06-13-06, 11:21 PM #1
Global Warming: The Time to Fight is Now
Some say the irreversible effects of Global Warming are less than thirty years away. Others say it's already too late. Either way, the time to fight is now. We can no longer remain in the shadows of denial.
06-13-06, 11:22 PM #2
Too bad global warming is not the result of man kind. Why not educate yourself?
06-13-06, 11:23 PM #3
well noone is in the shadows of denial...greenhouse there is.
Problem is, what are we supposed to do about it? I know what...run to Mars, heck with Earth, its too late.
06-14-06, 12:03 AM #4
Actually there's hard evidence, it's no longer a theory.
Global Warming is an eventuality that is happening to us at this very moment.
CO2 levels have never been as high as this year in the history of the world. We can all thank polution for that one.
What can we do?
Some say it's too late?
but the Earth is known for compensating and reparing itself, i.e Ozone Layer being patched up.
So there is hope. We can start by a source such as hydrogen for Cars and other appliances like weed wackers, as a opposed to gas.
06-14-06, 12:13 AM #5
Let's take a look at this site: http://web.dmi.dk/solar-terrestrial/space_weather/
Here is a pretty graph:
The red curve illustrates the solar activity, which is generally increasing through an interval of 100 years, since the cycle lenght has decreased from around 11.5 years to less than 10 years. Within the same interval the Earth's average temperature as indicated by the blue curve has increased by approximately 0.7 degree C. Even the finer structures in the two curves have similar appearances.
06-14-06, 12:24 AM #6
Originally Posted by valich
Already you deny that the time came and went.
Before you fix the future you got to pay back the borrowed time.
06-14-06, 12:53 AM #7
Did anyone watch Al Gore get on that bum Larry King's show? He was talking about how he intends to open America's eyes to the doom of global warming and how it "can be stopped" and it was plain to see he didn't know any of the technical details of the phenomenon save for "it's bad".
06-14-06, 09:43 AM #8
The US remains a signatory to the Kyoto protocol in 'spirit' only and refuses to ratify the treaty on purely economic grounds. China and India who are other large producers of greenhouse gasses are entirely exempt, so their greenhouse gas emission goes unchecked; who can blame them right? Every country has the right to develop, but at what cost? Climate change is a very real concern and I think that much is obvious by now.
So the dilemma is what is more of a priority, economic progress or the environment? As humans we seem wait for our problems to blow up in our faces till we start to really do anything about it.
Should the United States ratify the Kyoto protocol?
Should India be pressured to reduce their greenhouse emission?
Indians get away with murder...
06-14-06, 10:07 AM #9
06-14-06, 10:35 AM #10
100,000,000 years ago, the earth was a lot hotter than it is today, and there were no people and so no human polution. Then the ice ages came. The last ice age ended 10,000 years ago, and it was not ended by (or caused by) the effects of the the industrial revolution, because there was no industry. The earth continues to heat up today, and noone is exactly sure why. Certainly the emission of greehouse gasses doesn't help, but eliminating all emissions will hardly stop what seems to be a natural swing upwards of earth's average temperature.
06-14-06, 10:37 AM #11Originally Posted by scibetel
06-14-06, 10:41 AM #12
06-14-06, 11:47 AM #13
Yes, in "State of Fear" the pseudoscience of eugenics is a good paradigm for all the noise, politics, ignorance and mis-information that surround "global warming."
Indeed, if we just called global warming PTF (periodic temperature fluctuation) noone would feel desperately motivated to do anything.
06-14-06, 12:49 PM #14Originally Posted by scibetel
The Earth is properly cooled from that now, so that certain doesn't count.
Don't fall into that myth that they tell you about Global Warming not being a fact. It is, the charts are very real on this. Never has it been so hot, 2005 holds the record (not counting the Earth's cooling itself from being a ball of lava). Nor has the C02 level been this high.
And lets take a look at Florida. It used it have 4 hurricanes a year, now it's a whopping 15. Wouldn't you take a look at this and be a little concerned? Many area's such as the Swetish Alps are now almost melted completely. Certain forests now have trees going thru an effect called "drunken trees", in which certain radiation damage has caused them to limp over and start to undergo an unusual color.
There are obvious effects happening around the world, but people are not noticing any of it. Other than that there's denile, and people who profit off of products such as gas in which they don't want to stop their profit for the environment.
and allow me to show you a little graph of my own.
Last edited by Regulus; 06-14-06 at 12:55 PM.
06-14-06, 02:04 PM #15
Nobody said it wasn't a fact; the question is What's the cause?
06-14-06, 02:12 PM #16
Originally Posted by valich
Given the miserable track record of human government over the past six or eight thousand years, randomly toggling from despotism to theocracy to militarism to terminal hubris to plain old bureaucratic incompetence, does anyone seriously believe that an experiment with Quasi-Environmental Populism is going to make the world a better place?
It's not at all clear that even if all six billion of us smoked some weed and sat down for a rousing chorus of "Koom-Ba-Ya" and emerged with a common purpose, that all of our efforts combined would lower the predicted peak temperature by enough to forestall the cataclysmic effects. It's also not at all clear that any of the various Nintendo-game computer models predict that peak temperature or those cataclysmic effects accurately enough to bet the entire world's GDP on.
It's also not at all clear that the entire world's GDP provides enough resource to do whatever might need to be done--once we're sure we even know what that is.
At some point we're going to have to adapt to nature as we've always done in the past. Something like a third of the human race lives on real estate that's not far enough above sea level to still support non-aquatic lifeforms under the worst case scenarios. We ought to start thinking about moving them.
For starters, just to show the goddess that we're serious, how about when a city gets wiped out by a hurricane we just shut it down? This seems like a particularly stupid time to start rebuilding it, courtesy of insurance payments subsidized by all the rest of us and of zoning regulations written by the real estate industry. Anybody who's ready to invest in the resurrection of New Orleans is clearly not going to listen to anything we say about global warming.
There may well be enough habitable land to accommodate everybody without making the world a lot more crowded than it already is. Siberia, Greenland, Alaska, and northern Canada will become temperate--if these predictions are realistic--and will hold a lot of the people who can't remain in places like L.A., London, and Rio once they're under water.
We could actually try reducing our population so we'd all fit comfortably. That would even reduce the warming.
Never forget that the polar ice caps on Mars are shrinking just like ours, and there's nobody there to blame it on. The Solar System is just going through a hot spell. Some things are not our fault and they also can be beyond our ability to fix.
06-14-06, 02:50 PM #17Originally Posted by scibetel
06-14-06, 09:30 PM #18
One year does not make a trend. But the earth does seem to be heating up. There is nothing, however, conclusive about the cause. It's a debate. The earth has gotten hotter in the past, well before we had any real effect on our environment. That is conclusive. Certainly we are not doing anything to slow the process, if that is possible, by pumping CO2, CO, soot, and whatever else into our atmosphere. But there is no way to know what quantitative effect that is having.
This, however, is true, scientifically: the warmer it gets, the warmer it can get. When snow and ice, which are white and highly reflective, melt, what is left, brown land and the deep, blue sea, absorb the heat that was previously reflected back which allows even more melting. A canoe might be a good investment.
You know, one day the sun is going to become a red giant star and expand to beyond the orbit of the earth without any help from us. But wait: a billion years before that we are scheduled to collide with the Andromeda Galaxy. Better hope we're on the far side of the crunch when it comes...
06-14-06, 11:17 PM #19
From NOAA's Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory:
Kyoto Treaty participation:
'WORLD SCIENTISTS' CALL FOR ACTION
AT THE KYOTO CLIMATE SUMMIT
Five years ago, in the World Scientists' Warning to Humanity, 1600 of the world's senior scientists sounded an unprecedented warning:
Human activities inflict harsh and often irreversible damage on the environment and on critical resources. If not checked, many of our current practices put at serious risk the future that we wish for human society and the plant and animal kingdoms.
Addressed to political, industrial, religious, and scientific leaders, the Warning demonstrated that the scientific community had reached a consensus that grave threats imperil the future of humanity and the global environment. However, over four years have passed, and progress has been woefully inadequate. Some of the most serious problems have worsened. Invaluable time has been squandered because so few leaders have risen to the challenge.
The December 1997 Climate Summit in Kyoto, Japan, presents a unique opportunity. The world's political leaders can demonstrate a new commitment to the protection of the environment. The goal is to strengthen the 1992 Framework Convention on Climate Change by agreeing to effective controls on human practices affecting climate. This they can and must do, primarily by augmenting the Convention's voluntary measures with legally binding commitments to reduce industrial nations' emissions of heat-trapping gases significantly below 1990 levels in accordance with a near-term timetable.
Over time, developing nations must also be engaged in limiting their emissions. Developed and developing nations must cooperate to mitigate climatic disruption.
The biosphere is a seamless web. Completion of an effective treaty at Kyoto would address one of the most serious threats to the planet and to future generations. It would set a landmark precedent for addressing other grave environmental threats, many linked to climate change. It would demonstrate that the world's leaders have now recognized, in deeds and words, their responsibility for stewardship of the earth.
The stark facts carry a clear signal: There is only one responsible choice --- to act now.
We, the signers of this declaration, urge all government leaders to demonstrate a new commitment to protecting the global environment for future generations. The important first step is to join in completing a strong and meaningful Climate Treaty at Kyoto.
WE ENCOURAGE SCIENTISTS AND CITIZENS AROUND THE WORLD TO HOLD THEIR LEADERS ACCOUNTABLE FOR ADDRESSING THE GLOBAL WARMING THREAT.
Leaders must take this first step to protect future generations from dire prospects that would result from failure to meet our responsibilities toward them.
The Web of Environmental Effects
Predictions of global climatic change are becoming more confident. A broad consensus among the world's climatologists is that there is now "a discernible human influence on global climate."
Climate change is projected to raise sea levels, threatening populations and ecosystems in coastal regions. Warmer temperatures will lead to a more vigorous hydrologic cycle, increasing the prospects for more intense rainfall, floods, or droughts in some regions. Human health may be damaged by greater exposure to heat waves and droughts, and by encroachment of tropical diseases to higher latitudes. The developing world is especially vulnerable to damage from climatic disruption because it is already under great stress and has less capacity to adapt.
Climate Change: Linkages and Further Damage
Destructive logging and deforestation for agriculture continue to wreak havoc on the world's remaining tropical forests. The burning of the Amazonian rain forests continues largely unabated. Other forests in developed and developing nations are under heavy pressure.
Destruction of forests greatly amplifies soil erosion and water wastage, is a major source of loss of species, and undermines the environment's natural ability to store carbon. It releases additional carbon to the atmosphere, thereby enhancing global warming.
Fossil-fueled energy use is climbing, both in industrial nations and in the developing world, adding to atmospheric carbon. Efforts to enhance energy conservation and improve efficiency are much hindered by low energy costs and by perverse incentives that encourage waste.
Without firm commitments, most industrial nations will not meet the carbon-emission goals they agreed to at the 1992 Rio conference. The transition to renewable, non-fossil-carbon-based energy sources is feasible but is not in sight for lack of aggressive political will.
The insurance industry has recognized the risks posed by climate change. Leading economists have identified viable policies for reducing these risks. Markets undervalue ecosystems worldwide and inflict few penalties against practices that do long-term environmental and resource damage. Political leadership must introduce incentives that reward sound practices.
Water Scarcity and Food Security
Humanity now uses over one-half of the total accessible freshwater runoff. Freshwater is the scarcest resource in the Middle East and in North Africa. Efforts to husband freshwater are not succeeding there, in East Asia, or in the Pacific.
Global food production now appears to be outpaced by growth in consumption and population. There is broad agreement that food demand will double by 2030. Most land suitable for agriculture is already in production. Sub-Saharan Africa's increase in agricultural production is one-third less than its population growth. The region now produces 80 percent of what it consumes, and per capita production is declining. Projections indicate that demand for food in Asia will exceed the supply by 2010. Thus, food consumption levels in many countries are likely to remain totally inadequate for good nutrition. Widespread undernutrition will persist unless extraordinary measures are taken to ensure food for all, measures not now even contemplated by governments. Climate change is likely to exacerbate these food problems by adversely affecting water supplies, soil conditions, temperature tolerances, and growing seasons.
Destruction of Species
Climate change will accelerate the appalling pace at which species are now being liquidated, especially in vulnerable ecosystems. One-fourth of the known species of mammals are threatened, and half of these may be gone within a decade. Possibly one-third of all species may be lost before the end of the next century. Biodiversity gives stability to the ecosystems that we are so dependent on, enhances their productivity, and provides an important source of new foods, medicines, and other products.
Selected Prominent Signatories to the World Scientists' Call for Action at the Kyoto Climate Summit
Nobel Laureate signatories:
* Philip W. Anderson, USA. Physics 1977
* Kenneth J. Arrow, USA. Economics 1972
* Julius Axelrod, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1970
* David Baltimore, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1975
* Georg J. Bednorz, Switzerland. Physics 1987
* Baruj Benacerraf, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1980
* Hans A. Bethe, USA. Physics 1967
* J. Michael Bishop, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1989
* James W. Black, UK. Physiology/Medicine 1988
* Konrad E. Bloch, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1964
* Nicolaas Bloembergen, USA. Physics 1981
* Thomas R. Cech, USA. Chemistry 1989
* Stanley Cohen, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1986
* Elias James Corey, USA. Chemistry 1990
* John W. Cornforth, UK. Chemistry 1975
* James W. Cronin, USA. Physics 1980
* Paul J. Crutzen, Germany. Chemistry 1995
* Jean Dausset, France. Physiology/Medicine 1980
* Hans G. Dehmelt, USA. Physics 1989
* Johann Deisenhofer, USA. Chemistry 1988
* Peter C. Doherty, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1996
* Renato Dulbecco, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1975
* Christian R. de Duve, Belgium. Physiology/Medicine 1974
* Manfred Eigen, Germany. Chemistry 1967
* Gertrude B. Elion, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1988
* Richard R. Ernst, Switzerland. Chemistry 1991
* Leo Esaki, Japan. Physics 1973
* Edmond H. Fischer, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1992
* Ernst Otto Fischer, Germany. Chemistry 1973
* Val L. Fitch, USA. Physics 1980
* Jerome I. Friedman, USA. Physics 1990
* Donald A. Glaser, USA. Physics 1960
* Sheldon L. Glashow, USA. Physics 1979
* Herbert A. Hauptman, USA. Chemistry 1985
* Dudley Herschbach, USA. Chemistry 1986
* Antony Hewish, UK. Physics 1974
* Roald Hoffmann, USA. Chemistry 1981
* Godfrey Hounsfield, UK. Physiology/Medicine 1979
* David H. Hubel, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1981
* Robert Huber, Germany. Chemistry 1988
* Jerome Karle, USA. Chemistry 1985
* Henry W. Kendall, USA. Physics 1990
* John Kendrew, UK. Chemistry 1962
* Klaus von Klitzing, Germany. Physics 1985
* Aaron Klug, UK. Chemistry 1982
* Arthur Kornberg, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1959
* Edwin G. Krebs, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1992
* Harold Kroto, UK. Chemistry 1996
* Leon M. Lederman, USA. Physics 1988
* David M. Lee, USA. Physics 1996
* Yuan T. Lee, Taiwan. Chemistry 1986
* Jean-Marie Lehn, France. Chemistry 1987
* Wassily Leontief, USA. Economics 1973
* Rita Levi-Montalcini, Italy. Physiology/Medicine 1986
* Edward B. Lewis, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1995
* William N. Lipscomb, USA. Chemistry 1976
* Rudolph A. Marcus, USA. Chemistry 1992
* Simon van der Meer, Switzerland. Physics 1984
* R. Bruce Merrifield, USA. Chemistry 1984
* Hartmut Michel, Germany. Chemistry 1988
* Cesar Milstein, UK. Physiology/Medicine 1984
* Mario J. Molina, USA. Chemistry 1995
* Ben Mottelson, Denmark. Physics 1975
* Joseph E. Murray, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1990
* Daniel Nathans, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1978
* Louis Neel, France. Physics 1970
* Erwin Neher, Germany. Physiology/Medicine 1991
* Marshall W. Nirenberg, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1968
* Christiane Nusslein-Volhard, Germany. Physiology/Medicine 1995
* Douglas D. Osheroff, USA. Physics 1996
* George E. Palade, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1974
* Max F. Perutz, UK. Chemistry 1962
* John Polanyi, Canada. Chemistry 1986
* Ilya Prigogine, Belgium. Chemistry 1977
* Norman F. Ramsey, USA. Physics 1989
* Burton Richter, USA. Physics 1976
* Richard J. Roberts, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1993
* Martin Rodbell, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1994
* Heinrich Rohrer, Switzerland. Physics 1986
* Joseph Rotblat, UK. Peace 1995
* F. Sherwood Rowland, USA. Chemistry 1995
* Bengt Samuelsson, Sweden. Physiology/Medicine 1982
* Frederick Sanger, UK. Chemistry 1958, 1980
* Arthur L. Schawlow, USA. Physics 1981
* Glenn T. Seaborg, USA. Chemistry 1951
* Herbert A. Simon, USA. Economics 1978
* Richard E. Smalley, USA. Chemistry 1996
* Michael Smith, Canada. Chemistry 1993
* Jack Steinberger, Switzerland. Physics 1988
* Henry Taube, USA. Chemistry 1983
* Richard E. Taylor, USA. Physics 1990
* E. Donnall Thomas, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1990
* Samuel C. C. Ting, USA. Physics 1976
* James Tobin, USA. Economics 1981
* Susumu Tonegawa, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1987
* Charles H. Townes, USA. Physics 1964
* Desmond Tutu, South Africa. Peace 1984
* John Vane, UK. Physiology/Medicine 1982
* Thomas H. Weller, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1954
* Torsten N. Wiesel, USA. Physiology/Medicine 1981
* Robert W. Wilson, USA. Physics 1978
* Rolf M. Zinkernagel, Switzerland. Physiology/Medicine 1996
versus the world-famous intellectuals known as:
-Rush Limbaugh, George W Bush, novelist Michael Crichton.
'I'll take common sense for $500, Alex'.
Last edited by Dr Hannibal Lecter; 06-14-06 at 11:33 PM.
06-15-06, 01:02 AM #20
Originally Posted by Absane
The Inuit tribe in Labrador, Canada and Greenland are crying for help and suing Canada and our government because they can no longer catch seals because there's no longer any ice on the water for them to walk out on to catch them. Polar Bears too.
CO2 concentrations: Have you ever heard of acid rain? Do you know what the effects of it has done to the Adirondack Forests and European forests over the last three decades? The cause and effect is undeniable.
Over 90% Glacier retreats worldwide. Permafrost melting in Northern Canada, Alaska, and other Northern geographic areas that are destroying forests. Increased skin cancer in Southern South American countries directly due to ozone depletion. Respiratory illnesses. Geez! Do you know what "Smog" is? Just go to L.A. and open your eyes and what do you think you see? How could you possibly deny that smog is man-made??? Where do you think it eventually goes? Do you think that it just disappears like magic? And the list goes on and on.
Wake up! The reality is right before your eyes wherever you look here and now! I've given you scientifically researched educational examples, but all you have to do is open your eyes to see the effects. Read about the unprecedented rises in temperature in the newspapers. Why do you think there are increases in typhoons (New Orleans)? Increases in ocean temperatures that create more low pressure zones and decreases in the Atlantic Northerly currents. This is scientifically documented.
It is so so obvious, i.e., if you are "educated" and continuously follow all the scientific journals that document the evidence like I do? Do you? I am NOT exaggerating anything at all. These are the facts. And they are undisputable.