Page 22 of 24 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415161718192021222324 LastLast
Results 421 to 440 of 469

Thread: Scientific Approach to the Jesus question

  1. #421
    I think you need to look over what was written again and I resent, strongly, an accusation of being "deliberately vague."

    You said, "...many people who lived when Jesus lived..."

    Pick one: either Jesus or one of the "many people." Nothing vague about that since the pronoun "his" would apply in either circumstance and we'd still get the data necessary to support your claim.

    Please don't let your discontent with my questions or my opinions cloud your ability to comprehend.

    What is, however, "deliberately vague" is your repeated use of straw man, red herring, and non sequiturs as arguments instead of actually coming out and citing the data you claim exists. At what point does the reasoned individual stop accepting a claim and start accepting a lie?

  2. #422
    You weren't clear whether in Jesus' lifetime on Earth, or the Apostles lifetimes, vague.

  3. #423
    The jesus mania was because of a real person..
    I'm sorry but your claim has nothing to support it.

  4. #424
    Then where did Christianity come from, the Sun god, as Med Woman says?

  5. #425
    You're kidding, right? Don't you even *see* the fallacy in that question?

    It assumes that by existing, Christianity is therefore correct in its principles. By assuming that, you must now accept the same thing for every single other religion, both extant and extinct.

  6. #426
    Then where did Christianity come from, the Sun god, as Med Woman says?
    Your question doesn't have merit. Basically you're saying that Odin must exist otherwise where did the belief in Odin come from. Religions/beliefs have come and gone over the years and will continue to do so. Because people have those beliefs/subscribe to those religions does not in any way mean that the main character of that belief was real.

    Now, for some bizarre reason my response to another post in a different thread ended up here. Admittedly my computer was going a little bit wonky at the time, (which in turn prompted me to run a virus scan), but the point was simply that people have beliefs, (even to this day), that actually have no basis in reality. I think I'm correct in saying Snopes is an entire site dedicated to pointing out the error in many of those beliefs - even though you might argue that the belief must be true because it couldn't have formed out of thin air.

    But we are a really strange species. Would you believe that in the year 2007 there are grown men that want to be dressed up in nappies and get spanked? It's ridiculous. What is equally ridiculous is that people in the year 2007 accept the very word of people they never knew or met that lived thousands of years ago while instantly denying the word of another bunch of people they never knew or met that lived thousands of years ago without any sane reason to do either.

    They dismiss Odin because the story sounds stupid, but yet believe that there's a big floaty guy in the sky that loves them dearly, will give them a life part II, while burning some people for eternity because of some scary mean monster being that he created. It's so laughable I'd wet my pants on a daily basis if it wasn't for the fact that so many people buy into it - all based upon the word of people as equally idiotic, if not more so, than every other human currently in existence.

    Why am I even explaining this to a person that can't even manage to type more than one line? What am I going to get in response? I would implore you to try. For a moment consider the possibility that you're going to die tomorrow. What have you left the world? When people mention that you were a great crusader for christianity, that you spent your time trying to bring people to the truth.. what are they going to show them? You saying "surely not"? Is that worth being remembered for?

    The facts of the matter are that religions/religious texts are largely borrowed from other cultures/stories. The first parts of the OT are clearly Sumerian of origin. Your festivals for example, (christmas/easter etc), are all taken from other beliefs - the practices you follow stem from earlier beliefs and so on. While I personally wouldn't flat out say "christianity came from sun god worship", you can see it's influence in christianity, (including christmas day, 25th December - birth of a sun god). The Hebrew word for sun comes from the name of an Akkadian sun god etc. You can see the influence of other beliefs everywhere you turn without even trying. Everytime you look up in the sky you see a collection of god, (Mars/Jupiter etc), several of the jewish months are named after Sumerian gods. In England the cooker is called a 'hob' which comes from the hobgoblin - a protector of the fireplace. You literally cannot escape old belief/superstition. That doesn't make any of it true, it just means humans are stupid.

    As an amusing side note.. All these gods given their own planets etc and yet jesus missed out. The only time anyone seemingly says his name is when they do something stupid; "jesus f****** christ", they say when they drop the glass bowl, run over the dog, set fire to the carpet.

  7. #427

  8. #428
    Encephaloid Martini (Q)'s Avatar
    Posts
    19,127
    Quote Originally Posted by Snakelord
    Why am I even explaining this to a person that can't even manage to type more than one line? What am I going to get in response?
    Quote Originally Posted by IceAgeCivilizations View Post
    Yes, it is ironic.
    http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/ak...smiley-060.gif

  9. #429
    Well no, now that I think about it, it's not really ironic, it's predictable, the God who does have the power to make things happen is the one selected for cursing that object or person of someone's displeasure.

  10. #430
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    614
    Quote Originally Posted by IceAgeCivilizations View Post
    Jesus left a wake of change in history, like a stone hitting a still pond, and that, right at and just after the time of his Incarnation, nothing close to this can be said about Plato and Aristotle.
    Let me substitute one word:

    Mohammud left a wake of change in history, like a stone hitting a still pond.

    IAC, why are there 1.3 billion Muslims? Why is one fifth of the world a Muslim?

  11. #431
    Because they have chosen to follow what is written in the Koran, coerced to follow, or completely voluntary, but I'm sure there are many Muslims who don't believe its tenets, but are afraid to leave the religion.

  12. #432
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    614
    Quote Originally Posted by IceAgeCivilizations View Post
    Because they have chosen to follow what is written in the Koran, coerced to follow, or completely voluntary, but I'm sure there are many Muslims who don't believe its tenets, but are afraid to leave the religion.
    So they are Muslims because they were born into it and are afraid to leave their religion because of the social implications it might have on them and the strife it might cause in their family.

    Sounds like another major religion I know...

  13. #433
    No, there is not the stigma, nor threat of physical harm, when people leave the Christian faith of their families, sure, Christian families take it hard, but it's part of free volition, which the Muslim world does not enjoy.

  14. #434
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    614
    When you say "I'm sure there are many Muslims who don't believe its tenets" what do you mean by its tenants?

    Do they not believe that Mohammad is the last prophet? Do they not believe in the laws of the Quran? Please elaborate.

    Also, I could use that same sentence to say:

    "I'm sure there are many Christians who don't believe the Bible's tenets, but they are too lazy to change religions and it is much more convenient just to stick to the one they were born into since they avoid any social ramifications and they also are "saved" if they are still a member of Christianity and have that lingering belief in their brain that Jesus is the Messiah and the Son of God."

  15. #435
    But of course, a born again Christian can never leave God, he may think he can, but the Bible says God never lets such happen.

  16. #436
    There are many who call themselves Christian but are not actually born again, so they really aren't Christians.

  17. #437
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    614
    What percent of the 2.1 billion Christian "adherents" of the world do think are truly "born again"?

  18. #438
    Just guessing, maybe half.

  19. #439
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    614
    That's probably around the mark. I would even go as far as a third to a half in terms of how many Christian "adherents" actually practice their beliefs and actually think about their religion aside from Mass (and most even daydream during that!)

    Well, we can already negate most athletes, rappers, and politicians who claim to be Christians. One minute they are praising Jesus and the next they are smoking every drug imaginable, banging every girl they can find, or out shooting up night clubs (this applies mainly to the thug filled NBA).

  20. #440
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    614
    IAC, it seems like all people who are affiliated to a certian religion all have a specific level, or percentage of belief.

    Take Jesus for example. His rating on the "Belief Index" would be 100. He had no doubt about who he was and what he was doing here.

    Now let's look at the apostles. Clearly, these guys were either a bit slow, or were outright morons. These guys are shown time after time to doubt Jesus and to doubt his power and ability. Peter I would give a BI rating of about 75. John the apostle I would give about 70. Our boy "Doubting Thomas" would probably recieve a 67 on the BI.

    The pharisees would probably have recieved a 5-10 rating on the Belief Index. They wouldn't believe no matter how many signs they saw.

    There are allegedly 2.1 billion people who claim to be Christians in this world. As we have noted, however, only a fraction of these people actually are serious about their religion and put forth some kind of effort to adhere to it.

    I would estimate that about 65% of all people who are members of a Christian sect have a rating on the Belief Index of about 15. This is because 65% of Christians put forth a 15% effort in adhering to their religion.

    I would argue that the level of belief a person has in their religion and the effort they put forth in adhering to that religion, including making sacrifices, goes graphically hand in hand.

    So if someone has a rating of 15 on the Belief Index of Jesus and the NT then they are most likely putting forth 15% of the max effort they could be putting into their religion. Jesus, a 100 on the B.I. obviously put forth 100% effort and sacrificed himself 100%.

    IAC, how does this Belief Index look:

    100 - Jesus
    90 - Shadrach, Meshak, Abednego, Daniel
    80 - Paul after conversion and vision
    75 - Peter
    70 - John
    67 - Doubting Thomas
    15 - 65% of people who claim to be Christians
    8 - 15% of people who claim to be Christians
    5 - The Pharisees
    0 - John Edwards

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •