************* M*W: We're not talking real living, breathing sheep or goats here. Shepherds were watching the movements of the constellations in the night sky. Any comments?
I think they really were watching their flock. Really. Really really. Real live sheepses. Or goats (although wouldn't that be a goatherd?) Or it could refer to the rulers of the time, I suppose, watching out over the throng of adoring subjects. But constellations? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Can't see it. Not saying it's not so - but I'm currently blind to it and awaiting treatment. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
************* M*W: Uhh, well it's definitely NOT from your bible. My belief is that all religion is based on astrology. Jesus was god. Jesus was the sun of god. Jesus+God=Sun. Capeesh?
If its not from "my" bible, then whats the point of this thread? What are u asking? I assumed you were asking what a certain verse meant... what are u trying to ask? Trying to ask a saying that u made up means in an attempt to prove God as the sun?
************* M*W: The "point" of the thread is to make christians aware that they make false assumptions about their religion. Since you are not the center of the universe, I can see where you are confused regarding what's in 'your' bible. I'm not trying to "prove" anything. I'm just posting opinions. Most members are sciforums are not as dense as you are, so hopefully they will have a more clear understanding of my posts than you do.
Center of the universe? What the? How does saying if something is not in the Bible of my faith self centered? It is not in the Holy Book of my faith, so it does not concern me... that is not self centered... that is like going up to a Jew and saying "the Quran says this, explain" ... he probably, unless he studies Islam, could not answer that with too much knowledge... You made this thing up or did you get it from somewhere else? You are asking us what does a certains aying mean... well, where did you hear this saying? If you didnt and you made it up, why are you asking us? YOU made it up... You made up (or heard or read) a saying that is not at all linked to Christians in an attempt to disprove Christianity???? How do you expect THAT to work when people finding contradictions in the Bible itself wont convert Christians?
` hmmm... Luke:2(King James Bible) 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. All I'm seeing is that the story includes a bunch of yokels who were supposed to serve as mouthpieces. Could the passage in question not perhaps refer simply to a practice of guarding against predatory animals ? Jackals or something. If you're looking for astronomers/astrologers, what about the magi/wise men "from the East" ? Again... Mithraism... a religion with origins in Persia ("the east"), and which involved observation of constellations in order to monitor the transitions of the world through various "ages" dictated by solar & stellar positions. .
************* M*W: Well, good point, Provita. The reasons there are bible contradictions is because the bible has been interpreted wrongly for thousands of years. Take the NT, for example, if you look at it as a history book, you will believe or disbelieve the historical aspects of the contents. If you look at the NT mathematically, you will find significance or not in the numbers. If you look at the NT cosmologically, you will see how ancient myths were created from the stars, planets and elements. It's all in the eye of the beholder. I've researched the bible from different angles, but the only logical way to understand the bible, especially the NT, is to look at it as an ancient astrological calendar. That's when everything falls into place and finally makes sense.
i would be inclined to believe this, but for one glaring fact......your theory is based in an english interpretation of those words....early religions had no knowledge of the language we call "english" today. (its "capiche")
************* M*W: The "Magi" from the East weren't kings or Persians, even though there are numerous theories on who they were and where they came from -- even serious documentaries have been done by biblical scholars about this. The "Magi" are the three stars in Orion's Belt. Jesus (another name for the Sun) was born in Bethlehem (meaning "house of bread") in the Sign of Virgo. Yeast makes bread rise. The son-sun also rises. When the sun moved out of Virgo during the time of King Herod (not a real person; means "the nighttime), Magi from the East (meaning "three stars in Orion's Belt which rise in the East came to Jerusalem (indicated by the starry night sky) and asked, "Where is he (the sun) who has been born the King of the Jews? His star (the sun is Venus which is always seen near the Sun) when it rose in the east (the sun always 'rises' in the East), we have come to worship him." Jesus is a personification of the Sun. This shows the whole religion was originally about Sun worship. When King Herod (nighttime) heard this he was disturbed, (night is worried there is a Sun that will rise (be born) and conquer him (nighttime). When he had called together all the people's chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where Jesus (Sun) was born. Then Herod (nighttime) called the Magi (astronomers) and secretly found out from them the exact time the star (Venus) had appeared. He sent them to Bethlehem (the house of bread in the Sign of Virgo)(Virgo is shown holding sheaths of wheat, i.e. bread). Herod told the astronomers, "Go and make a careful search for the child (look for the Sun in Virgo). As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him." After they heard Herod, they went on their journey. The star they had seen in the east went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was (Sun rises in the east and sets in the west). On coming to the house/stable (Sign of Virgo), they saw the child (the Sun) with his mother (Virgo), and they bowed down and worshiped him (the Sun). Then they presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. (Gold is bright and shiny like the Sun. Frankincense was considered by the ancients to be godly essence). The Magi were warned in a dream not to return to Herod, so they went 'back' to their country by 'another route.' The three stars Orion's belt return to their starting point by setting in the west, going under the earth back to their starting point, thus returning by another route).
Sorry Em Dubbelyu but the truth be known. In days of yore, tending to sheep was a lonely business, especially when the thoughts of love drifted through many a young or old shepherd's mind. Now in those days a man's sheep served a dual purpose, one for wool and the second for wool of a different meaning. 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field keeping watch over their flock by night. Abiding is not an accurate transalation from the Hebrew text....it actually is taken from the yiddish word meaning 'drinking heavily with hormones raging'. Now we recognize that to 'know' someone in the Biblical sense is a direct reference to sexual intercourse. Well the words 'keeping watch' has a similar connotation. The translators who penned the Bible into English didn't think it was right to print that the shepherds were 'committing lustfully obscene acts with their ewes.' 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. You can bet they were afraid and sore. Getting caught in the headlights of God's emissaries in a very embarassing situation is bad enough but trying to keep a ewe cooperative would have been most difficult. Rubber boots to put their back legs in hadn't been invented yet. EmDub..... The only zodiac sign those guys were under was RAM...you get my drift.
