how peaceful is islam ?

[leopold]

In answer to your question, the Taliban did not destroy the statues for religious reasons. They had been ruling for a few years, why wouldn't they have destroyed the statues when they first came into rule of the area?

according to the website they did

[leopold]

please elaborate. I was under the impression even Bush himself admitted this problem.

“America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world,” Bush said

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11110276/

Peace

america has coal reserves that has been estimated to be sufficient at current usage levels for 250 years. why they do not use it is anybodys guess

[DiamondHearts]

according to the website they did

This was the official statement of the Taliban Ambassador to the US during that time. Alot of other Taliban officials, including Mullah Omar, echoed the same statements. I have read these statements myself in the Middle East newspapers.

america has coal reserves that has been estimated to be sufficient at current usage levels for 250 years. why they do not use it is anybodys guess

I agree, America needs to fight alternative fuel sources before they bomb the entire Middle East and kill themselves trying to get their oil.

Peace

[DiamondHearts]

typo

I agree, America needs to fight alternative fuel sources before they bomb the entire Middle East and kill themselves trying to get their oil.

I agree, America needs to find alternative fuel sources before they bomb the entire Middle East and kill themselves trying to get their oil.

[madanthonywayne]

Yet, when some CIA agents bombed the WTC, this prompted rape, murder, and abuse for Muslims in America. This justified killing a still unknown number of civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq. This justified support for suppression of the Chechnyan, Kashmiri, Palestinian resistance movements. This justified political and physical control and war with the Islamic world.

If another CIA terrorist attack happens in the US, the Muslim minority will be in concentration camps.

At times you seem reasonable, then you switch back to this conspiracy theory nonsence! The CIA can't even keep survelance programs secret, you think they could pull off something like that? Furthermore, the CIA has opposed the Bush administration every step of the way. It is not on his side and did not/does not favor the war.

Still, you may be right about the concentration camps should another major terrorist attack occur. The fact that an attack occured despite the provisions of the PATRIOT act will serve as proof that much more extreem measures must be enacted.

If a nuke goes off in the US, look for one showing up real soon at an Islamist country near you! Hell, maybe all of them.

One thing I wonder about, is the possibility that if a Democrat should win in o8, will he or she be even tougher on terrorism than Bush to try to prove he or she is not soft on defence? They used to say only Nixon can go to China. Perhaps only Hilary can declare a new Crusade to convert the heathens and make the world safe for Christiandom.

[DiamondHearts]

At times you seem reasonable, then you switch back to this conspiracy theory nonsence! The CIA can't even keep survelance programs secret, you think they could pull off something like that? Furthermore, the CIA has opposed the Bush administration every step of the way. It is not on his side and did not/does not favor the war.

Still, you may be right about the concentration camps should another major terrorist attack occur. The fact that an attack occured despite the provisions of the PATRIOT act will serve as proof that much more extreem measures must be enacted.

If a nuke goes off in the US, look for one showing up real soon at an Islamist country near you! Hell, maybe all of them.

One thing I wonder about, is the possibility that if a Democrat should win in o8, will he or she be even tougher on terrorism than Bush to try to prove he or she is not soft on defence? They used to say only Nixon can go to China. Perhaps only Hilary can declare a new Crusade to convert the heathens and make the world safe for Christiandom.

I base this opinion on facts of the sloppy cover-up of 9/11. If you think the manpower and expertise of the CIA is soppy, think of the little known organization Al Qaeda being able to carry on such a huge job.

I personally never heard of Al Qaeda before 9/11 along with the majority of the Muslim world. It is also well known that Mr. Ladn was under the pay of the CIA in the Afghani revolution from the Soviets.

How come the 'terrorists' gave islamic preaching to people in a bar before attack? Why did they keep their quran and arabic flight manual in their car which was so easy to find? Don't they need quran and flight manual on the plane? How did the CIA find their identities so easily, but could not find the blackbox in the airplanes? Did their identification survive the crash? How come no one documented the Pentagon flight as it hit the CIA building or when it was flying low toward it? How exactly did the towers fall? How did you burn the foundation of the steel pillars with only the plane and jet fuel? What about the reported explosions on the bottom of the plane? How come the Alqeda denied it for so long in all their video tapes sent to Al Jazeera and other Middle east news organizations? How come only in the video tape found by Americans in a cave (not specified), did he admit he did it, that Alqeda themselves deny it as forged, along with many news organizations from the Middle East?

There needs to be more measures to prevent this thing from happening, but there also needs to be more protection for innocents in Muslim or Christian Arab communities. Human rights should not be abrogated using the excuse that war on terror. There are definately other ways to strive against this. For example, why does every law released regarding Muslims have to be negative. Why not allow Muslims Halal meat the same status as Kosher meat? Why not allow headscarf in all school as a right of Muslim women? Why not make it easier for Muslim illegal immigrants who have been living in America for years to get citizenship? Documented citizens are easier to monitor than illegals. Why not denounce religious hatred cartoons in Denmark and make it illegal in America? Why didn't the US push for Russia to recognize Chechnyan freedom? Why not push India to recognize a UN plebescite in Kashmir? Why withhold aid from Hamas and put sanctions on them and Iran? The US is creating its own problems in the Middle East.

I agree most Americans and Muslims have many things in common. We also believe in family values, respect for women, and protection of our people form harm. I don't hate Americans, I believe they are nice people. I hate the American government and especially Bush for his war crimes against my people.

Peace.

[vincent]

How did the CIA find their identities so easily, but could not find the blackbox in the airplanes? Did their identification survive the crash?

What about the reported explosions on the bottom of the plane? How come the Alqeda denied it for so long in all their video tapes sent to Al Jazeera and other Middle east news organizations? How come only in the video tape found by Americans in a cave (not specified), did he admit he did it, that Alqeda themselves deny it as forged, along with many news organizations from the Middle East?

Are you infantile or what?




"How did the CIA find their identities so easily, but could not find the blackbox in the airplanes? Did their identification survive the crash?"

You have heard of checking in at airports have you not, passenger lists, passport information etc etc, could this possibly be the method of finding there names, does your brain creak or what.




"What about the reported explosions on the bottom of the plane? How come the Alqeda denied it for so long in all their video tapes sent to Al Jazeera and other Middle east news organizations? How come only in the video tape found by Americans in a cave (not specified), did he admit he did it,"


What on earth are you on about it, i take it you think the jews were the real bombers like many polls taken in the muslim world say so.


Bin lid has admitted about a dozen times on tape he did it, everytime his bin lid face appears on tapes found in rubbish bins outside al jazeer tv news station or (rubbish tip news station), what are you saying the cia makes them in hollywood then dumps them outside al jazeers pigs swill offices.

Do you have trouble seeing bin lid on tv & understanding arabic, or are the lips of tom cruise lets say are super imposed over bin lids, distorting what is really being said.

You need to start accepting reality, not the dreamworld you are living in, i know this is a science forum, but dont you think you should be posting in a science fiction forum, where your talents could win you a oscar easily.

[GeoffP]

I understand your opinion. The modern application of 'Shariah' is not Shariah, because Shariah is a system of law which obtains its rulings and political structure from the Quran, Sunnah, and the great scholars of Islam. Some states have some laws which they call 'Shariah laws', however they are not because Shariah is a complete and pure structure which is not based on western political structures, unlike modern Islamic governments.

So the tiny nod to human rights paid by modern governments of islamic countries would - what, then - vanish under "real" shariah? Religious minorities could expect more horrors? They certainly had them under the last caliphate. Why exactly would such a system be better in any way? You rant to the moon about about how real sharia would be "complete and pure" - how exactly would it differ in any way from the present system of almost uncontrolled, unmitigated authoritarianism? There'd be more of it? Oh, joy.

Please, save the polemics and give some details. One might well opine that a "true" Christian state would be "complete and pure", but that doesn't make me want to go out and vote for Pat Robertson. I rather suspect your version of perfection is rather like the "glory" of islamic history - relative to the perspective of those experiencing it.

Armenia alleges that the Young Turks, in 1915 the dominant party in the Ottoman Empire, systematically arranged the deportation and killing of 1.5 million Armenians.

Those sorts of attacks had been going on long before 1908, and thus long before the "Young Turks" had gained power. They were the reflection of long-standing hatred of Turkish muslims towards the Christian minorities within Turkey. Your thesis, therefore, fails. The reports of Westerners in Turkey prior to the Armenian Genocide illustrates handily the feeling of muslim Turks towards their 'kufr' conationals.

You see, these people were responsible for the destruction of the Islamic State in Turkey itself. I don't know how this can be used to put Islam on defensive, since these people themselves abolished Islamic rule in Turkey, making it a secular nation.

They exploited ancient and islamic hatreds; or worse, simply allowed them to finally be expressed as the masses wished.

Some "protected" people. Indeed, all scorn be to Allah.

Originally Posted by Carcano
Islam upholds the use of force to convert the heathen - early Christianty did not, although St.Augustine later condoned the idea of a 'just war'.

Untrue.

The sura cited by Diamond is an early one created by Mohammed during the Meccan period, when he still preached peace. Sura 9 (the second to last to be revealed) abrogates Sura 109 "for if we take a verse away, do we not give the like or a better to replace it?" [Mohammed] Sura 9 preaches the murder and forcible conversion of kufr.

Q 2: 256 is, of course, not cited in full by Diamond, for obvious reasons. Here it is in full:

"Q 2: 256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right hand is henceforth distinct from error. And he who hath rejected false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.
Q2: 257 Allah is the Protecting Friend of all those who believe. He bringeth them out of light into darkness. As for those who disbelieve, their patrons are false deities. They bring them out of light into darkness. Such are rightful owners of the Fire. They will abide therein."

It's the "for the right hand is henceforth distinct from error" that kills the message, you see. There is no compulsion in islam specifically because "the right way is without error", the argument then being: how can anyone be forced into taking the 'right way' (islam, in their view)? Only a lunatic or an obstinate (liar) would refuse the right way, of course: and this is precisely how the issue is viewed in islamic countries such as Afghanistan, as we've all seen this last week. The only issue for the islamic court about the conversion of the man in that case is whether or not he's insane. That's sufficient proof of my point, frankly. I also note that many muslims make no bones whatsoever about interpreting this ayah in exactly this manner, and deriving the same position as myself from Sura 9.

From "Islam Q&A":

************************************************** *******************************

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...QR=34770&dgn=4

Question :

Some friends say that whoever does not enter Islam, that is his choice and he should not be forced to become Muslim, quoting as evidence the verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So, will you (O Muhammad) then compel mankind, until they become believers”
[Yoonus 10:99]
“There is no compulsion in religion”
[al-Baqarah 2:256]
What is your opinion concerning that?.

Answer :

The scholars explained that these two verses, and other similar verses, have to do with those from whom the jizyah may be taken, such as Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians). They are not to be forced, rather they are to be given the choice between becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah.

Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad. So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah. The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken,

[Those of other religions - Hindus, Bhuddists, atheists - are then not to given the above choice. Their lot is then death or conversion. - Geoff]

because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter. Obliging a person to adhere to the truth in which is guidance and happiness is better for him than falsehood. Just as a person may be forced to do the duty that he owes to other people even if that is by means of imprisonment or beating, so forcing the kaafirs to believe in Allaah alone and enter into the religion of Islam is more important and more essential, because this will lead to their happiness in this world and in the Hereafter. This applies unless they are People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians, or Magians, because Islam says that these three groups may be given the choice: they may enter Islam or they may pay the jizyah and feel themselves subdued.

Some of the scholars are of the view that others may also be given the choice between Islam and jizyah, but the most correct view is that no others should be given this choice, rather these three groups are the only ones who may be given the choice, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fought the kuffaar in the Arabian Peninsula and he only accepted their becoming Muslim. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

He did not say, “if they pay the jizyah”. The Jews, Christians and Magians are to be asked to enter Islam; if they refuse then they should be asked to pay the jizyah. If they refuse to pay the jizyah then the Muslims must fight them if they are able to do so. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

[al-Tawbah 9:29]

And it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) accepted the jizyah from the Magians, but it was not proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) accepted the jizyah from anyone except the three groups mentioned above.

The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]”

[al-Anfaal 8:39]

“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).

These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.

************************************************** *******************************

There you have it. Forced conversion for anyone other than "People of the Book"; jizya or death for Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians.

And if this alone is not a major to you, the invasion in Iraq has killed more than 100,000 civilians. Who knows the real number.

I do not disagree in any way that the embargo was a bad thing (although it certainly wasn't bombing that killed those people, as you misunderstand); but the latter figure has been utterly discredited. The confidence interval of the estimate ranges from 3000-170000; it is therefore useful, at a maximum, to say that the estimate is greater than zero. Beyond that, it has no value. More to the point, the estimate of other sources is around 3000 people as I recall. Again, no propaganda, please.

In answer to your question, the Taliban did not destroy the statues for religious reasons. They had been ruling for a few years, why wouldn't they have destroyed the statues when they first came into rule of the area?

Lassitude and ineffectuality. The article itself states they did it for religious reasons. Are you a liar, or merely hugely ignorant?

Yet, when some CIA agents bombed the WTC, this prompted rape, murder, and abuse for Muslims in America.

Hmm...jury's still out on the liar/ignorant thing. I'm leaning more towards liar.

If another CIA terrorist attack happens in the US, the Muslim minority will be in concentration camps.

Damn, the ignorant thing keeps popping up. It's a hard call. In a related issue, do you or do you not agree that if Iran has an obligation to execute citizens who leave islam to protect the "islamic integrity" of the nation, that the US then has a similar obligation with respect to its non-secular, non-Christian, non-Judaic members? Should the US shoot such people or imprison them? Your post above suggest you would disagree with such an action; yet you approve of such in an islamic nation.

Is islam then so weak, so febrile that it requires such protection? A house of cards falls in any kind of stiff wind; is that related to your hypocritical position?

“America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world,” Bush said

Forgive me: isn't most of the oil the US uses imported from South America and Canada?

Geoff

[GeoffP]

I base this opinion on facts of the sloppy cover-up of 9/11. If you think the manpower and expertise of the CIA is soppy, think of the little known organization Al Qaeda being able to carry on such a huge job.

What's huge about it? Hijack an airliner with a few lunkheads who know how to take off but not land, then crash the plane into buildings. Oooh. Real hard.

I personally never heard of Al Qaeda before 9/11 along with the majority of the Muslim world. It is also well known that Mr. Ladn was under the pay of the CIA in the Afghani revolution from the Soviets.

Then he went whacky and decided to kill his allies. Never heard of al-Qaeda before 9/11? No one had ever heard of the Nazis until about 1937; evil makes its own fame.

How come the 'terrorists' gave islamic preaching to people in a bar before attack? Why did they keep their quran and arabic flight manual in their car which was so easy to find? Don't they need quran and flight manual on the plane?

Umm, because usually when you're flying a plane, you don't have time to check the manual. Their objective wasn't particularly complex either. And so now the defense in terror cases should always mention how the finding of a Quran and islamic frothing to people in a bar should prove the innocence of the accused parties? I thought you were supposed to be a jurist of some kind. Is legal recourse in Pakistan based so heavily on opinionated invective?

How did the CIA find their identities so easily, but could not find the blackbox in the airplanes?

How many IDs were found? What condition were they in? Did any carry marks of damage? Were they listed on passenger manifests?

How come no one documented the Pentagon flight as it hit the CIA building or when it was flying low toward it?

No idea what you mean here.

How exactly did the towers fall? How did you burn the foundation of the steel pillars with only the plane and jet fuel?

Already covered extensively in another thread. Bottom line: heat above 500C decreases high-grade steel's support value by 50%. So the answer would be: easily.

What about the reported explosions on the bottom of the plane?

Fuel tanks.

How come the Alqeda denied it for so long in all their video tapes sent to Al Jazeera and other Middle east news organizations? How come only in the video tape found by Americans in a cave (not specified), did he admit he did it, that Alqeda themselves deny it as forged, along with many news organizations from the Middle East?

Fear. How would "many news organizations from the Middle East" be able to discriminate real from forged al-Qaeda material? Do they know the people involved?

There needs to be more measures to prevent this thing from happening, but there also needs to be more protection for innocents in Muslim or Christian Arab communities. Human rights should not be abrogated using the excuse that war on terror.

And most especially for non-muslims in muslim countries, since they are no under the double threat of first being kufr" and not being accused of being "sayyanim" merely for the crime of not being muslim. I hope that one day islamic countries will come to protect non-muslims as human beings, and not treat them as social inferiors. When will the hate end?

For example, why does every law released regarding Muslims have to be negative.

You will now provide proof of this statement.

Why not make it easier for Muslim illegal immigrants who have been living in America for years to get citizenship?

...because they're there illegally? Why not give full rights to kufr in the ummah? Why not allow other religions in Saudi Arabia? So many questions we can never know the answer to.

Documented citizens are easier to monitor than illegals. Why not denounce religious hatred cartoons in Denmark and make it illegal in America?

I agree that there is much religious hatred in America, most of it eminating from mosques, and I am glad that you are also aware of this issue. I agree that it should be illegal.

I agree most Americans and Muslims have many things in common. We also believe in family values, respect for women, and protection of our people form harm. I don't hate Americans

But you do hate them, as is evident from some of your comments on homosexuals - which you want to kill, along with apostates, which most Americans don't want.

Different sword strokes for different folks?

Geoff

[DiamondHearts]

2:257. Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever).

There is nothing wrong with this verse. I don't see your point. This is islamic view on those who worship other than Allah(swt), this is in all religions.

Islam is the ultimate and most divine religion in humanity. Islam is triumph over all its enemies, you will see the day when there will be no shelter for those who defy Allah (swt) and curse His chosen religion.

All hatred of Islam and persecution of Muslims will be tried on the Day of Judgement. Allah (swt) will be the Judge Himself, and no one is more just than He. All praise to the First, the Last, the Eternal, the Magnificient. Blessings to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (s), the mercy of all creation and sent to lead humanity from the darkness of ignorance, to the light of Islam.

Allah guide you all. Peace.

[Carcano]

2:257. Allah is the Protector of those who have faith:

Faith?
Faith means not wanting to know.

[vincent]

2:257. Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever).

There is nothing wrong with this verse. I don't see your point. This is islamic view on those who worship other than Allah(swt), this is in all religions.

Islam is the ultimate and most divine religion in humanity. Islam is triumph over all its enemies, you will see the day when there will be no shelter for those who defy Allah (swt) and curse His chosen religion.

All hatred of Islam and persecution of Muslims will be tried on the Day of Judgement. Allah (swt) will be the Judge Himself, and no one is more just than He. All praise to the First, the Last, the Eternal, the Magnificient. Blessings to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (s), the mercy of all creation and sent to lead humanity from the darkness of ignorance, to the light of Islam.

Allah guide you all. Peace.

"sent to lead humanity from the darkness of ignorance"


Well he will have decades or work in the middle east ahead of him, as well as male chauvinism, lets hope for all your sakes he shares your views on keeping women down, not counting all the jihaads he has to forgive you all for, jihaad this, jihaad that, jihaad bloody every thing.

[leopold]

Why not allow headscarf in all school as a right of Muslim women?
Peace.

the answer to this is simple
america is a multi cultural country. if we start allowing religious artifacts to be worn in school where will it end? allah is not the only god you know.
and before you even begin to disagree with that last statement i should point out that every culture has their god and their god is the only god
and since america is a multicultural country do you now see the problems that we would have?
it isn't we are godless it is because people are adamant about their gods.
i might be a baptist, you a muslim, my neighbor an atheist, the person across the street a hindu, the man in the next block a buddhist
in america you are free to worship any god you choose, you can even choose to worship no god. and nobody has a right to force their religion on you
so as far as religion in our schools i for one am against it, not so much that i am an atheist but because the students are there to learn and get educated
if you want to educate your child in your religion then take them to your place of worship

[(Q)]

Islam is the ultimate and most divine religion in humanity. Islam is triumph over all its enemies, you will see the day when there will be no shelter for those who defy Allah (swt) and curse His chosen religion.

You just can't seem to get killing infidels off your agenda, can you?

All hatred of Islam and persecution of Muslims will be tried on the Day of Judgement. Allah (swt) will be the Judge Himself, and no one is more just than He. All praise to the First, the Last, the Eternal, the Magnificient. Blessings to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (s), the mercy of all creation and sent to lead humanity from the darkness of ignorance, to the light of Islam.

Ignorance is defined as lack of education, therefore Islam IS the ignorance in which all should be lead away since it deals with faith, not education.

[leopold]

You just can't seem to get killing infidels off your agenda, can you?

if diamondhearts ever comes to america he's in for a surprise

i wonder why he is so intent on wiping out all other religions

[(Q)]

I think Diamondhearts represents most Muslims. However, Muslims perceive one another as slaves to Islam, hence they automatically assume everyone follows Islam and no one is a threat to them. That's the ideal state, however it is not the reality.

Nonetheless, they rarely, if ever, are in a position such as these forums to be inundated with people who question and criticize the very way of life they all take for granted. Since Islam teaches them that to question Islam is forbidden and those that do must be killed as infidels, they immediately get on the defensive, in the most unpleasant way. It is unheard of to question Islam and must be rather shocking to most Muslims who would enter such a forum and read about it.

If this was not on an open forum, but was instead face to face, Diamondhearts would have already run us through with a knife.

[GeoffP]

2:257.
There is nothing wrong with this verse. I don't see your point. This is islamic view on those who worship other than Allah(swt), this is in all religions.

Sigh...you claim context, then ignore context. Make up your mind. Q 2:256 makes no bones about the forcible conversion of others; Q 2:25 follows this up by claiming that all others will be damned to hell. You still refuse to address my points. Why?

Well, the following would suggest a reason:

Islam is the ultimate and most divine religion in humanity. Islam is triumph over all its enemies, you will see the day when there will be no shelter for those who defy Allah and curse His chosen religion.

In others words, those who aren't muslim. And here I thought that such people were supposed to be "dhimmis" and protected by islam. I guess it sort of depends on islam's mood on any given day. 'I feel insulted; time to make the kufr pay.' Tolerance, indeed.

All hatred of Islam and persecution of Muslims will be tried on the Day of Judgement.

And intolerance of 'kufr' by muslims - when will that end? On what day will there be trial? Are secularists allowed in the gallery?

Q[/b]]If this was not on an open forum, but was instead face to face, Diamondhearts would have already run us through with a knife.

You know...I regret to say this...I agree with this statement. I do. I think Diamond, were it in her power to do so, would have already killed us, whether we were Pakistani citizens or otherwise. And - and I regret saying this far, far more - I think she is indeed representative of most muslims, certainly the vast majority of muslims in the ME.

This is saddening.

Since Diamond's posts have effectively lost coherence at this point, may I recommend a few sites I looked up:

www.DhimmiWatch.org
www.JihadWatch.org
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/
www.secularislam.org

Geoff

[leopold]

You know...I regret to say this...I agree with this statement. I do. I think Diamond, were it in her power to do so, would have already killed us, whether we were Pakistani citizens or otherwise. And - and I regret saying this far, far more - I think she is indeed representative of most muslims, certainly the vast majority of muslims in the ME.
Geoff

i look forward to seeing what diamondhearts has to say about this

[vincent]

i look forward to seeing what diamondhearts has to say about this

How dare you accuse a muslim of being a militant, there is a peaceful muslim somewhere?

Somewhere over the rainbow
Bluebirds fly
Birds fly over the rainbow
Why then, oh why can't I?
Some day I'll wish upon a star
And wake up where the clouds are far behind me
Where troubles melt like lemondrops
Away above the chimney tops
That's where you'll find me

Somewhere over the rainbow
Bluebirds fly
Birds fly over the rainbow
Why then, oh why can't I?

If happy little bluebirds fly
Beyond the rainbow
Why, oh why can't I?

Somewhere over the rainbow
Way up high
There's a land that I heard of
Once in a lullaby



I have heard many lullaby's about peaceful muslims, take that back leopold, you low down leopard.

[leopold]

How dare you accuse a muslim of being a militant, there is a peaceful muslim somewhere?
I have heard many lullaby's about peaceful muslims, take that back leopold, you low down leopard.

where oh where have i said muslims are militant?
i believe this thread is about islam

i am begining to believa that islam is indeed a militant religion
and that the followers of islam needs to learn tolerance for all religions, all people, all cultures
islam will never be the only religion, allah will never be the only god