God knew me before I was born?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by PsychoticEpisode, Nov 10, 2005.

  1. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    Psalms 139 of the Christian bible is supposed to be telling us that God knew who we were or were going to be before we were born. Interesting in a sense that if that's true then I don't see any reason for or against the following of any religion. What possible difference could it make? If He knew me before I was born then what's the point of anything in this life? If I like to hit myself over the head with a hammer then it shouldn't matter because HE KNEW. If He knew me before I was born then was it in a previous life, as a soul or on some kind of human assembly line?

    What really puzzles me is the following only because this is a science forum. If He knew who I was before I was born then why does a male produce more than one sperm per orgasmic explosion. It can only mean all sperm are identical, which they're not. Something doesn't add up here. Cloning should present some kind of enigma for the Big Guy.
     
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  3. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

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    Unfortunately this falls into "we're so special and God loves us" thing - In that since we are so unique and feel, God must love us for feeling and for being unique.

    But looking at it another way. God SHOULD know us anyway, he should know any combination of genes and the building blocks of a person wether they exist or not. It fits in with his code anyway.

    This isn't one of the most far fetched of dogma in the bible actually.
     
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  5. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, somethin's not adding up all right.
     
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  7. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    God has foreknowledge of all the universes history from the beginning to the end. God knew my eternal destination even before i came into existence in this universe. We did not exist before this universe but God knew everything about us before the universe came into existence. So if someone decided to give up trying and become slack because they think they have no control over their destiny then God always knew that they would become apathetic. Inevitably sooner or later people usually get bored with apathy.

    Gods foreknowledge of our eternal destiny is not the same as God pre-programming our destiny, we are not zombies.

    So to use an analogy The history of existence is like a real life documentary and God has got the tape and can F-Forward it and knows the outcome beforehand. The people who are in the documentary are free to say and do what they want and they say and do what they want. From that tape he has already written down in his book (the book of life) who he has selected for his next production and who gets the chop.

    Revelation 17
    8The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    Revelation 20
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[a] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  8. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    How can you say He knows everything about us before we were born and then follow it up by saying we have free will. If so then you and I and everyone else is doing nothing out of the ordinary. I see no guarantees for you Adstar.
     
  9. Nisus by peace he shall destroy many Registered Senior Member

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    Jeremiah existed before birth, according to the bible: Yawheh Said to him:


    Before
    I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. (Jer 1.5)

    Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

    Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

    Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

    Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

    When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 7:4-7)
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2005
  10. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    If god knows what we are going to do before we do it, then we don't have free will, we're just deluding ourselves that we do. Unless, of course, god doesn't exist and we actually have free will.
    Yeah, I'm going with the second one, the one that actually MAKES SENSE.
     
  11. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

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    I have always said this too...
     
  12. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    If God knew me before I was born, knew who I would be in life, knew I'd be a sinner one way or the other, knew I couldn't ask for forgiveness after death and be sincere, knew I would be killed a 2nd time, knew I would be thrown into eternal hell, then for the love of Christ why didn't He just chuck me into Hell before I was born? What purpose is there for a person or soul that you knew was already doomed, free will or no free will? Perverse pleasure?

    Why didn't I have an option? I could have told Him to just go ahead and throw me in Hell and skip the Earthly existence. Did He pretend to be my friend all the while mindful that He was going to burn me in the end? What a guy!!

    Before I am born on this Earth am I alive, dead or in limbo? If God was my friend at that time then have I been to Heaven once already? If I am to be killed a 2nd time then am I alive after my death on Earth? Even after being killed a 2nd time I must live again to enjoy Hell, I figure. Just how many times from knowing God is my friend am I alive, dead or in limbo although the latter isn't mentioned?

    The way I see it, I am alive before being born, alive after being born(is there a death in there?), alive after death and alive again after being killed the 2nd time. I die after life on Earth and die again a 2nd time somewhere else. I'm alive at least 4 times and dead twice but I can't be dead if I am to feel God's wrath. So maybe I never really die and I'm really only alive once even though I have to die at least twice. If I am born again during my life on Earth I could very well be alive 5 times during my existence(s) but that would mean I died before being born again so I would also have to die one more time. And if I became born again more than once in a lifetime? Its too numbing to think about. I need a religious mathematician.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2005
  13. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: Simple. There is no god.
     
  14. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    just because you have free will dosent mean god dont exist, imagine god with the universe, its not 3d, 4d etc imagine godperview Television and alternate simultanious dimentions, every action has an opposite and variable, there could be thousands of channels millions even billions, and god can watch any one at any time he wants, each one has free will but effects the other one, each reality has free will, but each one sets off a cause and effect chain of events, and as there is no such thing as time, just existance exists, everything comes from existance, wich itself is god.



    peace i rambled on a bit
     
  15. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Empty,

    If there is no such thing as time how would a god do anything? Remember that if anything changes from what it is to something else then that is at least an instant - which is time.

    If everything is a chain of cause and effect then everything will have been determined by a first event. In which case free will can't really exist, right?
     
  16. Nisus by peace he shall destroy many Registered Senior Member

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    Life is a matrix for learning. Says in the end we will be judged according works and our words.

    Do you at this moment in time, Cris, Consider yourself free? Free to make a decision. Free to think for yourself, to respond according to your own desires?

    Do you understand that you are free?

    To say that someone knows exactly what you will do, how you will respond, how you will receive every last experience and what eventually you become---doesn't mean you're not free.

    God's fore-knowledge doesn't affect your decisions. Just like your knowledge doesn't affect mine, and my my knowledge of things, doesn't affect your decisions.
     
  17. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    cris time does not exist, it is a concept of the human mind, only events occure in the present, the future will never come, tommorow will always become today, yesteday will never be,

    do you understand? time isnt a force or an energy, its just a mental tool/concept we used to measure lengths and chains of events that constantly happen, action = reaction, if there were no forces in the universe then time would be seen in its entirerty, and that entirety is nothing atall,


    peace,
     
  18. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

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    So if there was no life, time would not exist?

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    Time exists, therefor life is possible, the universe expands and stars burn.
     
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  20. c7ityi_ Registered Senior Member

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    Can you people feel how calm God is about everything we say? He only listens when he is supposed to listen.
     
  21. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    Hard to get excited when you already know what they're going to say. You mean He's not an omni-listener?
     
  22. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    I understand. i have posted time and time again on this forum about Gods foreknowledge and many people just cannot understand it at all.

    God knows my future. If i died at this moment i would be with Him for eternity because at this moment i believe Jesus. It is my belief that saves me. But you are right there is not guarantee for me. If i cease to believe that Jesus is The Messiah before i die then i will not spend eternity with God. But as i said before God knows my future down to the last second of my existence in this flesh body and He has known it since the beginning of time.

    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  23. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    Isn't that what I said. Everyone is doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing. I see no reason to worry about it. Doesn't matter if there are a thousand Christs or a thousand satans. Don't be frightened by it. You're religious and I'm not, god or no god, can't really change anything. If either of us was able to convince the other to change their view then it isn't really change as far as God sees it because He knew it all along.

    As for free will, the bible writers made a huge mistake putting that in there. Predeterminism negates free will. You can't have both. There'd be a lot more believers if free will was taken out but its there and we have evolved to a point where we're too smart to fall for contradiction. But if you do then it was meant to be. If you think about it, God's predetermined universe either means He has no free will once eberything was set in motion or He set it in motion before He croaked or checked out. The only other option is that its just a nice story.
     

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