WHERE ARE THE "LOST TRIBES OF ISRAEL"?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Muslim, Jan 16, 2006.

  1. Muslim Immortal Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,523
    There is a general misunderstanding among most Christians and a lot of Jews regarding the identity of the children of Israel.

    EXODUS 12:51 And it came to pass, on that very same day, that the LORD brought the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt according to their armies. (NKJV)
    Who were (and are) the children of Israel? Here are two passages about the exodus from Egypt: one from a Christian source, and one from a Jewish source. See if you can identify the problem with the following comments:

    From the Christian web site EndTimes.org:

    Moses - Great prophet of God called to lead the Jews out of Egypt to the land that God promised his forefather Abraham. . . . Moses led the Jews through the desert for 40 years while God purged out the unbelievers.
    From the Jewish web site PassoverCentral.com:

    Passover is the Jewish holiday which commemorates the time in history that the Jews were slaves in Egypt and then were freed. There is a lot of symbolism which relates to our history, heritage, modern day events and world. Basically Moses leads the Jews out of Egypt via a split in the Red Sea . . .
    Do you see a problem with those comments? They reflect a common misconception about WHO the children of Israel actually are.The Bible tells us very specifically who the "children of Israel" are. They are listed in several places in the book of Genesis. The 49th chapter of Genesis gives us a list of them as Jacob is prophesying about their future from his deathbed.

    The children of Jacob, who was renamed Israel (Gen. 32:28), are:

    (1) Reuben
    (2) Simeon
    (3) Levi
    (4) Judah
    (5) Zebulun
    (6) Issachar
    (7) Dan
    (8) Gad
    (9) Asher
    (10) Naphtali
    (11) Joseph
    (12) Benjamin

    Genesis 49:28 says that "all these are the twelve tribes of Israel." It was these twelve tribes that Moses led out of Egypt. The tribe of Judah (later called "Jews") was just one of the twelve tribes that came out of slavery.

    Let's look at a brief overview of the history of Israel from the time of the Exodus until their captivity many centuries later. The twelve tribes, during the time of their wandering in the desert and when they finally conquered the Holy Land, were called the "House of Israel" (Exo. 16:31; 40:38; Lev. 10:6; Num. 20:29; Jos. 21:45).

    After coming into the land, a series of judges ruled over Israel for a period of about four hundred and fifty years (Acts 13:20). Then Israel asked for a king to rule over them, just as all the surrounding nations had (1 Sam. 8:5). God chose Saul, of the tribe of Benjamin, to rule over Israel; he was anointed by Samuel. King Saul was replaced by King David; David's son, Solomon, followed him on the throne of Israel.

    With the exception of seven and a half years at the beginning of David's reign (II Sam. 2:11), these three kings generally ruled over the united twelve tribes of Israel as one nation. However, because King Solomon late in his life worshiped other gods and did not keep the Eternal's covenant and statutes, God told him He would split the kingdom into two nations after his death (1 Kings 11:9-13). This occurred about 933 B.C.E. during the reign of Solomon's son, Rehoboam.

    This split was brought about by Rehoboam's threat to tax Israel even more than his father Solomon had (I Kings 12:1-15). Ten tribes, led by Jeroboam the Ephraimite, seceded from Rehoboam's kingdom because of this. Rehoboam, commanding the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, sought to reunify the kingdom by force.

    I KINGS 12:21 And when Rehoboam came to Jerusalem, he assembled all the House of Judah with the tribe of Benjamin, one hundred and eighty thousand chosen men who were warriors, to fight against the House of Israel, that he might restore the kingdom to Rehoboam the son of Solomon. (NKJV)
    However, God told Rehoboam that the split was divinely ordained, and that he was not to fight Israel. Rehoboam heeded God's word and sent his troops home. The separation resulted in a northern kingdom in Samaria (the House of Israel) and a southern kingdom in Judea (the House of Judah).

    From the very beginning of the split, the northern kingdom perverted and broke God's Laws. Jeroboam, the first king of the House of Israel, immediately began to change God's laws. He removed the Levites from the priesthood, causing most of them to return to the southern kingdom of Judah. He also set up calf idols at Bethel and Dan, set up shrines on high places, and changed the time and place for observing the Feasts of God (I Kings 12:26-33).

    Some try to make the case that the northern tribes were soon reconciled to the House of Judah, fulfilling the reunion spoken of in Scripture. Let's look at a few passages used by those who hold this opinion to see if they do, in fact, show that the House of Israel and the House of Judah have already been reunited. The first passage we'll examine is from II Chronicles 11:

    II CHRONICLES 11:16 And after the Levites left, those from all the tribes of Israel, such as set their heart to seek the LORD God of Israel, came to Jerusalem to sacrifice to the LORD God of their fathers. (NKJV)
    From this verse, it does sound like those from all the northern tribes who wanted to obey God left the north and returned to Judah. However, if we read one more verse, we find out that this reunion was short-lived:

    II CHRONICLES 11:17 So they strengthened the kingdom of Judah, and made Rehoboam the son of Solomon strong for three years, because they walked in the way of David and Solomon for three years. (NKJV)
    We see here that this reunion lasted only three years. So this cannot be the reunification of Israel and Judah prophesied in Scripture. Next, let's examine another supposed reunion in the reign of King Asa of Judah:

    II CHRONICLES 15:8 And when Asa heard these words and the prophecy of Oded the prophet, he took courage, and removed the abominable idols from all the land of Judah and Benjamin and from the cities which he had taken in the mountains of Ephraim; and he restored the altar of the LORD that was before the vestibule of the LORD. 9 Then he gathered all Judah and Benjamin, and those who dwelt with them from Ephraim, Manasseh, and Simeon, for they came over to him in great numbers from Israel when they saw that the LORD his God was with him. 10 So they gathered together at Jerusalem in the third month, in the fifteenth year of the reign of Asa. (NKJV)
    No reunion of all twelve tribes described here; only the tribes of Ephraim, Manasseh, and Simeon are mentioned as having joined Judah to worship God properly. In reality, there is no evidence in the Scriptures or history that Judah and Israel were reunited during this time period.

    The sins instituted by Jeroboam, based on his corruption of God's Law, plagued the House of Israel throughout its history. Because of their continual disobedience, God was angry with them. Eventually, He allowed the nation of Assyria to capture and deport the House of Israel about 721 B.C.E.

    II KINGS 17:16 So they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, made for themselves a molded image and two calves, made a wooden image and worshiped all the host of heaven, and served Baal. 17 And they caused their sons and daughters to pass through the fire, practiced witchcraft and soothsaying, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke Him to anger. 18 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them from His sight; there was none left but the tribe of Judah alone. (NKJV)
    The House of Israel was carried away captive by Assyria into the surrounding nations, never to return to their homeland. Because of their sins, God later allowed the House of Judah to be captured by the Babylonians (606-586 B.C.E.). However, many of the Jews were allowed to return to Jerusalem after Medo-Persia defeated Babylon, beginning around 536 B.C.E.

    Again, some use the book of Ezra, who wrote about the return to Judea from the Babylonian captivity, to make the case that all twelve tribes returned. They generally cite the following verse as proof:

    EZRA 2:70 So the priests and the Levites, some of the people, the singers, the gatekeepers, and the Nethinim, dwelt in their cities, and all Israel in their cities. (NKJV)
    This Scripture does say that "all Israel" dwelt in their cities. But is Ezra speaking about all twelve tribes of Israel (as those who seek to prove a reunion of Israel and Judah contend), or just those from Judah, Benjamin and Levi who had returned from Babylon? Ezra answers this question at the beginning of chapter 4:

    EZRA 4:1 Now when the adversaries of Judah and Benjamin heard that the descendants of the captivity were building the temple of the LORD God of Israel, (NKJV)
    Ezra clearly tells us that it was only Judah and Benjamin, along with the Levites and priests, that were present in Judea when the rebuilding of the Temple took place. Again, it is evident that the reuniting of Judah and Ephraim had not taken place by the time the Jews came back to Judea and Jerusalem after 70 years captivity in Babylon.

    There are many intriguing prophecies which speak about the reunion of Judah and Ephraim. Since these two houses descended from Jacob have not yet been fully reunited, these remain to be fulfilled. One of the most awesome prophecies in the Scriptures speaks of the coming end-time reunification of the House of Judah (the Jews) and the House of Israel (the "lost" ten tribes).

    EZEKIEL 37:15 Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 16 "As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: 'For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.' Then take another stick and write on it, 'For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.' 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand. 18 And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, 'Will you not show us what you mean by these?' -- 19 say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand." ' 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes. 21 Then say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God. 24 David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. 25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children's children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 28 The nations also will know that I, the LORD, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore." ' " (NKJV)
    Here we are told that the split which occurred more than 2,900 years ago (1 Kings 12; 2 Chr. 10) will be healed when the House of Israel (led by the tribe of Ephraim) is reunited with the House of Judah (led by the tribe of Judah) under the Messiah. This is one of the most important, and sadly, one of the most overlooked, prophecies in the Bible.

    Although Ezekiel's prophecy of the two sticks is probably the most graphic picture of the reunifying of the two houses, there are many others. Let's look at some more from the prophets Isaiah, Zechariah, and Jeremiah:

    ISAIAH 11:11 It shall come to pass in that day that the LORD shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people who are left, from Assyria and Egypt, from Pathros and Cush, from Elam and Shinar, from Hamath and the islands of the sea. 12 He will set up a banner for the nations, and will assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. 13 Also the envy of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not harass Ephraim. 14 But they shall fly down upon the shoulder of the Philistines toward the west; together they shall plunder the people of the East; they shall lay their hand on Edom and Moab; and the people of Ammon shall obey them. 15 The LORD will utterly destroy the tongue of the Sea of Egypt; with His mighty wind He will shake His fist over the River, and strike it in the seven streams, and make men cross over dry-shod. 16 There will be a highway for the remnant of His people who will be left from Assyria, as it was for Israel in the day that he came up from the land of Egypt. (NKJV)
    ZECHARIAH 10:1 Ask the LORD for rain in the time of the latter rain. The LORD will make flashing clouds; He will give them showers of rain, grass in the field for everyone. 2 For the idols speak delusion; the diviners envision lies, and tell false dreams; they comfort in vain. Therefore the people wend their way like sheep; they are in trouble because there is no shepherd. 3 "My anger is kindled against the shepherds, and I will punish the goatherds. For the LORD of hosts will visit His flock, the House of Judah, and will make them as His royal horse in the battle. 4 From him comes the cornerstone, from him the tent peg, from him the battle bow, from him every ruler together. 5 They shall be like mighty men, who tread down their enemies in the mire of the streets in the battle. They shall fight because the LORD is with them, and the riders on horses shall be put to shame. 6 I will strengthen the House of Judah, and I will save the House of Joseph. I will bring them back, because I have mercy on them. They shall be as though I had not cast them aside; for I am the LORD their God, and I will hear them. 7 Those of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as if with wine. Yes, their children shall see it and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD. 8 I will whistle for them and gather them, for I will redeem them; and they shall increase as they once increased. 9 I will sow them among the peoples, and they shall remember Me in far countries; they shall live, together with their children, and they shall return. 10 I will also bring them back from the land of Egypt, and gather them from Assyria. I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon, until no more room is found for them. 11 He shall pass through the sea with affliction, and strike the waves of the sea: all the depths of the River shall dry up. Then the pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the scepter of Egypt shall depart. 12 So I will strengthen them in the LORD, and they shall walk up and down in His name," says the LORD. (NKJV)
    JEREMIAH 50:1 The word that the LORD spoke against Babylon and against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet. 2 "Declare among the nations, proclaim, and set up a standard; proclaim -- do not conceal it -- say, 'Babylon is taken, Bel is shamed. Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are humiliated, her images are broken in pieces.' 3 For out of the north a nation comes up against her, which shall make her land desolate, and no one shall dwell therein. They shall move, they shall depart, both man and beast. 4 In those days and in that time," says the LORD, "the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together; with continual weeping they shall come, and seek the LORD their God. 5 They shall ask the way to Zion, with their faces toward it, saying, 'Come and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that will not be forgotten.' " (NKJV)
    These prophecies are for the end of the age, the time when the Messiah returns from heaven and establishes the Kingdom of God here on earth. As the Scriptures clearly show, the House of Israel and the House of Judah are not joined together into one stick until that time.

    Several decades before the fall of the House of Israel to the Assyrians, the prophet Hosea preached the message of God. While he addresses both the House of Judah and the House of Israel in his prophecies, his primary message is directed at the House of Israel, or Ephraim.

    HOSEA 1:1 The word of the LORD that came to Hosea the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel. 2 When the LORD began to speak by Hosea, the LORD said to Hosea: "Go, take yourself a wife of harlotry and children of harlotry, for the land has committed great harlotry by departing from the LORD." 3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son. 4 Then the LORD said to him: "Call his name Jezreel, for in a little while I will avenge the bloodshed of Jezreel on the house of Jehu, and bring an end to the kingdom of the House of Israel. 5 It shall come to pass in that day that I will break the bow of Israel in the Valley of Jezreel." 6 And she conceived again and bore a daughter. Then God said to him: "Call her name Lo-Ruhamah, for I will no longer have mercy on the House of Israel, but I will utterly take them away. 7 Yet I will have mercy on the House of Judah, will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword or battle, by horses or horsemen." 8 Now when she had weaned Lo-Ruhamah, she conceived and bore a son. 9 Then God said: "Call his name Lo-Ammi, for you are not My people, and I will not be your God. 10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' there it shall be said to them, 'You are sons of the living God.' 11 Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together, and appoint for themselves one head; and they shall come up out of the land, for great will be the day of Jezreel!" (NKJV)
    To graphically illustrate the House of Israel's rebellion against Him, Almighty God commanded Hosea to take a prostitute for a wife (Hos. 1:2). This harlot bore Hosea three children. God had Hosea name them symbolically to show how He was going to deal with the House of Israel, which had prostituted itself by worshiping strange gods. The children were named Jezreel, Lo-Ruhamah, and Lo-Ammi.

    All three of these names described God's punishment on the House of Israel, as He explained to Hosea. Jezreel (which literally means "God sows") represented God's sowing of the House of Israel among the Gentile nations of the earth after they were carried away into captivity by the Assyrians (Hos. 8:8; Zec. 10:7-10). Lo-Ruhamah (which means "no mercy") denoted the fact that the Eternal would no longer have mercy upon the House of Israel, allowing them to be taken captive because of their sins (Hos. 1:6). The name Lo-Ammi (literally "no people") pictured the gradual loss of national identity by the House of Israel. After they were conquered by Assyria, they lost the knowledge of who they were. Scattered throughout the Gentile nations of the world, the House of Israel forgot that they were part of the Eternal's chosen people (Hos. 1:9) and eventually came to view themselves as Gentiles.

    God told Hosea that He was going to cast the House of Israel away because of their sins (Hos. 1:6). However, He said that He would not cast away the House of Judah (Hos. 1:7), although later on their sins were even worse than those of the House of Israel (Eze. 23:11). The Eternal punished the House of Judah, but they have always been recognized as His people because, as a whole, they have kept the sign that He said would identify the children of Israel:

    EXODUS 31:12 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 13 "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.' " (NKJV)
    With this background, let's now look at what the New Testament has to say about the reunion of Judah and Israel. First, let's start with the apostle Paul's revelation regarding Israel, the olive tree.

    ROMANS 11:16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; (NKJV)
    In this passage of Scripture from Paul, we see two olive trees mentioned: one that is cultivated, and one that is wild. Who or what do these two olive trees represent?

    JEREMIAH 11:16 The LORD called your name, Green Olive Tree, lovely and of good fruit. With the noise of a great tumult He has kindled fire on it, and its branches are broken. 17 For the LORD of hosts, who planted you, has pronounced doom against you for the evil of the House of Israel and of the House of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke Me to anger in offering incense to Baal." (NKJV)
    Here in Jeremiah 11 we see that both houses (Israel and Judah) are called a "green olive tree." They were planted and named by the Eternal Himself. So we can be certain from Scripture that both the House of Judah and the House of Israel are symbolically labeled as olive trees. But is there any further evidence? Yes, there is! Hosea himself symbolizes Israel as an olive tree.

    HOSEA 14:5 I will be like the dew to Israel; he shall grow like the lily, and lengthen his roots like Lebanon. 6 His branches shall spread; his beauty shall be like an olive tree, and his fragrance like Lebanon. (NKJV)
    The cultivated olive tree depicts the House of Judah, which provided the foundation for the early church (Acts 2:41; 21:20). This is the olive tree of salvation, for Yeshua said that "salvation is of the Jews" (John 4:22). Paul portrays those Jews who rejected Yeshua as branches which were broken off from the cultivated olive tree because they did not believe in the Messiah God sent to His people.

    The House of Judah was and is God's lawgiver (Gen. 49:10; Psa. 60:7; 108:8); they had, and continue to have, a major part in the plan the Almighty is accomplishing. As a whole, only the House of Judah has continued to keep God's Sabbaths, which we saw from Exodus 31 are the sign He gave to distinguish His people from the rest of the nations. Because of this sign, they alone have been recognized as God's covenant people down to this day. However, the House of Israel lost their identity; they were absorbed into the nations wherein they were scattered. But God has never lost track of them:

    AMOS 9:8 "Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are on the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from the face of the earth; yet I will not utterly destroy the House of Jacob," says the LORD. 9 For surely I will command, and will sift the House of Israel among all nations, as grain is sifted in a sieve; yet not the smallest grain shall fall to the ground." (NKJV)
    The phrase "among all nations" in Amos 9:9 is b'kal hagoyim in Hebrew. An understanding of the "goyim" is very important in understanding Romans 11:25.

    This brings us back to the wild olive tree Paul speaks of in this passage of Scripture. Many people equate the wild olive tree with non-Israelite Gentile believers who accept Yeshua as the Messiah. But is this really who Paul is referring to here? There is a telling phrase used by Paul in Romans 11:25 that CONCLUSIVELY identifies who he is talking about.

    ROMANS 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so ALL ISRAEL [all twelve tribes] will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; (NKJV)
    Here Paul tells us that Israel (specifically the House of Judah, the only part of Israel that remained identifiable at that time) has been blinded to the truth for a period of time. However, he says that wild olive branches will continue to be grafted in to the cultivated olive tree to replace those branches broken off until "the fullness of the Gentiles" has been added.

    What is meant by the phrase "the fullness of the Gentiles"? Does the Bible tell us who this group is? Yes, it most certainly does!

    GENESIS 48:17 And Joseph saw that his father was putting his right hand on the head of Ephraim; and it was evil in his eyes. And he took hold of his father's hand to turn it from Ephraim's head to the head of Manasseh. 18 And Joseph said to his father, Not so, my father! For this one is the firstborn; put your right hand on his head. 19 And his father refused, and said, I know, my son, I know. He also shall be a people, and he shall become great. But his younger brother shall become greater than he, and his seed shall become the fullness of the nations [melo hagoyim]. 20 And he blessed them in that day, saying, In you shall Israel bless, saying, May God make you like Ephraim and Manasseh! And he put Ephraim before Manasseh. (The Interlinear Bible)
    Here we see the deathbed blessing of Israel upon Ephraim when he adopted him and his brother Manasseh. Israel said that Ephraim's offspring would become "the fullness of the nations." In Hebrew, this phrase is melo hagoyim. It can also be translated "the fullness of the Gentiles." The tribe of Ephraim was the leader of the northern House of Israel, and Ephraim came to be representative of all ten lost tribes. It was the descendants of these tribes that Paul had in mind when he spoke of the wild olive tree in Romans 11!

    In Romans 11:25, Paul told us that partial blindness has happened to the Jews until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. He goes on to say in verse 26, "And so all Israel will be saved." The Greek words kai houtos, translated "and so" here, are very important for us to understand. Literally, these words mean "and in this manner." A better translation of this passage reads "blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this manner all Israel will be saved."

    Paul tells us that it is through this very process of grafting lost Israelites back into the cultivated olive tree that all of Israel (all twelve tribes) would be saved. This is a clear indication that many (if not most) of those so-called Gentiles who are being grafted into the olive tree are actually lost Israelites being brought back into the fold. The "fullness of the Gentiles," Ephraim, coming back to reunite with those from Judah who are not blinded, is the foundation for the eventual salvation of ALL of Israel!

    This is verified by Paul's statement about "the Gentiles" in the 9th chapter of Romans.

    ROMANS 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, and her beloved, who was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' there they shall be called sons of the living God." (NKJV)
    In this passage, Paul quotes from the prophecy of Hosea that we read earlier about the eventual recovery of those Israelites (Ephraim and the tribes associated with him) who were cast away by God for their sins (Hos. 1:10). Unless Paul was liberally applying this prophetic Scripture here, the Gentiles he later spoke of being grafted into the olive tree were actually children of the lost Israelite tribes.

    There are other Scriptures which indicate Paul understood that most of the Gentiles he was preaching to were, in fact, descendants of the ten lost tribes who had been scattered 800 years earlier and had intermingled with all the nations round about Judea. To prove this assertion, let's first look at a telling statement by Paul found in the 10th chapter of I Corinthians:

    I CORINTHIANS 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. (NKJV)
    Here Paul is writing to a group of predominantly former pagan Gentiles (I Cor. 12:2) in Corinth, Greece. Yet in using the example of the Israelites that had been delivered from Egypt by God during the Exodus, he calls them "all OUR fathers" (I Cor. 10:1). He certainly wasn't referring to them as "fathers" in a spiritual sense, because these people were carnal; they rebelled against God and died while wandering in the desert for 40 years. So logic dictates that Paul must have been speaking of them as the Corinthians' PHYSICAL fathers.

    Here is an additional statement by Paul that implies that he well knew the ancestry of those "Gentiles" he was called to be the apostle to.

    ACTS 26:6 "And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made by God to our fathers. 7 To this promise our twelve tribes, earnestly serving God night and day, hope to attain. For this hope's sake, King Agrippa, I am accused by the Jews." (NKJV)
    The final reunification of the two houses of Israel described in the Old Testament (Eze. 37:15-28; Isa. 11:12-13; etc.) had not been accomplished at the time Paul spoke, and it still has not been accomplished! Therefore, the twelve tribes he referenced here, who were "earnestly serving God night and day," must have included so-called "Gentile" believers who were actually offspring of the lost tribes of the House of Israel!

    Paul wasn't the only one who understood the truth of this mystery. In the salutation of his epistle, James also reveals that he knew to whom he was writing when he addressed the body of believers, both Jews and "Gentiles."

    JAMES 1:1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings. (NKJV)
    Just as James did, Peter also wrote to those of all twelve tribes who were residing as aliens and strangers in Asia Minor and Asia:

    I PETER 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, (RSV)
    Even though some Jews did not return to the Holy Land after the Babylonian captivity, the legal decrees of Persian kings Cyrus, Darius, and Artaxerxes meant that they were no longer officially exiled from Judea. But the Israelites who were conquered and taken into captivity by Assyria were never formally released from their exile. Therefore, we can see that Peter is not speaking here to Diaspora Jews, as the common interpretation of this verse assumes, but rather to Israelite exiles dispersed throughout Asia Minor by Assyria!

    What Paul revealed in his epistle to the Roman assembly was the same thing Yeshua spoke of in the 10th chapter of John's Gospel:

    JOHN 10:16 "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. (NKJV)
    Here Yeshua tells his disciples that he had sheep which belonged to another flock. He was speaking of the ones to whom he was sent, the lost sheep of the House of Israel (Matt. 15:24). These sheep had lost their identity and thought that they were Gentiles. But Yeshua knew who (and where) they were, and as the Old Testament prophecies show over and over again, it was his divinely sanctioned job to retrieve them for the Father.

    A prophetic passage in the gospel of John speaks of this mystery also:

    JOHN 11:47 Then the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered a council and said, "What shall we do? For this Man works many signs. 48 If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation." 49 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish." 51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation [Judah], 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad. 53 Then, from that day on, they plotted to put Him to death. 54 Therefore Jesus no longer walked openly among the Jews, but went from there into the country near the wilderness, to a city called Ephraim, and there remained with His disciples. (NKJV)
    Yeshua didn't just die for the Jews, but also for those "children of God who were scattered abroad" (the lost House of Israel). It's interesting (and prophetic) that right after this prophecy was given, Yeshua went into a city called Ephraim, which is also the symbolic name for the children of God who had been scattered into all nations by God.

    It is certainly true that Gentiles not of Israelite descent have been included in God's congregation (Exo. 12:38; Isa. 56:3-8). The Eternal has always made a way for godly foreigners to become part of His chosen people. But Scripture seems to indicate that, for the most part, those who have been called by God to His son Yeshua (John 6:44, 65) are physical Israelites, both from the House of Judah (the cultivated olive tree) and the House of Israel (the wild olive tree).

    There is a time coming when the lost ten tribes will recognize who they are, and they will seek to be reconciled with their brothers from the House of Judah:

    ZECHARIAH 8:23 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you." ' " (NASU)
    Currently, most Jews (the House of Judah) don't accept Yeshua as the Messiah. Conversely, most Christians (the House of Israel) don't accept the necessity of keeping Torah (the Law). The Israel of God (Gal. 6:16), made up of those from both houses who are standing in the gap, accept both Yeshua and the Torah. But as numerous prophecies show, God will reunite Judah and Ephraim under the Messiah in the land of Israel. Very soon, Jews and Christians will recognize the respective flaws in their belief systems. And the Muslims will be right Godwilling (inshallah) (Allah O Akbar), God is great.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2006
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Happeh Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,263
    Hollywood or New York most likely
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,650
    THE LOST TRIBES OF ISRAEL... ARE LOST...

    most probubly obsorbed into other cultures.

    -MT
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. FelixC Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    134
    my bad, I'm doing 2 wrongs

    1) resurrecting a dead thread

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    2) & commenting on someone else's writing style, then editing it (I think my version of M's post is better)

    first, I was reading someone else's post, when I noticed this thread listed as related, so I clicked & found 2 things that made me want to comment
    1) dude, you're long-winded & a bandwidth killer, are we allowed to copy & paste so much here?
    2) I've never had a Bible study led by a Muslim before. I thought that was novel, but he made several mistakes, assuming that he understood what he was talking about
    1) the wild olive tree is Gentiles (non-Jews), which means Europeans, most Africans, most Asians, Pacific Islanders & Native Americans.
    2) assuming that both Christians & Jews are wrong in their interpretation of the Bible, that therefor Muslims are right

    I need more proof for that, since he didn't folow his own Bible study
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Jesus H Christ!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  9. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    25,817
    The Native Americans. They left the Middle east, went across Asia, ended up in North America.
    Same dark skin, same dark hair...the Native Americans are the lost tribe.
     
  10. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,658
    I know. I think he was... sober!!

    Long may he drink, and hard.
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    I thought the native Americans were from China?
     
  12. John99 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    22,046
    Native Americans are from South America. Obviously they canoed over.
     
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    From where? Africa?
     
  14. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    The exodus myth is not historical. It never happened.
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Thats a rather conclusive statement without any evidence.

    I think we don't have enough evidence to declare it either way yet.
     
  16. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,479
    if we knew where they were they wouldn't be lost now would they.

    Mod note:

    Clean up.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2008
  17. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    25,817
    yep, that was the Asia part of the travels. The most blessed of the Lost Tribes settled the in Catskills.
     
  18. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,461
    Did you have to quote that entire Tiassa style mega post?
     
  19. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,270
    Err no. I think you would find that they actually came over a land bridge that existed between the northern continent and the Asian continent and then migrated south.
     
  20. FelixC Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    134
    I know the answer, I saw this on the History Channel & Nova

    they're in Africa, Central Asia (Sama(r)kand?) & Afghanistan (Pushtans), & a people in India, near that corner part? by Burma?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2008
  21. FelixC Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    134
    so nobody answered my questions:

    1) are bandwidth killer posts allowed?
    2) are we allowed to copy & paste so much here?

    & that leads to several more questions

    3) why are dead threads shown as "related"? who controls that, Google?

    4) & why is this thread in "human science" & not in "religion" or "comparative religion" forums???
     
  22. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    So far it hasn't been enough of a problem to take notice.
    When you perform thread necromancy there's no telling what you might dig up. Some people still do that. I personally feel that we've all been to grade school and we all know how to write book reports, so there's no excuse for not spending the time to present your own abstract of something you find interesting. I'm not so concerned about the website's bandwidth as that of the members. Why require a couple of dozen people to waste five minutes reading something, just to avoid spending five minutes of your own time courteously digesting it for them?
    There's no such thing as a "dead thread." New members are urged to search before they start a new thread to make sure that their topic is not already under discussion. Sometimes they find that it was discussed in the past, but they've found new material to post. Admittedly there's a fuzzy boundary between that and thread necromancy, but most people are able to figure it out. You did figure it out, but you went ahead and posted anyway. Why?
    I don't know. Why don't you use your gravedigging skills to seek out the people who were moderating back in those days and ask them.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    There was no "Comparative Religion" board back then. We still get a fair number of religionist trolls who insist that what they post is "science." My way of dealing with it is to apply the scientific method, most often the Rule of Laplace: Extraordinary assertions require extraordinary evidence. Since they invariably provide no credible evidence, much less extraordinary, we are not obliged to take them seriously. Sometimes a question raises interesting points even if it's bullshit, sometimes it just needs to be deleted.

    BTW, in the two years since the OP, there's been a cornucopia of DNA analysis of the species Homo sapiens and we know far more about our migrations and relationships than we ever dreamed. This was discussed on SciForums and links were provided a few months ago, one of them by yours truly. Check the "Out of Africa" discussion.

    So far there are no signs of any missing Israelites showing up in odd places. During the Diaspora some Jewish people headed east and ended up in China, where they established a community. They did good business, paid their taxes and got along with their neighbors. The Chinese had no taboos about such things as bathing, literacy and lending money for interest, as the Christian Europeans did, so there was no prejudice or persecution and within a couple of centuries they disappeared through assimilation, just as today's Jewish leaders fear American Jews are doing, for the same reasons. Perhaps the same thing happened to the lost tribes. Or perhaps they were met by primitive Nazis. (Oh wait, that's redundant.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    )

    As for the aboriginal Americans, DNA analysis not only conclusively supports the long-accepted hypothesis that they came over from Asia, but it has identified the descendants of their ancestors who chose to stay home. In one striking video, a photo of a Siberian from that region was shown to a family of Navajos, whose own religion insists that they were created in Arizona and have always been there. The patriarch of the family looked long and hard, sighed, and said, "This one guy looks just like Uncle Ernie. I guess we really are all brothers, aren't we?"

    A nice sentiment.
     
  23. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    Where are the lost tribes of Israel?
    Try down the back of the setee.
    It's always worth looking there.

    If you don't find what you are looking for
    you will always find something you didn't know was lost.

    In fact, I'll start a new thread about it.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2008

Share This Page