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Thread: Evolution of Man?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Woody
    Alpha Wolf said

    How about babboons? They live in the savannah -- competition is tough out there too -- lions and such.

    Homo Sapiens have no problem living in the woods again, and would probably prefer it, being they are such slow runners.
    Competetion = Threat.

    Why waste time killing things that are no threat ?

  2. #62
    Secular Humanist Huwy's Avatar
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    Isn't it suspect that the homo-sapiens (our ancestors) KILLED the neanderthals?
    Hmm let me guess why - religion.

    "But Og og!! They do not stick their heads in the dirt and worship the god of boga boga. They are different to us."
    "Your right Ug Ug, lets kill them all. PRAISE BOGA BOGA~!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!"

  3. #63
    smoking revolver
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    There is no evidence that homo-sapiens killed the neanderthals.

  4. #64
    Secular Humanist Huwy's Avatar
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    Woody, you don't believe a species of hominids could wipe out the other species to extinction?

    Do you know nothing about history?
    Go buy a second hand biology book.

    I think Woody that the christians and the muslims should wipe EACH OTHER OUT.
    Then society wouldn't be held back by people that care more about the "after life" than they do about the real one.
    The survivors would go "shit those religious people are fucking crazy - lets vow never to listen to them or their MAGICAL THINKING again."

    I find that judgment day/rapture/jihad bullshit so offensive.
    Admit it, there are a lot of christians and a lot of muslims who would destroy the earth if it fitted their religious agenda.

    When you were a kid, you were told about santa claus right?
    Its exactly the same with christianity, except its adults telling other immature adults about "god".
    Presents at christmas, tooth fairy, go somewhere nice when i die....



    On a separate topic, is it possible that the size of our skulls could limit the evolutionary growth of our brains? And if so, should we kind of out-fracture our skulls a little bit to allow for a bit of growth?

  5. #65
    Several contributors to threads in sciforums have shown evidence of having begun the first phase of your proposed program. At least they show all the symptoms of having been struck on the head repeatedly with a blunt object.

  6. #66
    Musical Creationist Woody's Avatar
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    JR said about Negroes having more wisdom teeth and leg muscles:

    No they don't. Whatever gave you the idea they do?
    My father did -- he was a dentist and an orthodontist. He worked on several Negroes as patients.

    One of my brothers is a dentist as well -- I'll confrim it with him.

    As for the extra knee muscles -- that came from one of my biology teachers who was also a wrestling coach. He said that was the reason Negroes can run faster and jump higher than the other races of man. IF you ever noticed in the olympics --negroes win the sprints. They also out jump whites in basketball games.

    They also have heavier bones than whites and hence can not swim as well-- ever watched the swimming olympics? There aren't any Negroes to speak of.
    Last edited by Woody; 03-06-06 at 05:32 AM.

  7. #67
    Secular Humanist Huwy's Avatar
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    In some ways I laugh,
    but what scares me is the THOUSANDS of nukes that George W. Bush possess, and the belief in the "rapture" and "judgement day" etc. -
    Versus the islamic jihadists etc, all thrown in with the fight over oil.
    Not to mention the population decline amongst the educated versus the continued expansion and immigration of the ignorant and religious hoards.

    How can we speed up this process, but in such a way it doesn't involve innocent scientists/humanists/atheists getting nuked? Move them all to Australia!!??

    Woody, you call yourself a christian, but talking on this forum you are forced to acknowledge many beliefs (age of the earth/humanity, problem with incest), and evidence which contradicts the bible.
    So your a christian who only kind of/partly follows the book?

  8. #68
    smoking revolver
    Posts
    19,084
    On a separate topic, is it possible that the size of our skulls could limit the evolutionary growth of our brains? And if so, should we kind of out-fracture our skulls a little bit to allow for a bit of growth?
    And you would end in decrease of processing power and intelligence.
    Bigger does not always mean better when talking about brains and neuro communications.
    As I've already told a few posts above.
    For more information check out the research done by Michel A. Hofman from the "Netherlands Institute for Brain Research"

    Here, I even found something on the web for you ->
    ---------------------------

    <strong><p align="center"><a name="Limits to Human Brain Evolution"><font size="5">Limits to Human Brain Evolution</font></a></p> <p style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" align="center"><font size="3">By Michel A. Hofman</font></p> <p style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" align="center"><font size="3">Netherlands Institute for Brain Research</font></p> </strong> <p align="justify">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A progressive enlargement of the hominid brain started about 2 million years ago, probably from a bipedal, australopithecine form with a brain size comparable to that of a modern chimpanzee. Since then, a threefold increase in endocranial volume has taken place, leading to one of the most complex and efficient structures in the animated universe, the human brain. In view of the central importance placed on brain evolution in explaining the success of our species, one may wonder whether there are physical limits that constrain its processing power and evolutionary potential.</p> <p align="justify">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The evolution of the brain in mammals has been accompanied by a reorganization of the brain as a result of differential growth of certain brain regions (Finlay and Darlington, 1995; Rakic, 1995). Consequently, the geometry of the brain has changed notably since the late Cretaceous<sup> </sup>(Jerison,1990), and particularly in species with large brains, like in humans, the brain has become disproportionately composed of neocortex (Allman, 1990; Northcutt and Kaas, 1995). Analysis of the brain in anthropoid primates revealed that the volume of the neocortex is highly predictable from absolute brain size. The volume of the neocortical gray matter is basically a linear function of brain volume, whereas the mass of interconnections, forming the underlying white matter, increases disproportionaly with brain size. As a result, the volume of gray matter expressed as a percentage of total brain volume is about the same for all anthropoid primates.</p> <p align="justify">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The relative white matter volume, on the other hand, increases with brain size, from 9% in pygmy marmosets (<em>Cebuella pygmaea</em>) to 34% in humans, the highest value in primates. In fact, the evolutionary process of neocorticalization in primates is mainly due to the progressive expansion of the mass of interconnecting nerve fibers, rather than to the increase in the number of cortical neurons (Hofman, 1989; 2000). The high correlation between both variables ensures that the mathematical model, desribing the relationship between brain size and white matter volume, can be used for predictive purposes to estimate the mass of myelinated nerve fibers for a hypothetical primate.</p> <p align="justify">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The model, for example, predicts a white matter volume of about 1470 cm<sup>3 </sup>for an anthropoid primate with a brain size of 3000 cm<sup>3 </sup>. In other words, in such a large brained primate, white matter would comprise about half of the entire brain volume, compared to one-third in modern man. Predictions of neocortical growth at different brain sizes, using a conservative scenario, revealed that at a brain size of about 3.5 kg the total volume of the subcortical areas (i.e., cerebellum, brain stem, diencephalon, etc.) reaches a maximum (Fig. 1). Increasing the size of the brain beyond that point, following the same design principle, would lead to a further increase in the size of the neocortex, but to a reduction of the subcortical volume.</p> <font size="1"> <p align="justify">&nbsp;</p> <p align="justify">&nbsp;</p> <p align="center"><img src="http://www.albany.edu/braindance/Hof.gif" border="0" height="300" width="391" /></p> <p align="justify">&nbsp;</p> </font> <blockquote> <blockquote> <p align="justify"><font size="2">Fig. 1. Relative subcortical volume as a function of brain volume. The predicted subcortical volume (i.e. brain volume - predicted neocortex volume) must be zero at zero brain size. Likewise, the subcortical volume will be zero when the brain is exclusively composed of cortical gray and white matter. At a brain size of 3575 cm<sup>3</sup> the subcortical volume has a simulated maximum of 366 cm<sup>3</sup>, which is taken as 100%. The larger the brain grows beyond this critical<strong> </strong>size the less efficient it will become. Assuming constant design, it follows that this model predicts an upper limit to the brain’s processing power.</font></p> <p align="justify">&nbsp;</p> </blockquote> </blockquote> <p align="justify">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Once the brain has grown to a point where the bulk of its mass is in the form of connections, further increases will be unproductive, due the declining capability of neuronal integration and increased conduction time<sup> </sup>(Ringo et al., 1994; Prothero, 1997; Hofman, 2000). At this point, corresponding to a brain size two to three times that of modern man, the brain reaches its maximal processing power. The larger the brain grows beyond this critical size, the less efficient it will become, thus limiting any improvement in processing power.</p> <p align="justify">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; One cannot exclude the possibilty of new structures evolving in the brain, or a higher degree of specialization of existing brain areas, but within the limits of the existing ‘Bauplan’ there does not seem to be an incremental improvement path available to the human brain. This implies that, as a species, <em>Homo sapiens</em> is nearly at the end of the road for brain evolution.</p> <strong> </strong><p align="center"><strong>References</strong></p> <ul><li>Allman, J.M.<em> </em>(1990). Evolution of neocortex. In <em>Cerebral Cortex</em>, Vol. 8A (eds. Jones E.G. &amp; Peters A.) 269-283. Plenum Press, NewYork, N.Y.</li><li>Finlay, B.L. &amp; Darlington, R.B. (1995). Linked regularities in the development and evolution of mammalian brains. <em>Science</em> <strong>268,</strong> 1578-1584.</li><li>Hofman, M.A. (1989). On the evolution and geometry of the brain in mammals. <em>Prog. Neurobiol.</em> <strong>32,</strong> 137-158.</li><li>Hofman, M.A. (2000). Brain evolution in hominids: are we at the end of the road? In <em>Evolutionary Anatomy of the Primate Cerebral Cortex</em> (eds. Falk, D. &amp; Gibson, K.) Cambridge Univ. Press, in press.</li><li>Jerison, H.J. (1990). Fossil evidence on the evolution of the neocortex. In <em>Cerebral Cortex,</em> Vol. 8A (eds. Jones E.G. &amp; Peters A.) 285-309. Plenum Press, New York, N.Y.</li><li>Northcutt, R.G. &amp; Kaas, J.H. (1995). The emergence and evolution of mammalian cortex. <em>Trends Neurosci. </em><strong>18,</strong> 373-379.</li><li>Prothero, J. (1994). Scaling of cortical neuron density and white matter volume in mammals. <em>J. Brain Res.</em> <strong>38</strong>, 513-524.</li><li>Rakic, P. (1995). A small step for the cell, a giant leap to mankind: a hypothesis of neocortical expansion during evolution <em>Trends Neurosci.</em> <strong>18,</strong> 383-388.</li><li>Ringo, J.L., Doty, R.W., Demeter, S. &amp; Simard, P.Y.<em> </em>(1994)<em>. </em>Time is of essence: a conjecture that hemispheric specialization arises from interhemispheric conduction delay. <em>Cerebral Cortex </em><strong>4, </strong>331-343.</li></ul>

  9. #69
    Secular Humanist Huwy's Avatar
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    Ophiolite:
    Hilarious video related to your observation of people being "struck over the head".
    It appears they are striking THEMSELVES over the head.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scM6lwC54kU
    This is seriously amusing.

  10. #70
    Secular Humanist Huwy's Avatar
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    Thanks avatar! I'll print it and take it to uni.

  11. #71
    Musical Creationist Woody's Avatar
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    HWY said:

    Woody, you don't believe a species of hominids could wipe out the other species to extinction?
    I didn't say they couldn't.

    I said they should have more important things to do than kill each other.

    If you view hominids like any other animal -- yeah they compete and kill each other -- but there just weren't that many hominids around -- at least they didn't leave that much evidence.

    As one engineer asked me -- where were all these caves they supposedly lived in?
    Last edited by Woody; 03-06-06 at 05:43 AM.

  12. #72
    Musical Creationist Woody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity
    Nice pic.

    Strong religious beliefs and illusion that GOD will save us all will definately hasten our extinction.

    Look at war videos, they all die in millions praying GOD for help.

    Its just a matter of time when we will die in billions.

    99% of all species are now extinct.

    100% of them did not believe in a God or in Gods.
    Last edited by Woody; 03-06-06 at 05:51 AM.

  13. #73
    smoking revolver
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    As one engineer asked me -- where were all these caves they supposedly lived in?
    Your engineer apparently wasn't an archeologist.
    Caves were mostly used as shrines and not for living.
    People mostly lived in structures half dug in the earth and on the top covered with a mixture of wood and earth (that is an assumption about the cover, but other cover materials are hard to imagine).

  14. #74
    smoking revolver
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    99% of what?
    Woody, you are a joke and not worth wasting time on you.
    one more religious moron ignorelisted

  15. #75
    Musical Creationist Woody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar
    99% of what?
    Woody, you are a joke and not worth wasting time on you.
    one more religious moron ignorelisted

    I got it from another evolutionist on this forum. I see now -- there is nothing worth believing that is posted on this forum. May I quote Superliminal:

    During times of rapid environmental change or the rise of other competitive species, transitional forms can be very short lived. Remember, we're all just provisional experiments. 99%+ of all species that have ever existed are extinct. Homo Sapiens will one day be extinct. We may evolve to meet whatever challenges crop up, or we may just yield to a better adapted species altogether. Homo Sap. is very new as species go.
    Who should I put on my ignore list? Who has 0% credibility between you and Superliminal? Avatar -- I think you are the goofball -- hence you will go to my "goofball" ignore list where you rightfully belong.
    Last edited by Woody; 03-06-06 at 05:59 AM.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Huwy
    Isn't it suspect that the homo-sapiens (our ancestors) KILLED the neanderthals?...
    There is evidence that Neanderthals did used flowers in the graves of their dead.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Woody
    99% of all species are now extinct.

    100% of them did not believe in a God or in Gods.
    So U mean when Timor was atacked and 2million people died in a few months,

    none of them prayed ?

  18. #78
    smoking revolver
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    Furthermore, neanderthals had bear shrines very much like those of homo sapiens in later ages.
    Some tribes in Siberia and Northen Japan (the Ainu people) still have identical ones today, associated with them are rites and mythology.
    It's a belief and tradition ongoing for more than 100000 years.
    Of course, it's not an organised religion.

    You can read in detail about these bear shrines and their fascinating cross species continuity in the book "Primitive Mythology" by Joseph Campbell

  19. #79

  20. #80
    Insanity Gone Mad Lemming3k's Avatar
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    I have heard that human brain has increased by 100grams in past 1000 or some years; its possible that humans have an incremental brain gene, ie. brain gene may mutate such that at each generation brain will be slightly bigger.
    Interesting, i wasnt aware of these rumours, do you have a link to a study i can read? I know over 4 million years our brains have increased from 400g to their present size.

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