Atheism is a bi-product of THEISM

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Nisus, Sep 13, 2005.

  1. Nisus by peace he shall destroy many Registered Senior Member

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    This should spark some controversy!

    All these self proclaimed athiest individuals who deny the existance of God, yet they rack up 4k + posts and devote their energies to debunking and defaming... something that in their minds doesn't exist. To refute something that doesn't exist isn't profitable at all. If something doesn't exist, isn't that sufficient alone to let it continue in it's own natural state of non-existance?? Yet you are still a slave to the non-existing "God" and your ideas revolve around the fact that someone even believed in Him in the firstplace, so that you could come along and tear it down.

    Atheism is a bi-product of THEISM, DEAL WITH IT, cope.

    ...and if no one ever declare His life, you would no longer have to kick against the pricks.

    Or do you have to use your lives, your time and your efforts energies and ideas to obliterate the idea of GOD? But yet you sit here and defame the name of God, every last calorie of life that your body sustains devoted and commited to tearing down and blaspheming your Creator.

    Seems to me He is more real to you athiests than to most of these people that call themselves "Christians". Being that your fight and struggle in the name of God is so much more heartfelt and time consuming, regardless of the fact you are in opposition, to ... Nothingness?? Or "ideas" sparked up in the neuro-chemical and electric network of thought and concious called the brain.

    If belief in God has no meaning, then the unbelief in God holds hands with belief, and they both share together--a mutual degree of nothingness.

    Chew on that! Ahh yes this is true philosophy.
     
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  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    ooo, how will I ever cope?

    Maybe both Theists and Atheists are both concerned with the same questions of life, the universe and everything. Maybe God doesn't exist as Christians say, but there is something they have discovered that can be described differently, and atheists are building upon theism in order to form some new third idea. Maybe God is more like the Tao, passive and impersonal. Maybe it is impossible to believe in Him, since it is impossible to form any conception of Him. Maybe atheists are combatting a dangerous ideology that robs our minds of the truth. Maybe we debate because we care about your mental well-being.

    Maybe we just like to argue.
     
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  5. Nisus by peace he shall destroy many Registered Senior Member

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    This is gonna be a good discussion!
     
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  7. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Theists and Atheists are both the same problem ...they both believe in something that they can't prove with any scientific evidence, facts or valid reasoning. See? Same thing .....and what's really funny is how they're both usually fervent and adamant in their beliefs.

    Baron Max
     
  8. Nisus by peace he shall destroy many Registered Senior Member

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    I'm sure the Divine can compensate for any misconception. If universes and galxies can be brought into perfect arrays of creation, certainly the same mind that designed these wonders, perceives our base and lowly ability to conceive Him. But it's the thought that counts! Even though the ability to think for oneself can produce alot of variables, to try and believe in, and to imagine God, now that is an adventure in it's own.
     
  9. Nisus by peace he shall destroy many Registered Senior Member

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    Baron! Agnostic?! Yea... I was trying to make my initial post full of fervor~ hoping to stimulate some good thought. It's all in good fun though.

    Double POST
     
  10. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    It can certainly be profitable to refute something that doesn't exist, especially if a lot of people are going around trying to forcibly impose a bunch of nonsensical rules on everyone else in the name of something that's non-existent. If theists just quietly went about their lives believing in god most atheists wouldn't care much. Unfortunately that's not what happens; theists seem driven to try to impose their theistic beliefs on everyone.
     
  11. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

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    WHY? Atheism is a byproduct of theism its true, as we are indoctrinated from birth with the garbage, it's that moment when man realises theism is wrong, and see's the light, and get's his head out of the clouds.
    what do you thing atheism is, it's A(nti)theism, so of course it's a byproduct.

    the rest of your post is therefore irrelevant and invalid.
     
  12. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Atheism isn't a byproduct of theism. It is the notion that no central entity is in control. It would have a different name, but the concept is the same. In fact, Buddhists are atheists, but until the introduction of theism, they didn't think of it in that way. Did you know that Christians are also atheists? At least, according to the Romans that tortured and killed them.

    There is a reactionary element to atheism, but it does not depend on it. They aren't JUST against the Christian God, it only appears that way, because that is the most common manifestation of theism in the west.
     
  13. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Personally, I think only atheists can understand the true metaphysical meaning of God. Theists are too involved and in love with the concept to imagine it in new ways. The belief limits the understanding.
     
  14. Nisus by peace he shall destroy many Registered Senior Member

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    Just blame it all on Abraham! From him stemmed the birth of the 3 biggest Monotheistic movements. Take note of that, in your quest to destroy theism, so you know exactly where to pinpoint your arguments =p.

    Judaism, Christ's Gospel, and Islam come from this lineage. And it affects the way you live your life. (as much as you hate it, you're directly and indirectly affected by people's faith in God, or you wouldn't be on this board/thread at all denouncing them)

    Because of their influence you measure time according to the birth/crucifiction of the Messiah. Remember that everytime you write down the date---Atheists.

    Common ERA....just a polically correct way to say:

    Anno Domini (Latin: "In the Year of the Lord"). This year is AD 2005

    Once again, Athiesm is a bi-product of THEISM. Geeser loves my posts~~~are you athiest?!
     
  15. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Well, then you answered your own question as to why atheists would debate theism. No one is denying the influence it has had on our lives, and the detrimental effects on the environment.

    That's your best response? Weak dude. Many athiests have no wish to destroy theism, they just don't agree with it. Many of my best friends are theists.

    Monotheism predates Abraham. There was Zoroastrianism. And of course, theism in general is much older. What about pantheism? What about Taoism? The issue is greater than God vs. Not God. It is in fact an entire spectrum of philosophical and religious thought that is in question here. What about the trinity, isn't that polytheism? What about pantheism? I think Jesus was a pantheist.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2005
  16. Nisus by peace he shall destroy many Registered Senior Member

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    spidergoat, u don't rep the athiests very well man. You sound like you're just out to form another branch of theism. But wait that's exactly what athiesm is. The counter-results of theism.

    As for Abraham and why I brought him up, here are some numbers for you...

    1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
    2. Islam: 1.3 billion

    The two largest world religions both have Abraham as both a historical figure and spiritual figure. That 3.4 billion ppl. + 14 million of Judaism--- That's half the population of the planet.

    Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million---there Are more jews. This isn't a very influencial monotheistic sect. And the others I don't know how many followers they have because I can't find them. BUT! The whole point of bringing up Abraham was to show you how this figure should be a big part of your understanding, and it's good to understand what you're up against, since half the world adheres to this fashion of monothiesm.

    Even more bold however is this---irrefutable scripture. Read it and weep!

    Gen. 26: 4 This is God--the one you guys are fighting against...saying to Abraham..

    And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

    Half of the earths population is affected by this lineage once again. And this scripture is fulfilled it's what...4 thousand+ years old?

    Four thousand years later, 3.4 billion people descend from a faith given to Abraham of old. That was quite the assertion of God to say that to old abe wasn't it? Your children will grow to be as vast as the stars of the sky?

    I don't think God's work can be manifested more plainly to you.
     
  17. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

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    I don't really understand theists OR atheists. But a valid point atheists have is that they see probably billions of people living in cloud cuckoo land, which isn't easy to take. I am also a little embarressed to be part of the same race of people that spout such garbage.

    Religion rather vaguely has some good points. Imagine a time when we didn't know how life came to be on Earth, and that you looked up into the sky and seen all those points of light. As well as generally looking around and being self-aware. There was no science to explain any of this, and perhaps it is innevitable man started to fabricate explanations in a way they could understand. But this is a silly concept that should be left behind, especially since most of our answers have been through rational thought which is not something religion can boast.

    I don't think it should really matter what you believe, I just think we should blissfully go ahead with our short existence and stop saying this exists in that form or that doesn't exist at all, because we could be wrong either way... and let's have some sense while we do that ok?
     
  18. duendy Registered Senior Member

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    an athiest denies theism. but in doing so usually athiest also denies the real meaning of realigion, which is earth religion and includes psychedelic inspiration........tis means dancing with Nature...flowing with it.....

    why?

    why dance? sing? do stuff that makes no 'sense' like daydreaming. gazing at the sea and clouds etc and jut losing your sense of yourself

    there are degree of this feeling.

    if one ane and really involves oneself then the sense of rytthym can go really deep...ecstaic....same with any creative activity...sport fror example

    from what i have sussed, many literalist religionists are a bit fearful of letting go...and so are many athiests
     
  19. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not up against shit. It's not a war, and you are committing the sin of pride. You shouldn't wonder when people reproduce and their ideas with them increase in popularity. It doesn't concern me in the least. Like a seed multiplying describes most of the life on this planet. Many biblical passages are intended to give a mythological backround to phenomenon they saw all around them.

    Again, repetition instead of refutation. Animals also do not believe in a diety, so obviously, atheism predates any kind of theism. Isn't this fun?
     
  20. Nisus by peace he shall destroy many Registered Senior Member

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    First of all Spider~ calm down man! This isn't aimed specifically at you. Nor anyone. You've actually inspired me to think of those things I said and I am glad that you have shared your mind. Else I never would have thought of Abraham and the populations/world religions.

    I'm just stating facts. The fact that those words were written, long before either of us were born into this planet. And that they were fulfilled. In the name of God, and in the name of monotheism. Find me one source that can refute that.... you can't refute that. You can brush it off, say what you want but the fact still remains those words were spoken and written, as well as fulfilled.

    Abraham was a semetic nomad--who would know that from this old man 4 millenia later, half the world would recognize him as a religious figure of such great porportion? None save God alone could predict that Abraham's children would fill the "Nations" and bless the earth. Back then people traveled in nomadic tribes and most were pagan/polytheistic. There were hardly any nations.

    Those words are divine.
     
  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    In the passage from Genesis you mentioned, God was saying to Isaac that due to a famine (and an oath God swore to Abraham, (presumably to watch his back)), he should not settle in Egypt, but rather go to the land I show you and you will multiply. So they went to Gerar (located in the Western Negev, about nine miles southeast of Gaza and fifteen miles northwest of Beersheba, Israel), where they found wells and springs and grew some crops and were prosperous. You can tell this passage deals with historical events and not a grand mystical prophecy because it goes on to talk about Isaac's rather mundane affairs.

    It doesn't say anything about Abraham's theology multiplying all over the Earth.

    In fact this passage may be of more relevence to me than you, since I am a descendant of these early Jews. Some of my relatives are still in the area mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2005
  22. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    This is a great example of theists taking a passage out of context and inventing grand explanations. Muslims are especially fantastic at this. If abrahamic religions are all inspired by God, why are they all different? ...and why do the followers all fight and kill one another? The middle east should be a paradise by now...
     
  23. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    According to your silly logic, no one should ever try to refute anything. Either something exists, in which case you shouldn't try to refute it because you would be wrong - or it doesn't exist, in which case (according to you) refuting it "wouldn't be profitable." So tell us, when do you think that one should try to refute something?
    In the same way that your lack of belief in flying pink unicorns is a byproduct of flying pink unicorns, I suppose that's true.
    This is a massive overstatement. Most atheists debate about theology on message board like these as a recreational activity. Many people enjoy debate - that's why they have debate clubs in high schools. If they weren't arguing about the existence of god, most of the atheists here would be happily arguing about something else. Religion is only such a popular topic for debate because it's easy to find a lot of people with passionate views on the subject that are willing to argue.
     

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