Has Science proved the REAL date of the apocalypse? If so, then its not anytime soon

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Imagine2005, Oct 16, 2005.

  1. Imagine2005 Registered Member

    Messages:
    23
    Hi everyone. Before I get into this, let me just mention that I believe there is a God and that he uses Science to work his magic and to logically prove his existence. Therefore, Religion and Science are one. I hope this helps to explain the consideration of the thoughts/beliefs that I am about to present to you and where they are coming from.

    Here we are thinking the world is going to end really soon, like in our lifetime, between now and 2100 A.D. See though, I think science just may have already proved the "real" end times and they did it blindly, and I think many of us overlooked it too... First things first, let's pull our heads out of our butts and take a step back, look at everything in big picture perspective (aka God perspective or UNIVERSE perspective)...

    As you may already know, there exists two points in Time, B.C. and A.D. Now it all began in B.C. roughly 15-20 Billion years ago. It started with the big bang (or rather, the beginning of creation). Science and Religion both have proven an ultimate beginning and end. For religion, see, it's the dawn of creation and then ends with the apocalypse. Science decodes this language which translates: From Big Bang to Big Crunch (or Rip, Freeze, either one we're all dead).

    Here's what I'm getting at. The "Life" God has created it operates on a "Time Arc" of sorts which is called B.C./A.D.

    Is it no surprise that Science is telling us that the universe will ultimately end roughly around the same time that it began, except in future tense?

    Ex. Big Bang: 15 Billion B.C. and Big ______: 15 Billion A.D.

    B.C. and A.D. mirror each other. Around 3-5 billion years B.C., the earth and Sun was created. Around this time in A.D. it will go bye bye. Coincidence? I think not. With the end of the universe (and everything else before it) paves the way for creation of New heavens and new earth. Now THAT sounds very logical.

    This "Time Arc" of sorts makes a lot more sense, especially in terms of an Almighty supreme being, as opposed to "Oh let's just assume Jesus will return on some random day in the 21st or 22nd centuries". That sounds just as bad as some guy saying "Oh let me just sit here and rot in my cubicle until I win the lottery". That doesn't sound like somebody with a big picture perspective.

    Everything you've read in revelations from the global earthquake to the stars falling from the sky (the falling stars = Andromeda colliding with Milky Way), all the fire and lava, sun turning red (the Sun's demise, Hello!) . God said he is the Alpha and the Omega, the Alpha happened when the Big Bang occured. What says the Omega couldn't possibily be the Big Crunch/Rip/Freeze itself?

    I highly recommend that you all read Isaac Asimov's short story "The Last Question" if you haven't already, because it has many similarities to what I am talking about. You can find it online.

    Last thing... Besides, does it make a lot of sense to end the world anytime soon? Aside from all the bad things going on (since when were they NOT going on anyway??), do you think God is not aware of the millions of people on this world who have dreams and those who are willing to make them become a reality through belief in him??

    God wants man to become great. He said he will make you the head, not the tail, the lender and not the burrower. He wants you to struggle, strive, change, grow, and overcome.

    We know God knows the REAL end date, but do you really think such a loving father, almighty supreme being would be rude enough to book it on a day when Joe gets his acting career kicked off, Harry meets the love of his life, Sally meets the love of her life, Mr. Entrepeunuer finally reaches out to others, Batman Begins 2 is released in theaters, and Mr. Nobody wins the lottery??? Come on, hasn't anyone here taken any of this into account??

    Sorry for the very long post, I had lots on my mind. Thoughts, opinions, anyone?
     
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  3. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    Wow!
    Where to start...
    First of all, who is this "we" that beleives the world will end in our lifetimes?
    I don't think I have anyone who believes that (except for a few crazies that point to the Maya calendar and scream).
    Certainly no one in the science community (or otherwise of even slightly rational mind).

    Science has not "proven" that there was a "beginning" and it is even further from proving there will be an "end".
    Religion has proved nothing at all, simply made predictions about the "end" and offered baseless ideas about the "beginning".

    BC and AD....
    They are not points in time at all.
    The ONLY basis we have for the calendar we use is entirely subjective and based on an arbitrary decision to start a new "era" at the (incorrect, by most assesments) time of Jesus' birth.
    There is absolutely NO scientific reason to have that dividing line places specifically there (except out of simple convention, because people are use to it).
    Many people do not even USE that calendar.
    So, even if science DOES prove (for lack of a better term) that there will be an "end", it would have absolutly nothing to do with the Greco-Roman calendar or any other arbitrarily chosen point in the extraordinarily short (so far) period of man's existence on earth.

    I'm guessing this is a joke?
    It is astoundingly arrogant of man to assume the universe (which existed for so many millenia before man) revolves around not only him but the ridiculous little pointless whims and passtimes he has invented in his wholly insignificant existence.
    Even if you DID decide to believe that this is all here for OUR benefit there is no reason to believe that God would be watching the mundane every day happenings of our lives and pulling the strings to our advantage in any way.
    Otherwise why would there be starvation, disease, pestilence, murder, rape, and on and on and on.
    Why does anyone believe that if God exists he gives half a shit about your petty little dreams and aspirations? ESPECIALLY such silly distractions we have in our "modern" lives.

    In summary, I disagree with EVERYTHING you just said and think most of it doesn't even make any sense, never mind being believable.
     
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  5. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    Correction:
    I DO agree with ONE thing.
    There is no reason to believe the "end", if it exists, will be any time soon.
     
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  7. Imagine2005 Registered Member

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    <<First of all, who is this "we" that beleives the world will end in our lifetimes?>>

    It's a general statement, which is true. Look around nowadays and you'll many, many, many people who think it's going to happen soon. Not everybody of course, but plenty. There's some on SF as well.

    <<I'm guessing this is a joke?
    It is astoundingly arrogant of man to assume the universe (which existed for so many millenia before man) revolves around not only him but the ridiculous little pointless whims and passtimes he has invented in his wholly insignificant existence.
    Even if you DID decide to believe that this is all here for OUR benefit there is no reason to believe that God would be watching the mundane every day happenings of our lives and pulling the strings to our advantage in any way.
    Otherwise why would there be starvation, disease, pestilence, murder, rape, and on and on and on.
    Why does anyone believe that if God exists he gives half a shit about your petty little dreams and aspirations? ESPECIALLY such silly distractions we have in our "modern" lives.>>

    Well, if he doesn't give a shit, why the heck did he even bother giving us these dreams, gifts, and aspirations??? Sounds pointless, doesn't it.

    He's the heavenly "Father". Now all fathers in general want their children to succeed in life and inspire others, they pass their knowledge and teachings onto them in hope of reachinig out to others' lives somehow and doing some good. You think God wants the opposite of that?

    Why create such a vast, seemingly endless universe if he didn't want us to explore and discover? Why not just make it big enough to fit our entire solar system? Wouldn't that make more sense? Just how our parents all watched us learn to talk and walk and so forth, I believe God is doing the same thing.
     
  8. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,936
    Why would the world end during our lifetimes? Our lifetimes are the snap of a finger - nothing. Time only seems like a big deal because we are here and we are living it and watching it unfold. But the 'end of the world' is unlikely to happen any time soon. One way or another life will exist on this planet for a long long time. And wether or not humans created the concept of B.C and A.D has no connection to the beginning or the end of the world.

    This thread is a complete joke and is the world of another stupid person who goes "oooh we can dream... God cares so much about us!". Just stop trying to impy such special importance to your lifetime and a special relationship with 'God'. The universe doesn't revolve around the Earth anymore.

    Why are there so many people who want to believe in the end of the world? Why everytime a hurricain hits land do people claim it was a punishment from God, and that it was a warning before the 'end of time'? People who spout this rubbish are really even more insane than the average fundamentalist christian.
     
  9. Imagine2005 Registered Member

    Messages:
    23
    << This thread is a complete joke and is the world of another stupid person who goes "oooh we can dream... God cares so much about us!". Just stop trying to impy such special importance to your lifetime and a special relationship with 'God'. The universe doesn't revolve around the Earth anymore.>>

    When you set out to do something or say something that is against the normal grain of things, you're bound to get some criticism. Therefore I'm not surprised that you labeled this thread as a complete joke when all it really is food for thought/a different opinion, and then me as "another stupid person" when you know nothing at all about me.

    Regardless of all negative criticism in your response, I highly agree with your views about the continuation of life on Earth for a very, very long time to come as I believe there's many, many things for mankind to explore and accomplish.
     
  10. Adstar Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,782
    Who ever said that the world was going to come to an end soon? The scriptures say:

    Genesis 9
    11 Thus I establish My covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.” 12 And God said: “This is the sign of the covenant which I make between Me and you, and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:

    Now the scripture is saying the flood destroyed the earth. Now of course the world is still here, So it did not destroy the earth totally, But it did destroy the kind of world the earth was before the flood. So when the bible talks about the coming destruction of the earth by fire it is not talking about the end of the world but only the end of the world as it is now. See the reference to "perpetual generations" that means forever.

    Isaiah 66
    15 For behold, the LORD will come with fire
    And with His chariots, like a whirlwind,
    To render His anger with fury,
    And His rebuke with flames of fire.
    16 For by fire and by His sword
    The LORD will judge all flesh;
    And the slain of the LORD shall be many.

    and later in the same chapter.

    22 “ For as the new heavens and the new earth
    Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the LORD,

    “ So shall your descendants and your name remain.
    23 And it shall come to pass
    That from one New Moon to another,
    And from one Sabbath to another,
    All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the LORD.
    24 “ And they shall go forth and look
    Upon the corpses of the men
    Who have transgressed against Me.


    So the destruction by fire will not be the total annihilation of the world. The new earth will be a renewed earth:

    Revelation 21
    1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” 5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.”

    So The end of this world is not the end of the world.

    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2005
  11. FieryIce Tic Toc, World in Cobalt Blue Registered Senior Member

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    I would suggest you read the Bible first for the facts.
    The Earth will not be destroyed but democracy/demonocracy will, remember the Kingdom of God is a Monarchy.
     
  12. Trilairian Registered Senior Member

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    581
    Why would God need science to prove his existence. I don't need it to prove mine.
    That is not a logical inference.
    Everyone picks such nice numbers. Why not something more interesting like 3141 Ad May 9, 2hrs 6min 53sec for pi?
    Why do you assume we are in the middle, and why do you assume God is Christian making the ADBC transition the zero point?
    No because your wrong on the dates even though you gave yourself 2 billion year error bars.
     
  13. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,452
    I think what the thread starter is saying is that Christ showed up exactly halfway thru the Earth's life cycle. So we have another 4.5 billion to go. He's assuming that God planned this 'remarkable coincidence'. So much for the second coming of Christ.
     
  14. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,855
    I would suggest you read the Bible first for the facts.

    Do you think that if god had chosen the humerus bone instead of a rib, women would find mens jokes funny?
     
  15. Trilairian Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    581
    I would suggest something nonfiction.
     
  16. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    5,758
    Just to point out that in revelations those stars that fall end up landing on planet earth. Somehow the planet is still intact and people are still alive after that happens. It would seem god/ancient people had no idea what stars were, and that if one did crash land on planet earth, it would most certainly be game over. Nowhere does it mention or imply that this event has anything to do with Andromeda or the Milky Way.
     
  17. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,232
    Who is we? I don't think so. I don't know anyone, personally, who thinks this. What gave you this crazy idea the we are thinking this?

    Let's set aside the the fact that B.C. and A.D. are not points in time. Any deep significance of these is only applicable if you happen to be Christian.

    Where did you get this idea? The Universe is not currently predicted to have an end of any particular sort, certainly not one as soon as 15 biilion years from now. If you are basing your symmetrical hypothesis on the idea that science has predicted this, then that is game-set and match - hypothesis dead.
    Nonsense. Sorry, but you asked.
     
  18. Imagine2005 Registered Member

    Messages:
    23
    <<Who is we? I don't think so. I don't know anyone, personally, who thinks this. What gave you this crazy idea the we are thinking this?>>

    Once again, I'm reffering to "a" majority of people today who think we are living in the end times due to all that's going on with these disasters, etc. Does that mean it HAS to be someone you know personally?? No, not unless the world revolves around you.
     
  19. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,232
    An opening phrase, such as "Here we are thinking the world is going to end really soon" carries within it by structure, syntax and word usage the clear implication that a very large number of people believe this. Indeed you go on to say "the majority". You are seriously suggesting that a majority of people believe this? Cite your data for this preposterous suggestion.
     
  20. Imagine2005 Registered Member

    Messages:
    23
    Well forgive me if I had misled you in any way with my post, but however, the fact remains that there is much truth that there's a great majority of people out there who think everything's coming to an end soon because of all that's happening right now.
     
  21. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,232
    A majority of people means more than 50%. A great majority implies more than say 75% or 80%. I'll accept the lower figure.
    Please give me references to the studies, polls, whatever, that reveal that more than 50% of the population believe the end is nigh. I say again, this is a preposterous suggestion. I do not believe you have any evidence to support it. I am asking you to produce such evidence: it doesn't even have to be global in scope. Give me these data for a single country.
    You cannot say something like the fact remains, without demonstrating, by citing relevant research, that it is a fact.
    I have no doubt that I have offended you by my direct approach. You have offended me by your loose terminology and preposterous, unsupported suggestion.
    Provide the data proving your case and I shall unreservedly apologise - in every current thread in the forum if you wish.
     
  22. Trilairian Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    581
    No there isn't. The majority isn't even Christian.
     
  23. stretched a junkie's broken promise Valued Senior Member

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    1,244
    Hi Imagine2005:
    "Well forgive me if I had misled you in any way with my post, but however, the fact remains that there is much truth that there's a great majority of people out there who think everything's coming to an end soon because of all that's happening right now."

    * Here is some background to what you are exploring:

    "The Political History of the Jewish Poeple - It is central to the roots of apocalyptic belief; the origins of the Book of Revelation lie in the Jews' wars, defeats and despair."

    * Here`s why you are inquiring:

    "Americas Doom Industry - Examining the significance of Hal Lindsey, the Left Behind series of novels, and the reach of the apocalyptic message in the late 20th century."

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/explanation/

    * The Apocolypse or End Times is a minority view. Its a fun topic though.
     

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