Believing in but not loving Him

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Samaritan, Sep 13, 2005.

  1. Samaritan Registered Member

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    Choosing to acknowledge God but deciding not to follow or love him? Can you believe in God, and just not like the guy, does that automatically make you a devil like Lucifer or is that because of envy and pride?
    Do devoted God fearing and loving christians hate this kind of attitude more than atheism? Do any christians believe it is possible to not care(like a stranger or father who was never there) God not out of evil but just because we dont agree with his ways. I dont hate God, I wonder sometimes if you can respect him, but then sometimes you look at the world and you dont and you feel bad that you cant experience that love and you just be happy(even if it means ignorance is bliss).
    Is false love better than no love at all? If you just wake some mornings and you feel nothing for God, why should you kid yourself that you love him. I just dont see the idea that if it was not perfect love in the beginning how will it end in perfect love.
    One more, do many christians feel that their lost in the world? I mean lets say you do know God loves you nad that youre going to heaven, are you still gonna just sit around and wait till your days end and do someone elses work, dont you feel a need to become or achieve something more than someone that always says "With Gods help Im gonna achieve this." "God will have use of you when He chooses." Or "God just didnt want you to make it this time." If God helps us overcome every obstacles we meet, does that mean humanity cant achieve anything on its own? What does it then mean to have courage, spirit, endurance, or force?
    I just want to be able to look at myself in the mirror and respect and like hat I see,not worry about going to hell, heaven or being something Im not.(Im not denying the path out of evil, just I want to be me, not what God might want me to be.). Is sleeping forever really that bad, is acccepting life and knowing your fighting to survive in it bad?
    The worst thing in the world is not knowing your place in the world. Being Gods child is just not enough I want to grow up, cant you just be friends with God? not fearing not loving just someone to talk to. Does anyone have any answers?
     
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  3. water the sea Registered Senior Member

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    Please don't take this as an affront, but I think that right now, you should deal with some other things in your life. Like self-esteem, resilience, even anger management.

    And come to discuss religion once you are in a calmer and more centred state of mind. Because right now, it is just going to make you (even more) frustrated and depressed.
     
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  5. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

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    so in your opinion water a person who is using his/her critical mind probably for the first time, should go away and shut the fuck up, where you see anger I see discernment.

    Samaritan the love the religious have for a god, is not love in the real sense, you can not love that which you fear.
    you said so yourself devoted god fearing, a loving father does not kill it's children.

    so do respect yourself your the one with all the cards, if you wish to follow a god thats your perogative.

    for me I have no fear of a god, hell or death.
    and my life is great.
     
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  7. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    No. That just indicates that you do not have enough knowledge of God. You are trapped between a rock and a hard place. Because you know a God exists and you have some knowledge about who God is but you do not have a clear enough picture of Him to Love and respect Him.


    I believe in God but i do not fear Him i am in awe of Him and so happy that He is a God of loving-kindness.



    Many are trapped in that state of fear. But that fear never lasts if one disagrees with the will of God then eventually they will no longer believe He exists. The thing you must do before then is to cast away all your former views on God and just ask Him to revel Himself to you and read the Word of Jesus.


    It seems you do hate God if you cannot respect Him. If you think God is unjust or unfair then you will not respect Him how can one not hate what they believe is unfair and unjust? Ignorance is only bliss for the ignorant people who have knowledge cannot seek ignorance they must seek until their knowledge is satisfied.



    False love does not exist. There is no point lying and saying that one loves God when they don't how can anyone fool Someone who knows all the inner thoughts of all men?

    I feel no love for the way the world is now. This world is a vain place full of corruption and pain. I feel like a stranger in this world, like being in the matrix and being aware that i am in the matrix. I am not lost i am happy to be used by God in any way He wills to help anyone who is open to God to come to Him. Whatever happens in this life i know i have eternity with Him so i do not care if i make a million dollars or end up starving to death. People who see God as a fairy with a magic wand who will grant all their worldly wishes and protect them from all harm in this world have got a twisted view of God. God does not protect me from this world God gives me the strength to face this world.


    One has to be sure that they are a child of God before they can say it is not enough. From what i have read of your post it seems you do not know Him enough to be called His child. So yes just try talking with God and ask Him to remove your false ideas about God. Just ask Him to help you come to the knowledge of Him that pleases Him for you to have.

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    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  8. Samaritan Registered Member

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    I take it water and adstar are christians. When talking about self-esteem wouldnt you say god is cruch, and why would you walk around with one when you dont need it. Why should I wallow in my pity shouldnt I break free, atleast explain to me what Gods plan is so I can sit down, shut up, and accept that what God is doing is reasonable. There was a guy here who posted called SouthStar, I always thought he was full of shit, now I understand him.
     
  9. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    God is a belief based upon those people who want to follow something they think will help them through their lives. There's many people around this planet that don't believe in God but believe in other things that help them get through their day. It is nice to say, God did this or that or that the devil must have done this or that, but when it comes right down to it we do everything or nature does everything.

    If you want to believe in something why not believe in yourself?
     
  10. water the sea Registered Senior Member

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    6,442
    I'm not telling Samaritan to "go away and shut the fuck up".
    I am suggesting that religious matters demand a serious and calm mind, or they become very frustrating.
     
  11. water the sea Registered Senior Member

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    6,442
    I am not a Christian.

    Some people indeed use religion as a crutch and I don't think this is a healthy approach to religion.
    Religion or spirituality is not psychotherapy.
    Psychoteraphy is not religion/spirituality.
    The two should not be confused.

    That you ask "Why should I wallow in my pity shouldnt I break free" tells me that you are in some turmoil, but this turmoil does not have something to do with God.

    "... atleast explain to me what Gods plan is so I can sit down, shut up, and accept that what God is doing is reasonable"
    -- are just looking for a quick fix of the problem?

    There are essentially two ways of approaching religion:
    1. Blindly accept whatever anyone tells you, or what those you choose to believe tell you.
    2. Study up on theology etc. yourself.

    Option 1 seems absurd because of its mindlessness and simiplicity, option 2 seems absurd because of the amount of matter you'd have to study up on.

    Nobody wants you to sit down and shut up. I would like you to be happy. But I can tell you that as you are now, you won't find happiness in religion.
     
  12. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Some Gnostics thought that the God of Israel was an inferior God, who thought he was the only one, but his mother was upset by his pride and left for a higher plane. He was responsible for making the physical world, but was not worthy of worship.
     
  13. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    3,782
    Water is not a Christian. but water believes in the God of Abraham. (i think?)

    I am a follower of the Messiah Jesus.

    Let me think about this our loud. If God was a crutch in relation to self esteem then all those that believe in God would have this crutch of self esteem, right? so all Christians would have very high self esteems yes?

    I believe in God but i do not have an elevated sense of self worth neither do i consider myself worthless. So what goes here?

    Why do you think God has anything to do with self esteem?



    What is causing you to have self pity? please expand on this so i can adequitly address it. When i came to believe in Jesus i never got trapped into a cycle of self pity. I would like to understand where your self pity is coming from?



    God at this time is waiting for all those whom will accept Jesus as Messiah and have eternity with Him. I do not know the number or how much longer history must continue as it is, before this comes about. God is seeking people who will follow Him out of love rather than fear. God is seeking ones who agree with His will.


    southstar chose to reject Jesus as Messiah and fell away from the truth ,many people do that. And you have your free will to do likewise, But this is the most important decision you will ever make in your entire existence. So don't make it lightly. Before you reject Jesus as Messiah make every effort to know what it really is that you are rejecting. Because often people reject jesus without ever really knowing Jesus.

    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  14. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

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    I think we should let southstar, say how he changed his mind not you.
    as I dont think he rejected anything.
    many people dont reject jesus, many people see the fallacy in religion and god/jesus, thus cease to believe, in the fantasy.
    it is'nt rejection, you cant reject that which you know does'nt exist, thats lunacy.
    why, he will just be waking up.
    more important decisions, will come about.( IE who will I love, where will I live, etc.. no deity is required in life, just live and enjoy and do the right thing, in regard to others)
     
  15. Samaritan Registered Member

    Messages:
    19
    See I agree to an extent of this, I could agree that you can reject that which doesn't exist but something tells me that is wrong. However I do agree with the fallacy of religion. We were created in his image but it just doesnt seem like we are considered children. I am studying to become a priest, but in later time I dont see the difference in those that believe and those that dont. Its seems nice to have someone backing you up 100 percent but why does it feel like just for laughter He will leave me out to hang. Ive tried justifying that God is everywhere like nature so advanced that thats why we wont ever comprehend him or that which is life. I got shot down as it was labeled to New Age. I mean people come to me for answers and all I can show them are acts of men who label their work "God really did this" but I think they take credit away from themselves.
    Dont you ever feel that you dont need a heaven, a perfect paradise to spend eternal life, just be able to respect yourself, do the right thing and do as much as you can because thats what a human being has brought themselves up to do not because God created us in his image.
     
  16. Samaritan Registered Member

    Messages:
    19
    I guess im looking for like minded, and it wasnt there with God, but when I talk about it so many answer "How can it not be possible to love God or feel Gods love". The first thing I found out when I started studying was that almost no one knew their bible. They sang their songs, had their psalms, praised Jesus but almost no one knew who Joshua was or what Paul was doing in Korinth. This is another point though but would as many christians be christians if their parents were also or that instead of accepting some light read and study what that light is because Im sorry to say this it might not be bad but not what it claims to be, and starting out lying is never anything all perfect.
     
  17. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    3,782
    Samaritan

    You say you are studying to be a priest? then i must conclude that you are a catholic? you also say that many around you do not know the bible once again a very common catholic state of being.

    I was once a catholic i too did not read the bible it did not matter because all i had to do was follow the churches teachings. I thank God i read the New King James Bible and became a Christian.

    I hope you do read a good (non-catholic) bible before you slam the door on Jesus and pray for God to reveal Himself to you. Not a repetitious formal prayer like the heathens use, thinking that they will be heard by their many words. But a prayer in your own words from you own heart.

    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  18. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

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    1,305

    Samaritan
    : I feel for you, even though I'm now an atheist, like most atheist and agnostics, we were all brought up with a believe in the bible, god, and jesus, when like you, we got to that stage, and started questioning the bible, god and the teachings of jesus. I can say that most if not all atheists, seriously studied the bible, and some also, like me the quran, and the vedas, book of mormon. it was this study the brought us to where we are today, it not easy to go against all that you've been told, but you do.
    however we are still surprised by how little of the bible/quran, the majority of the religious know, and how shocked they become, when you quote scripture that contradicts theres.
    now I live a peaceful life, I harm no one atheism makes you like that, you respect life more. anything I do, I'm the one to blame, if it go's wrong, I'm my own boss, I do the thinking for me.( I know that sounds a little stupid, when you this side of the religious spectrum, you view the other side as being controlled by an imaginary entity, well imaginary to reality.
    hence why we ask for evidence of it's existence.)
    only you can make the decisions for you, studing the bible more and other religious books will only make matters worse, if you want to keep your faith dont read on.
     
  19. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    5,758
    So uhh.. something that isn't in the bible? As a result of that I can only ask why you're giving catholics such a hard time while then acting in exactly the same manner?
     
  20. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,779
    Can't resist-
    Ignorance was never meant to be bliss, this phrase is as commonly misquoted as the Bible is.
    You're missing a 'where'.
    Thomas Gray writes in "On a Distant Prospect of Eaton College"

    "Since sorrow never comes too late,
    And happiness too swiftly flies.
    Thought would destroy their paradise.
    No more; where ignorance is bliss,
    'Tis folly to be wise."

    http://www.web-books.com/Classics/Poetry/Anthology/Gray_T/OdeOnDistance.htm

    In other words, you're shooting yourself in the foot to claim wisdom where folly is praised.
    Not that folly or ignornace is praiseworthy in themselves.

    Sure it does.

    We falsely love all the time.
    It keeps all kinds of marriages, engagements, alliances, friendships in denial.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2005
  21. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    3,782
    What i say does not go against the Word of God in fact it is in agreement with the spirit of the Word.

    The catholic prayer like the hail mary said in sections of 10 repetitions called a decad of the rosary is both contrary to the words of Jesus being a repetitious prayer and also blasphemous because it is a prayer to another human being.

    And i do not give catholics a "hard time" I warn them that they are not right with the will of God, that they are doing things against the teachings of Jesus. That’s not giving them a "hard time" That’s giving them warning that they are not following Jesus, but they are following a twisted tradition, a mockery of Christ.

    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  22. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

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    but adstar it's your idea of a twisted tradition, of a mockery of Christ, not theirs.
    and whats to say your right, or the 34,000 other different sects of christianity.
     
  23. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

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    Be who you are

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    You can rest in your faith, don't struggle all the time. When you see the world and it seems depressing, then you may need to calm yourself and say to yourself that "there must be something better, something greater than this". You don't need to define this "greater" or "better" just entertain the thought, we love God because God loved us first, God is love. Don't worry, don't be afraid. Try to do good things at your pace, no one has asked you to change the world on your own. If you still feel depressed then pray to God, it doesn't really matter what you say in your prayer; read this passage:

    Romans 8:
    22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

    26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.
     

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