Understanding Delusion(long post but worth it) Here are several examples that can help you to understand how religion works in our world today. Example 1 Let's say that I tell you the following story: * There is a man who lives at the North Pole. * He lives there with his wife and a bunch of elves. * During the year, he and the elves build toys. * Then, on Christmas Eve, he loads up a sack with all the toys. * He puts the sack in his sleigh. * He hitches up eight (or possibly nine) flying reindeer. * He then flies from house to house, landing on the rooftops of each one. * He gets out with his sack and climbs down the chimney. * He leaves toys for the children of the household. * He climbs back up the chimney, gets back in his sleigh, and flies to the next house. * He does this all around the world in one night. * Then he flies back to the North Pole to repeat the cycle next year. This, of course, is the story of Santa Claus. But let's say that I am an adult, and I am your friend, and I reveal to you that I believe that this story is true. I believe it with all my heart. And I try to talk about it with you and convert you to believe it as I do. What would you think of me? You would think that I am delusional, and rightly so. Why do you think that I am delusional? It is because you know that Santa is imaginary. The story is a total fairy tale. No matter how much I talk to you about Santa, you are not going to believe that Santa is real. Flying reindeer, for example, are make-believe. The dictionary defines delusion as, "A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence." That definition fits perfectly. Since you are my friend, you might try to help me realize that my belief in Santa is delusional. The way that you would try to shake me from my delusion is to ask me some questions. For example, you might say to me: * "But Marshall, how can the sleigh carry enough toys for everyone in the world?" I say to you that the sleigh is magical. It has the ability to do this intrinsically. * "How does Santa get into houses and apartments that don't have chimneys?" I say that Santa can make chimneys appear, as shown to all of us in the movie The Santa Clause. * "How does Santa get down the chimney if there's a fire in the fireplace?" I say that Santa has a special flame-resistant suit, and it cleans itself too. * "Why doesn't the security system detect Santa?" Santa is invisible to security systems. * "How can Santa travel fast enough to visit every child in one night?" Santa is timeless. * "Why are the toys distributed so unevenly? Why does Santa deliver more toys to rich kids, even if they are bad, than he ever gives to poor kids?" There is no way for us to understand the mysteries of Santa because we are mere mortals, but Santa has his reasons. For example, perhaps poor children would be unable to handle a flood of expensive electronic toys. How would they afford the batteries? So Santa spares them this burden. These are all quite logical questions that you have asked. I have answered all of them for you. I am wondering why you can't see what I see, and you are wondering how I can be so insane. Why didn't my answers satisfy you? Why do you still know that I am delusional? It is because my answers have done nothing but confirm my delusion. My answers are ridiculous. In order to answer your questions, I invented, completely out of thin air, a magical sleigh, a magical self-cleaning suit, magical chimneys, "timelessness" and magical invisibility. You don't believe my answers because you know that I am making this stuff up. The invalidating evidence is voluminous. Now let me show you another example... Example 2 Imagine that I tell you the following story: * I was in my room one night. * Suddenly, my room became exceedingly bright. * Next thing I know there is an angel in my room. * He tells me an amazing story. * He says that there is a set of ancient golden plates buried in the side of a hill in New York. * On them are the books of a lost race of Jewish people who inhabited North America. * These plates bear inscriptions in the foreign language of these people. * Eventually the angel leads me to the plates and lets me take them home. * Even though the plates are in a foreign language, the angel helps me to decipher and translate them. * Then the plates are taken up into heaven, never to be seen again. * I have the book that I translated from the plates. It tells of amazing things -- an entire civilization of Jewish people living here in the United States 2,000 years ago. * And the resurrected Jesus came and visited these people! * I also showed the golden plates to a number of real people who are my eye witnesses, and I have their signed attestations that they did, in fact, see and touch the plates before the plates were taken up into heaven. Now, what would you say to me about this story? Even though I do have a book, in English, that tells the story of this lost Jewish civilization, and even though I do have the signed attestations, what do you think? This story sounds delusional, doesn't it? You would ask some obvious questions. For example, at the very simplest level, you might ask, "Where are the ruins and artifacts from this Jewish civilization in America?" The book transcribed from the plates talks about millions of Jewish people doing all kinds of things in America. They have horses and oxen and chariots and armor and large cities. What happened to all of this? I answer simply: it is all out there, and we simply have not found it yet. You ask me dozens of questions like this, and I have answers for them all. Most people would assume that I am delusional if I told them this story. They would assume that there were no plates and no angel, and that I had written the book myself. Most people would ignore the attestations -- having people attest to it means nothing, really. I could have paid the attesters off, or I could have fabricated them. Most people would reject my story without question. What's interesting is that there are millions of people who actually do believe this story of the angel and the plates and the book and the Jewish people living in North America 2,000 years ago. Those millions of people are members of the Mormon Church, headquartered in Salt Lake City, Utah. The person who told this incredible story was a man named Joseph Smith, and he lived in the United States in the early 1800s. He told his story, and recorded what he "translated from the plates", in the Book of Mormon. If you meet a Mormon and ask them about this story, they can spend hours talking to you about it. They can answer every question you have. Yet the 5.99 billion of us who are not Mormons can see with total clarity that the Mormons are delusional. It is as simple as that. You and I both know with 100% certainty that the Mormon story is no different from the story of Santa. And we are correct in our assessment. The invalidating evidence is voluminous. Example 3 Imagine that I tell you this story: * A man was sitting in a cave minding his own business. * A very bright flash of light appeared. * A voice spoke out one word: "Read!" The man felt like he was being squeezed to death. This happened several times. * Then the man asked, "What should I read?" * The voice said, "Read in the name of your Lord who created humans from a clinging [zygote]. Read for your Lord is the most generous. He taught people by the pen what they didn't know before." * The man ran home to his wife. * While running home, he saw the huge face of an angel in the sky. The angel told the man that he was to be the messenger of God. The angel also identified himself as Gabriel. * At home that night, the angel appeared to the man in his dreams. * Gabriel appeared to the man over and over again. Sometimes it was in dreams, sometimes during the day as "revelations in his heart," sometimes preceded by a painful ringing in his ears (and then the verses would flow from Gabriel right out of the man), and sometimes Gabriel would appear in the flesh and speak. Scribes wrote down everything the man said. * Then, one night about 11 years after the first encounter with Gabriel, Gabriel appeared to the man with a magical horse. The man got on the horse, and the horse took him to Jerusalem. Then the winged horse took the man up to the seven layers of heaven. The man was able to actually see heaven and meet and talk with people there. Then Gabriel brought the man back to earth. * The man proved that he had actually been to Jerusalem on the winged horse by accurately answering questions about buildings and landmarks there. * The man continued receiving the revelations from Gabriel for 23 years, and then they stopped. All of the revelations were recorded by the scribes in a book which we still have today. [Source: "Understanding Islam" by Yahiya Emerick, Alpha press, 2002] What do you make of this story? If you have never heard the story before, you may find it to be nonsensical in the same way that you feel about the stories of the golden plates and Santa. You would especially feel that way once you read the book that was supposedly transcribed from Gabriel, because much of it is opaque. The dreams, the horse, the angel, the ascension, and the appearances of the angel in the flesh -- you would dismiss them all because it is all imaginary. But you need to be careful. This story is the foundation of the Muslim religion, practiced by more than a billion people around the world. The man is named Mohammed, and the book is the Koran (also spelled Qur'an or Qur'aan). This is the sacred story of the Koran's creation and the revelation of Allah to mankind. Despite the fact that a billion Muslims profess some level of belief in this story, people outside the Muslim faith consider the story to be imaginary. No one believes this story because this story is a fairy tale. They consider the Koran to be a book written by a man and nothing more. A winged horse that flew to heaven? That is imaginary -- as imaginary as flying reindeer. If you are a Christian, please take a moment right now to look back at the Mormon and Muslim stories. Why is it so easy for you to look at these stories and see that they are imaginary fairy tales? How do you know, with complete certainty, that Mormons and Muslims are delusional? You know these things for the same reason you know that Santa is imaginary. There is no evidence for any of it. The stories involve magical things like angels and winged horses, hallucinations, dreams. Horses cannot fly -- we all know that. And even if they could, where would the horse fly to? The vacuum of space? Or is the horse somehow "dematerialized" (see Chapter 27) and then "rematerialized" in heaven? If so, those processes are made up too. Every bit of it is imaginary. We all know that. An unbiased observer can see how imaginary these three stories are. In addition, Muslims can see that Mormons are delusional, Mormons can see that Muslims are delusional, and Christians can see that both Mormons and Muslims are delusional. One final example Now let me tell you one final story: * God inseminated a virgin named Mary, in order to bring his son incarnate into our world. * Mary and her fiancé, Joseph, had to travel to Bethlehem to register for the census. There Mary gave birth to the Son of God. * God put a star in the sky to guide people to the baby. * In a dream God told Joseph to take his family to Egypt. Then God stood by and watched as Herod killed thousands and thousands of babies in Israel (see Chapter 16) in an attempt to kill Jesus. * As a man, God's son claimed that he was God incarnate: "I am the way, the truth and the life," he said (see Chapter 18). * This man performed many miracles. He healed lots of sick people. He turned water into wine. These miracles prove that he is God. * But he was eventually given the death sentence and killed by crucifixion. * His body was placed in a tomb. * But three days later, the tomb was empty. * And the man, alive once again but still with his wounds (so anyone who doubted could see them and touch them), appeared to many people in many places. * Then he ascended into heaven and now sits at the right hand of God the father almighty, never to be seen again. * Today you can have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus. You can pray to this man and he will answer your prayers. He will cure your diseases, rescue you from emergencies, help you make important business and family decisions, comfort you in times of worry and grief, etc. * This man will also give you eternal life, and if you are good he has a place for you in heaven after you die. * The reason we know all this is because, after the man died, four people named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote accounts of the man's life. Their written attestations are proof of the veracity of this story. This, of course, is the story of Jesus. Do you believe this story? If you are a Christian, you probably do. I could ask you questions for hours (see the prior 25 chapters...) and you will have answers for every one of them, in just the same way that I had answers for all of the Santa questions that my friend asked me in Example 1. You cannot understand how anyone could question any of it, because it is so obvious to you. Here is the thing that I would like to help you understand: The four billion people who are not Christians look at the Christian story in exactly the same way that you look at the Santa story and the Mormon story and the Muslim story. You can see where this is heading. There's not a good way to sugar-coat it. There are four billion people who stand outside of the Christian bubble, and they can see reality clearly. The fact is, Christians are delusional. Christians are as delusional as the Muslims and the Mormons. How do the four billion non-Christians know, with complete certainty, that Christians are delusional? Because the Christian story is just like the Santa story, the Mormon story and the Muslim story. The Christian story is imaginary. There is the magical insemination, the magical star, the magical dreams, the magical miracles, the magical resurrection, the magical ascension and so on. People outside the Christian faith look at the Christian story and note that: * The miracles are supposed to "prove" that Jesus is God, but, predictably, they left behind no tangible evidence for us to examine and scientifically verify today * Jesus is resurrected, but, predictably, he does not appear to anyone today * Jesus ascended into heaven and answers our prayers, but, predictably, when we pray to him nothing happens. We can statistically analyse prayer and find that prayers are never answered * The book where Matthew, Mark, Luke and John make their attestations does exist, but, predictably, it is chock full of problems and contradictions * And so on. In other words, the Christian story is a fairly tale, just like the other three examples we have examined. Now, look at what is happening inside your mind at this moment. If you are a Christian, I am saying that you are delusional. At some level, because you have just seen how delusional the Mormons and the Muslims are, you know that I am correct. But, if you are a practicing Christian, you are in the process of rejecting what I am saying to you. You may even be mad at me. You may right now be trying to create rationalizations to "prove" that Jesus really did "appear to people after his death" and "ascend into heaven." The fact that you are trying to rationalize the Christian story, even though you so easily rejected the Santa story, the Mormon story and the Muslim story, shows you the depth of your delusion. And now you are mad at me for saying that. Try, just for a moment, to get up above this situation and look at yourself. It is pretty interesting, isn't it? There is some part of your brain that knows that I am right. But there is another, much larger part of your brain that is clinging to the delusion. Why? Have you ever thought about that? Why is your brain doing this? You KNOW that the Muslims and the Mormons are delusional. At some level, therefore, you know that you are delusional too. The Christian story is just as imaginary. But it is so hard to accept that because... because... why? Why is this happening? Discovering for yourself the reason why this is happening to you is a big part of this book. You are going to learn why your brain is doing this to you, and how you can stop it. In other words, you will learn how to think rationally about your religion. Try, just for a moment, to look at Christianity with the same amount of healthy skepticism that you used when approaching the stories of Santa, Joseph Smith and Mohammed. Compare Jesus' story to the story of Santa Claus, and the story of the golden plates, and the story of Gabriel's revelations. Use your common sense to ask some very simple questions of yourself: * Is there any physical evidence that Jesus existed? - No. He left no trace. His body "ascended into heaven." He wrote nothing down. None of his "miracles" left any permanent evidence. There is, literally, nothing. * Is there any reason to believe that Jesus actually performed these miracles, or that he rose from the dead, or that he ascended into heaven? - There is no more of a reason to believe this than there is to believe that Joseph Smith found the golden plates hidden in New York, or that Mohammed rode on a magical winged horse to heaven. Probably less of a reason, given that the record of Jesus' life is 2,000 years old, while that of Joseph Smith is less than 200 years old. * You mean to tell me that I am supposed to believe this story of Jesus, and there is no proof or evidence to go by beyond a few attestations in the New Testament of a Bible that is provably meaningless? - Yes, you are supposed to believe it. You are supposed to take it on "faith." No one (besides little kids) believes in Santa Claus. No one outside the Mormon church believes Joseph Smith's story. No one outside the Muslim faith believes the story of Mohammed and Gabriel and the winged horse. No one outside the Christian faith believes in Jesus' divinity, miracles, resurrection, etc. But two billion people do believe in those ideas. They are called Christians. Those billions believe in Jesus so strongly that many will hold you in contempt if you do not believe what they do. The question I would ask you to consider right now is simple. Let me ask it in two parts: * How do Christians look at the stories behind the Muslim faith and the Mormon faith and know, with total certainty, that those stories are fairy tales? * How do Muslims look at the stories behind the Christian faith and the Mormon faith and know, with total certainty, that those stories are fairy tales? Why is it that human beings can detect fairy tales with complete certainty when those fairy tales come from other faiths, but they cannot detect the fairy tales that underpin their own faith? Why do they believe their chosen fairy tale with unrelenting passion and reject the others as nonsense? For example: * Christians know that when the Egyptians built gigantic pyramids and mummified the bodies of their pharaohs, that it was a total waste of time. * Christians know that when the Aztecs carved the heart out of a virgin and ate it, that it accomplished nothing. * Christians know that when Muslims blow themselves up with suicide bombs, that they do not go to heaven and receive 72 virgins as their reward. * Christians know that when Jews keep meat and dairy products separate, that they are wasting their time -- otherwise the cheeseburger would not be an American obsession. Yet, when Christians look at their own religion, they are for some reason blind to the delusions of their own faith. To an unbiased observer, it is easy to see what is going on. All of these stories -- Santa, Smith, Mohammed and Jesus -- are fairy tales. All four of the stories are equally delusional. A simple experiment If you are a Christian who believes in the power of prayer, here is a very simple experiment that will show you the nature of your delusion. Take a coin out of your pocket. Now pray sincerely to Ra: Dear Ra, almighty sun god, I am going to flip this ordinary coin 50 times, and I am asking you to cause it to land heads-side-up all 50 times. In Ra's name I pray, Amen. Now flip the coin. Chances are that you won't get past the fifth or sixth flip and the coin will land tails. What does this mean? Most people would look at this data and conclude that Ra is imaginary. We prayed to Ra, and Ra did nothing. We can prove that Ra is imaginary (at least in the sense of prayer-answering ability) by using statistical analysis. If we flip the coin thousands of times, praying to Ra each time, we will find that the coin lands heads or tails in exact correlation with the normal laws of probability. Ra has absolutely no effect on the coin no matter how much we pray. Even if we find a thousand of Ra's most faithful believers and ask them to do the praying/flipping, the results will be the same. Ra has no effect on the coin. Therefore, as rational people, we conclude that Ra is imaginary. We look at Ra in the same way that we look at Leprechauns, Mermaids, Santa and so on. We know that people who believe in Ra are delusional. Now I want you to try the experiment again, but this time I want you to pray to Jesus Christ instead of Ra. Pray sincerely to Jesus like this: Dear Jesus, I know that you exist and I know that you hear and answer prayers as you promise in the Bible. I am going to flip this ordinary coin 50 times, and I am asking you to cause it to land heads-side-up all 50 times. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen. Now flip the coin. Once again, after the fifth or sixth flip, the coin will land tails. If we flip the coin thousands of times, praying to Jesus each time, we will find that the coin lands heads or tails in exact correlation with the normal laws of probability. Jesus has absolutely no effect on the coin no matter how much we pray. If you are a Christian, watch what happens in your mind. The data is absolutely identical in both experiments. With Ra we looked at the data rationally and concluded that Ra is imaginary. But with Jesus... something else will happen. In your mind, you are already coming up with a thousand rationalizations to explain why Jesus did not answer your prayer: * It is not his will * He doesn't have time * I didn't pray the right way * I am not worthy * I do not have enough faith * I cannot test the Lord like this * It is not part of Jesus' plan for me * And on and on and on... One rationalization that you may find yourself developing is particularly interesting. You may say to yourself: “Well, of course Jesus doesn’t answer me when I pray about a coin toss, because it is too trivial." This is your delusion speaking to you yet again. If you read what Jesus says about prayer in the Bible (see Chapter 5), Jesus does not ever say, "don't pray to me about coin tosses." Jesus clearly says he will answer your prayers, and he puts no boundaries on what you may pray for. You have invented this excuse on behalf of Jesus in order to support your delusion. If you think about it, you will realize that you are an expert at creating rationalizations for Jesus. The reason you are an expert is because Jesus does not answer any of your prayers (see section 1). The reason why Jesus does not answer any of your prayers is because Jesus is imaginary. The simple fact of the matter is this: your belief in the Christian story is a delusion, and it is identical to the delusions of the Mormons and the Muslims. What this simple little experiment shows us is fascinating. When we pray to Ra and nothing happens over thousands of trials, we look at the data rationally and we conclude that Ra is imaginary. But when we pray to Jesus and nothing happens, we do not do that. Instead, we try to rationalize all the reasons why Jesus did not answer our prayers. Ask yourself this simple question: why the difference? by Marshall Brain taken from here http://whydoesgodhateamputees.com/your-delusion.htm
A true believer would not make such statements. Those are the statements of someone who would rather not believe in God.
i accept that their are superficial delusions pople get caught up in. this has been central to my reesearch....but, what i sense a lot of 'a-teists' do, is the throw te baby outa with tea bathwater. ie., in denying the theist 'God'--which as a delusion -in my opinion, they also throw out teir own deeper power. power which is deeply connected with Nture, universe and multidimensional reality This is an extraordinarally 'subtle' Depth which is aversw to the mchanical approach of LOGOS driven materialistic science wit its hard intrusive instruments of measurement
atheists have every right to deny god. its rational and supportable to believe that the god of every religion on earth does not exist the way that they believe it does. it is important to keep an open mind that will accept proof of a gods existence if it presents itself, but how can you believe in something without any idea or indication of how or why it would exist? i personally would rather wait for science to describe a feasable concept of creation before i accept a premature explanation based on nothing but an institutionalization of ancient ethnic biases and dietary restrictions and supersticious tribal folk traditions. if god shows up, i'll accept it, until then, speculation without proof is pretty useless.
I don't hate marshal brian for that document i feel sorry for Him. And as for the prayer test. God said never put Him to the test. The fact is that belief in God is founded on His Word. Not on signs or "answered" prayers. All the human logic falls to the ground because all human logic is limited by limited humans. poor self deluded people. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Adstar - I was wondering which is the true religion? Is there 1 God or 2 Gods or many Gods or maybe instead no real Gods and a Buddha or many Buddhas? So, why don't YOU tell us, which are poor self deluded people, as obviously you're one of those lucky few that have the TRUE understanding of Gods and Buddhas and the Universe? Lucky You! Michael
Religion=politics It is no more than advertising propaganda which is based on very little if any facts. Santa clause is the same, there is some truth and background, but today it is used as propaganda, the kids believe it, want presents, and this keeps parents busy at the end of each year, any parent not buying presents for their kids would somehow be percieved as evil or a scrooge. But Charles Dickens taught us the true meaning in his "A Christmas Carol" tale, the true meaning begs the question: If you can be forgiving, love thy neighbour and be giving for just one day why can you not do it for the whole year? But that question and meaning is lost to corporate propaganda and advertising. The same with religion, if you tear away the propaganda and politics at it's core is something moral, something good, something people should follow for world peace, but human nature gets in the way and as far as i'm concerned that core is filled with maggots and cockroaches, due to human nature. Plus everyone else has religions which counter what the other says, and it goes back into politics with holy wars. It is not so much a delusion, but a political ideology to control behaviour and struggle for worldwide commitment for moral values.
This is a valid scientific experiment with an appalling conclusion derived from it... God doesn't answer my prayer - ergo God does not exist? This is not a scientific conclusion, but a conclusion of one who is looking to disprove God. Ask a deaf person to count to ten. The deaf person doesn't hear and doesn't respond - ergo the deaf person does not exist? Geeser, I understand what you're trying to say, but the experiment you gave and the conclusion you draw are simplistic and naive. The only thing this experiment could disprove is if someone claimed that all their prayers were answered by God. But then such a person would be foolish to put such a claim to the test. You can not prove the non-existence of God through experiment. You can only disprove the claims of existence through experiment.
they are illustrative statements, take it as you wish. if thats what you believe, then so be it, but what of the christians who could think like that are they not worthy of gods love too. even you had doubts in the past, if your delusion is strong, nothing will change it. how would you know this, your human are you not. exactly what we're talking about you got it. dont follow, the deaf person can be seen, touched, etc, how would he not exist if he did'nt hear you. nobody tried, just pointing out the inconsistences,and fallacies, in there reasoning. it would be infantile to try to proof a negative.
i wonder if you really want the answer? The truth is there is a God who revealed Himself to Abraham. There is one savior Jesus. There is one God. buddha was a man and from what i know buddha never claimed to be a God? The list is so long these days. The question is not who is deluded the question is who is not deluded? Luck has nothing to do with it. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
geeser geeser even an imperfect being can have enough judgement to observe that something is imperfect. If we did have perfect logic then everyone would be perfect. we would live in a human paradise there would be no wars no domestic violence no racism no.. Well i could go on and on and on. Many people shake their heads at those who believe in God and call us stupid but you must realize that many people who believe in God look back and shake their heads at people like you. If people like you truly observed the world and the ways of men then your faith in mankind would be shattered. But your logic blinds you to the truth that man is a faulty doomed creature. It's only a matter of time before mankind destroys the Eco-system and brings themselves to destruction. But poor creatures like you geeser have a totally illogical faith in mankind. The only reason mankind has survived this long is we have not had the ability to destroy ourselves until recently. But the old trusty human drives like greed and lust for domination and power is more reliable then fear of Armageddon. You can always rely on these base human instincts to cloud judgement and remove wisdom and lead ruthless man to plunge the world into the abyss. But i guess that all sounds so illogical to you. Well just let the earth program run for a few more years and you will see how illogical fearful and angry populations can be. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
It's only a matter of time before mankind destroys the Eco-system and brings themselves to destruction. Of course, todays mankind is a result of religious thought, not atheist thought. But the old trusty human drives like greed and lust for domination and power is more reliable then fear of Armageddon. It is those drives which are most prevalent in theists, who run most of the world today. Organized religions are at the top of that list. You can always rely on these base human instincts to cloud judgement and remove wisdom and lead ruthless man to plunge the world into the abyss. No problem, they'll be forgiven, right?
I don't shake my head at people who believe in a God, as I can at least understand that. However, I shake my head at people who belong to an organized religion. If only they realized that they have a one in a zillion chance of creating/belonging to a religion that accurately represents their creator (if there is one). They use their false religion to distort politics and start wars and renders us unable to think for ourselves.
honestly, i want to reply to your post, but i have no idea what the fuck youre talking about at all. i dont understand whether you are asking a question or responding to me, hell i cant even decipher some of the words. sorry.
who mentioned perfection, not I. so a dog with four legs, knows a dog with three legs is imperfect. or a dog with three legs that can run and move just as agilely as a dog with four legs knows it's imperfect. please define limited and imperfection, or are you too limited to do so, how would you know what was perfect, and what was not, your limited. the biblegod can not be perfect. A perfect being, by definition, has no needs or desires or wants to be met. A perfect being in a perfect situation would not have a desire to change a thing- in fact, it would have no needs or desires at all. Perfection could not desire anything other than perfection, i.e. itself. Beings can only desire what they don't already have, and a perfect being already has everything it wants, and therefore a perfect being can have no wants. Therefore, if a perfect being existed, "in the beginning" it would have done nothing at all- as nothing at all would have ever needed to be done- you can't improve on perfection- you can only mess it up. You are complete- you lack nothing. Therefore, if there really were a Biblegod, and if it were really perfect, it would have done nothing. Forever. It would act as the most stoned stoner that ever existed, the ultimate cosmic couch potato. The fact that we and the universe around us exists is proof positive that there is no such being, http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/biblegod_can_not_be_perfect.htm and when we eradicate religion completely, we will have that utopia. it is until we can eradicate religion it will always be this way. no it tells me he is, while he allow religion to have dominion over him. unless we can eradicate his religious mindset. no, I have faith in mans ability to change and see the truth and one day we will hopefully be religion free. but it has'nt been for the want of try, religion has a lot to answer for. just has the religious leaders have done since time began. religion always has. especially with the religious zealots pushing the weak minded to kill.
Actually Buddhists would believe that becoming a Buddha would be “better” (or higher per sey) than a God. As God is still stuck in the Karma cycle and will eventually be reborn as an animal. Funny enough, your placating God only prolongs its Godhood and scuttles its opportunity to reach Buddha. Regardless, 1) Were you raised a Christian? -and/or- 2) Were you born into a country where Christianity is normally practiced? Thanks Michael
There is little point it showing people the truth when their illogical emotions lead them to believe that humans can achieve a state that humans have never achieved in all recorded history. Even you own observations and arguments confirm that mankind is incapable of achieving perfection. Mao's red guards where just like you guys are now. They thought they could create a paradise on earth and they where far more ruthless in the action they took to secure it. But like so many others before, all their efforts where in vain. They where used as will all the starry eyed idealists who allow their vanity to get the better of them. They all get used and abused in the end. satan is laughing at you. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
