Evolution In Reverse?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by J.B, Jul 20, 2005.

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  1. J.B Banned Banned

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    Incorporating Ebonics into a new school policy that targets black students, the lowest-achieving group in the San Bernardino City Unified School District, may provide students a more well-rounded curriculum, said a local sociologist.

    Ebonics in the program would be beneficial for students. Ebonics, a dialect of American English that is spoken by many blacks throughout the country, was recognized as a separate language in 1996 by the Oakland school board.

    "Ebonics is a different language, it's not slang as many believe,' Texeira said. "For many of these students Ebonics is their language, and it should be considered a foreign language. These students should be taught like other students who speak a foreign language.'
    http://www.sbsun.com/Stories/0,1413,208~12588~2969790,00.html
     
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  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Blacks do have a distinct dialect, and recognizing that it is not just "bad english" will help them learn to speak mainstream English better. What's your problem? Did a black dude rape your mother or something? Don't you have any black friends? I have, and believe it or not, they are real human beings, with all the capability, intelligence, creativity, bravery and good qualities that are seen in humans everywhere.
     
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  5. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    How?

    And I'd also ask, even if they learn this "eubonics", how does that help them integrat into modern society? Does IBM and Ford Motor Company and other such corporations use "eubonics" in their legal documents and in their meetings with top-level managers?

    Yeah, and they all speak English! And they, also, think "eubonics" is a horrible, political concession to the lazy, ghetto blacks who aren't willing or able to learn English!!!! ...read about Bill Cosby's ideas along those lines and you'll see what my black friends think about the lazy-assed, ghetto blacks!

    Baron Max
     
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  7. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Regarding the title of this thread, there's no such thing as reverse evolution. Even in a hypothetical or even science fiction sort of setting, so long as one properly understand evolution there can be no such thing as "reverse" evolution, it's a contradiction of terms. There can be no reverse evolution, only evolution in directions which we perhaps do not appreciate. Unless we suddenly find a way to travel back in time, evolution can’t go backwards.
     
  8. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, but we all (except for you!) know exactly what he was meaning by that term.

    Baron Max
     
  9. glaucon tending tangentially Registered Senior Member

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    Nope... I also didn't understand what J.B said. The correct choice of word would have been 'devolution'.
     
  10. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    You, too, huh? Neither of you noticed the question mark behind the title? Do you know what a question mark signifies?

    Baron Max
     
  11. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Clearly your reading comprehension skills are a bit rusty, old man. The question was to whether or not this acceptance of Ebonics was "evolution in reverse" not whether "evolution in reverse" is a valid term or concept.
     
  12. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    Ebonics, from the root word ebony... which means black. Man, if you don't know that much about linguistics what the hell do you think you are doing saying that teaching classes in a different dialect is just promoting "bad English"?
     
  13. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    Incidentally, I'm thinking of a nation who's occupants are snooty about their national language and have a national institution which rules on things like what good and bad examples of their native language are. Who are these prudish linguaphiles? The FRENCH! The French sure did hate dialectical differences, still do in fact! You don't want to be like the French, do you Max? Old Frenchy Max, that’s what they'll call you, you know.

    "I hear he doesn’t bathe and he eats exotic cheeses, and he let the Nazi's slip into his country through Belgium."

    That's what they'll say about you, Max.
     
  14. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Whether or not “ebonics” is a dialect or just “bad English” is irrelevant. The kids need to be taught proper, standard English for their own benefit and for the good of the nation. This same argument applies to kids who speak only Spanish (like my grandparents when they first arrived in the US). One of the strengths of America is that we have this huge land area unified by language, currency, and system of government. People from all over the world can and do come to this country and find great success, but to do this one must be able to communicate with ones countrymen. The last thing a kid needs is to be coddled and told his manner of speech is just fine throughout his school career, only to find himself unemployable anywhere but McDonald’s upon graduation. This policy will lead to the further Balkanization of our nation and act to perpetuate a black underclass.
     
  15. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    While your statement about there not being reverse evolution is correct, the understanding of evolution among the general population includes the idea of constant improvement. When someone says, "This is the next step in the evolution of the personal computer." The implication is that this is a positive change. It's disingenuous of you to imply that you are unaware of this usage. Please note that this thread is in the philosophy section, not the biology section. So the colloquial usage should be acceptable
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2005
  16. J.B Banned Banned

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    I believe that as blacks gain more and more "freedom" they will revert back to the primitive ways that are natural to them.
     
  17. J.B Banned Banned

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    Todays news:

    A Lexington County teenager has been sentenced to ten years in prison after admitting to stabbing his adoptive mother to death.

    Sixteen-year-old Hugo Clayton pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter on Monday. Debra Clayton was stabbed in her home in Red Bank in 2003. Investigators say the knife was found under the boy's bed.

    The boy was adopted from Guatemala.

    Prosecutor Dayton Riddle says the boy killed his mother after being required to speak only English on the day of her death.
    http://www.wltx.com/news/news19.aspx?storyid=29025
     
  18. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Incorporating a basic respect for how African-americans speak among themselves is not teaching them slang. The whole subject isn't about teaching "ebonics". No one is teaching them to talk that way, and no one ever will.

    By the way, it has been my experience that language among blacks is much richer and more spontaneous in creativity than among whites.
     
  19. J.B Banned Banned

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    Ebonics (A contraction of EBOny-PhoNICS) describes the dialect or pidjin spoken by inner city residents in the U.S. This pidjin is also called Black English. Pidjins evolve when English is mixed with a native tongue and are characterized by a simpler grammar and a reduced vocabulary. These features typically make the pidjin an efficient cross cultural communication medium and very easy to learn.

    More accurately, Ebonics refers to the teaching of Black English in the public schools. The Ebonics movement in Oakland, California was an effort to obtain official recognition of this dialect and to sanction its teaching.
    http://victorian.fortunecity.com/vangogh/555/Spell/ebonics.htm
    Are you saying one race of people is better then another at something?
     
  20. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I think the richness of black language is a cultural thing, I doubt it has anything to do with race except indirectly. They have always had to be circumspect when speaking about certain issues around white people, so they had to invent slang and codewords. Not all of their African heritage was wiped out, and oral history is what they depended on instead of the written word.

    I would agree with you that teaching Ebonics is silly, but acknowledging that English is a living language, and different cultures speak differently is OK.
     
  21. J.B Banned Banned

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    (1) Some sample sentences in AAVE/Ebonics, with discussion of the ways in which they show the systematicity of AAVE:

    1.AAVE: "She BIN had dat han'-made dress" (SE: She's had that hand-made dress for a long time, and still does.)

    2.AAVE: "Befo' you know it, he be done aced de tesses." (SE Before you know it, he will have already aced the tests.)

    3.AAVE: "Ah 'on know what homey be doin." (SE: I don't know what my friend is usually doing.)

    4.AAVE: "Can't nobody tink de way he do." (SE: Nobody can think the way he does.)

    5.AAVE: "I ast Ruf could she bring it ovah to Tom crib." (SE: I asked Ruth if/whether she could bring it over to Tom's place.)

    Blacks unintelligent way of speaking is just one more example of there over all lack of intelligence. Blacks don't speak "ebonics" because they want to, they speak that way because thats the best they can do.
     
  22. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    This has nothing to do with philosophy or evolution. Blacks use language effectively to convey meaning, this alone is a huge evolutionary step. Language itself evolved in Africa.

    You are a [expletive deleted] that likes to insult blacks because it makes you feel better about your pathetic self.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2005
  23. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for the pic, J.B, I have to say, you look a little scary:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    When did you get paroled? Or do they have the internet in prison?
     
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