Any system of logic must ultimately be amenable to a
2-valued logic, in that the proposition is either True or
not-True.


A concept is amenable to a description.

Descriptions must also be amenable to 2 valued logic.

So it becomes an issue of how complete must the description
be, in order for a sufficient logical analysis, e.g. a
"proof".

Description of G is incomplete but that does not prove the
non-existence of G.

The structural properties of distinct entities, for example
- lemons, oranges and apples, share mutual differences that
ultimately manifest themselves as a higher order
similarity. This higher order similarity, consequently
forms a distinct unit in and of itself - ultimately leading
to the realization of a highest ordered relation, a
singular unit that comprises all possible distinctions.

The sub-interrelated entities or units, are distinctions
that function with causal "if then" ramifications. The
clear cut distinctions are the result of a causal nexus,
the highest possible distinction, or unit, in the logical
food chain of if-then statements. This nexus cannot be
separate from itself. Therefore reality must be self
creating.

Incomplete definitions can still be logically consistent
when they are represented by labels. Labels can refer to
necessary concepts. A set is a necessary concept, but is a
set a completely defined concept?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory

Quote:
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...set theory provides the language in which mathematical
objects are described. It is (along with logic and the
predicate calculus) one of the axiomatic foundations for
mathematics, allowing mathematical objects to be
constructed formally from the undefined terms of "set", and
"set membership".
====================
===================


Omnipotence generates an ostensible paradox due to our
limited knowledge, where it appears that the logic of
juxtapositional contraposition, in spite of its
justification by the standard truth tables for
propositional logic, becomes deductively invalid via a
semantic twist of fate. Say that entity X is defined as
being "omnipotent". Can X create a rock too heavy for X to
lift? If yes, then X is not omnipotent. If no then X is
also not omnipotent. But when omnipotence is defined as
being truly transcendental in nature, that is to say,
omnipotence is the ability to transcend any logical
framework, then the paradox loses its bite. Of course
transcendental arguments then lose coherence because
"anything goes".

In order to quantify and qualify transcendence it
consequently becomes necessary to stratify
transcendence/omnipotence as a system of sequentially
related meta logical variables in arbitrary logical order.
AKA TIME. The exact relationships need not be precisely
defined as long as it is required as a necessary condition
that the relands are systematically and comprehensively
ordered, even though the complete network is not tabulated
down to the last quanta of information.

In other words omnipotence is not without a measure of
control - with respect to the controlling entity. It
becomes a matter of willful non-contradiction on the part
of the entity in question.

Yes, it seems that not all declarative sentences determine
a speci�c proposition, in that any proposition must
be capable of being determined to be either true or false.
Consequently, certain ambiguities force us to determine
that some sentences will require additional
speci�cations in order to express a proposition as
most definitely true or false.

Thus certain fields of meta-analysis exist. We must parse
the necessary and sufficient conditions - with regards to
the staus quo, in reference to the consensical collective.
To wit, does an independent mind exist outside the
collective opinions of those of us? Alas, the shifting
sands of context relevancy determine linguistic
uncertainty, where the necessarily quantifiable parameters
cannot be cordoned off by feeble human intellects grasping
at the straws of fate.

I am just guessing here : yes the definitional parameters
create boundaries of inclusion and exclusion, where the
linguistic mapping necessarily becomes an evolving dynamic.
Any specific premise must be included within a larger
generality where that larger generality is simply a more
specific premise to be included within increasingly higher
levels of generality[I am also assuming that a finite
number of set theoretic inclusions might exist].

These generalities map onto the actual reality in question
as a set theoretic relation. Aristotelian logic provides a
linguistic platform from which multivalued logics represent
the evolving dynamic of the language, which then must be
beholden to the 2-valued logic, such that any particular
statement of the multivalued evolving dynamic, will be
either true or not-true within its respective domain of
applicability and therefore it becomes a highly adaptible
mapping to the reality that is represented. Of course that
might appear to assume that the highest, most inclusive
level is 2-valued logic... Not really though. 2-valued
logic is beholden to the law of identity. Identity is an
invariant. Yes, symmetry forms the basis of truth.



http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0165798/quotes

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Existing where there is nothing is the meaning of the
phrase, "form is emptiness."

That all things are provided for by nothingness is the
meaning of the phrase, "Emptiness is form."

One should not think that these are two separate things.

[...]

There is surely nothing other than the single purpose of
the moment.

A man's whole life is a succession of moment after moment.

If one fully understands the present moment, there is
nothing left to do, and nothing else to pursue.

====================
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The existential manifold forms the basis of our perceptual
infrastructure, from which, the distinct attributes of the
whole form relative identities with respect to the other
attributes. Understanding follows from awareness of self
and to fully understand the present moment is an end to the
means, for our perceptual field of dreams.

I just boil it down to "purpose defines existence". Logic and causality are interlinked, but are not necessary to exist. We as a species live by logic in an everyday sense. But we add to it our animal perceptions. So while we're intelligent enough to form concepts, we envy animals for being spared this awareness and cynicism of existence. Animals who aren't intelligent enough to form concepts might see relations. And if not might simply be a living automaton such as a worm or snail, living merely by sense. But in a way we blind and lose ourselves because a part of us envies the lower lifeform. But I believe even animals must have a sense of purpose, whether or not they are intelligent enough to recognize value in it is a matter of their sense of selves and states in relation to their kin. But only in relation to their kin, not beyond. So it is with us. Our egos are what makes us animals in that way.