Is there such a thing as an "Anti-Atheist?"

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by SkinWalker, Jun 13, 2005.

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  1. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    It is utterly fascinating the reactions and responses that some theists give to the concept of atheism and to atheists in particular. Most theist appear to take the attitude that atheists are afflicted with something and many have a revulsion toward atheists. Atheists often are faced with discrimination:

    http://www.nbc5.com/news/4538008/detail.html?z=dp&dpswid=2265994&dppid=65193
    http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/pat_quotes/atheist_fired.htm
    http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm
    etc.

    But atheists have even faced severe harassment and ridicule from theistic people in response to learning of their atheism or of their opposition to public display of religious belief at the expense of taxpayers:
    One has to wonder what motivates these believers (I think it's safe to assume "Christians") who ridicule, harass, insult, and even assault atheists. And, indeed, we've seen some of the same behavior here in this very forum, for instance in the "I Hate Christians" thread.

    That's not to say that the believers don't receive their fair share of "bashing." It is completely understanding why a believer of any supernatural force, be it UFOs, god, Zeus, Quetzalcoatl, Osiris, or ESP would find it offending when those skeptical of their beliefs criticize them. It is even going a bit too far when the skeptics, including myself, suggest delusion to explain their beliefs –but this is truly what the skeptics of religion perceive: that theists are deluded. But the definition of "delusion" is "anything that deceives the mind with a false impression; a deception; a fixed false opinion or belief with regard to objective things, esp. as a form of mental derangement (OED 1989)."

    However, it goes far and beyond simply creating an offense of casual association, as with the criticisms of one's belief, when directing unfounded and direct insults to the character of the atheist in the form of ad hominem remarks that some anti-atheists (or, as one sciforums member describes himself, "antiatheistites") resort to.

    Such forum members might be a minority among the theistic believers in this and other forums, but I suggest that these people have a purpose and an agenda. They appear to seek to discourage intellectual discussion and debate regarding atheism as it compares and contrasts to theism, especially Christianity. And this appears to be their motivation in behaving in the manner that they do. What isn't apparent, however, is the motivation behind their desire to sabotage a discussion that includes serious comparisons between theism and atheism.

    To that, we can only speculate. Perhaps there is a fear, either recognized or unrecognized, of the atheist position and atheists in general; perhaps they were offended by an atheist at some point to the degree that they cannot forgive, much less forget; perhaps they believe it to be the will of their god(s); perhaps they consider this behavior justified in their "crusades against atheism" in much the same way the bomber believes he/she is justified to blow up abortion clinics in that crusade; and so on.

    One sciforums member, in the "I Hate Christians" thread asserted that all of the atheists in the thread were "self-righteous, fanatical, imposing, etc." When this point is argued, the response is direct, harsh and rude insults that go well beyond dealing with the issue of atheism and are clearly meant to attack the individual on a very personal level.

    Why?

    Why resort to that level of attack? In looking at the "I Hate Christians" thread, it's clear that in fourteen pages, there are, perhaps, only three or four pages of substance when the silly banter, "flames," "trolling" remarks, and responses to these are removed. The overall effect was to discourage posting in the thread and to mask the serious posts with unrelated diatribe.

    In a society that in which being publicly atheist can cause you to lose a job, be inundated with obscene phone calls from Christians, or even physically attacked by them, discussion forums like this are wonderful places to speak out and explore your beliefs and the beliefs of others with certain anonymity. But even here, there are those that would seek to disrupt that since it runs counter to their own beliefs and worldviews.

    What encounters or evidence do others see of "anti-atheism" either on the internet or in society?

    Do theists (i.e. Christians) receive unfair amounts of "bashing" or are atheists who are publicly critical merely offering a fair counter-position to the publicly open nature of Christianity?

    If Christianity is open and vocal in public forum and it's worldviews well-represented, shouldn't it be fair that atheists and humanists likewise make their worldviews known?

    I'm not interested in creating a thread that explores whether atheism or theism is more tenable (i.e. an atheism vs. theism debate), but rather a discussion on the extent to which these two positions go to counter each other and if one or both go to far.
     
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  3. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

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    When I tell my Mom, who is Christian still, that I am now an atheist, she says flippantly, "Oh no your not, your just being silly," or "Don't be silly, you're just depressed," as if the whole idea is totally absurd. Well, maybe she's right about the depression, but, in my opinion, most of my depression stems from conflicts I have with regards to my Christian upbringing. Nonetheless, deep down, I think a lot of us just want others to support us and confirm our own beliefs, so it's easy to get upset when they don't. Human-nature, nothing else. Take everything with a grain of salt, as the saying goes. Unless they assault you, then beat the fucking shit out of them!
     
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  5. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Good thread skinwalker - well said.
     
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  7. Lawdog Digging up old bones Registered Senior Member

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    I think anti-atheism is an important problem.
    Christians cannot bash atheists or make them feel stupid.
    All of them have enough mental equiptment
    to come to full knowledge of God.
    We need to respect their rights, and give them lots
    of time to think about the harm they are doing
    to themselves and others, and the fires that await them.
    Hell IS a scare tactic, lets be honest, and its also real.
    Dont make atheists more angry by constantly quoting
    scripture. Just warn them about Death, Judgement and
    Heaven or Hell.
     
  8. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Christians cannot bash atheists or make them feel stupid.

    The latter is a certainty.

    All of them have enough mental equiptment
    to come to full knowledge of God.


    We can imagine gods, as you do.

    We need to respect their rights, and give them lots
    of time to think about the harm they are doing
    to themselves and others


    We do no harm to ourselves or others. Our outlook and mindset are to humanity, not imaginary gods.

    If you wish to talk about doing harm to others, check out the Crusades, Inquisition, etc.

    Just warn them about Death, Judgement and
    Heaven or Hell.


    And you will continue to look foolish.
     
  9. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    1,350
    wish I could say the same for xians.

    our knowledge of God as defined by the bible makes him practicaly nonexistent and imposible to exist

    click here
    you gotta be joking....what harm exactly do atheists do to the religious believers.

    on the contrary its religions with their superstitious nonsence and invented fantasy stories about creation which they would like to teach as the "absolute truth" in schools,who is making kids stupid and preventing evolution and advancement of human mind.

    click
    yeah as real as a Santa clause, Tooth fairy or thousands of those other
    gods
    www.godchecker.com
    angry??..you simpletons bore me to tears
    death is the End so get used to it and enjoy living,
     
  10. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    What gets me is that you'll see bible-thumpers like this passing out bibles on the sidewalks adjacent to public schools and universities. This pic is of a Hillcrest High School in Dallas (9/04) just before the last bell:

    <img src="http://www.sciforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4191&stc=1">

    If, however, an atheist or humanist organization were to stand in the same location, passing out literature on humanism, does anyone doubt that there would be confrontation? Protest? Even violence?

    As an interesting side note, a lot of the kids reached out and took the little green New Testaments these old white guys were handing out, but it seemed that as soon as they realized what they were they promptly dropped them in the street. The guy in the picture appeared to notice this right after I took the picture and tried to pick them up.
     
  11. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    5,874
    This is an interesting response to atheism and consistent with "anti-atheist" attitude.

    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=816485&highlight=Antiatheistite#post816485

    The author of the post compares atheists to "microbial insects" and "animal manure," and states that atheists have no rights to morality, justice or recognition. The reason, he/she suggests is that atheists are not even "on par with plants" when it comes to the intrinsic value of life.

    This ignorant person gives no supporting data, but merely rants his/her own belief system, undoubtedly indoctrinated over many years as a child growing up in a cult-minded family setting.

    Never mind the scores of atheists who have done much good in this world: Sagan, Lincoln, Hemmingway, Einstein, Mark Twain, Gene Roddenberry, Susan B. Anthony, Aldous Huxley, etc., etc. But all people whom we can attribute greatness to as well as having contributed much to American culture.

    It is more the goal of the "anti-atheist," I think to quiet the atheist, lest the atheist should inspire theists to think.
     
  12. Darkman Registered Senior Member

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    87
    Judging by the thread below I'd say "Yes".
     
  13. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    5,758
    A great post Skinwalker. I have noticed a tendency on this forum, (especially recently), from theists to really misunderstand what an atheist is, and indeed go to great lengths to slander and insult anyone who considers themselves as such. The behaviour seen here really does question that 'moral superiority' the majority of theists believe they have, and really does bring to light the sheer level of hypocricy that seems to have spread itself among them like a plague.

    As an interesting endeavour, (should you happen to see the man handing out bibles again): Stand next to him with a box labelled "atheists guide to a decent life", or some variant thereof and get a friend to video tape the ensuing violence, (both physical and verbal), that would be inflicted upon you.

    There was recently a cardboard religious leaflet holder stuck on one of the walls local to me saying something about finding god etc. Next to it I stuck a homemade one about finding leprechauns. Wish I had have filmed the religious ones cursing and the non religious laughing.. Oh well, it's probably a sin to have a sense of humour.

    The thing I find is a major factor of course is that in many ways religion promotes the non-right to do as you please. I have heard verbal slanderings about pretty much anything you could imagine, from pokemon to cigarettes, womens rights, gay rights, childrens rights, and so on and so forth. It is basically a collection of people trying to find the fastest possible way of making an enemy out of everyone else. Nothing in this world breeds intolerance like religion has and does.

    This above anything else shows that they consider themselves better than anyone else. If they can't find an atheist to pick on they'll happily start on another sect of their own belief system. It's weird that the followers of a man who said: "love thy neighbour", actually hate more than anyone else.

    You do not need to look any further than this forum to see the disgusting level of hatred that is shown to non believers: Woody, Cool Skill, Johnahmed to name just a few of those who not only spread their intolerance whenever they get a chance, but happily ignore the teachings of jesus just so they can show how much they truly hate others. I am shocked that a man who is mentioned so much is actually ignored so completely.

    I remember reading in the news about some nuns who went to help give support after the tsunami disaster, but refused to give aid unless the survivors converted to christianity. That really did speak volumes about the way christianity is in general.

    Still, they can be whoever they want to be, believe in whatever they want to, and hate the rest of us as much as they want to. It's called 'human rights'. Would have been nice if god taught them a bit about that.
     
  14. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Most theists are unable to comprehend or even imagine a life without their gods, hence they cannot understand the mindset of an atheist or agnostic, making it difficult, if not impossible for them to assume that point of view even for the sake of argument.

    That is why I think it's important to listen to those who were brought up indoctrinated in a religion, began questioning the basis of the religion and eventually rejecting it altogether as mere fantasy.

    They are truly the 'enlightened' ones.
     
  15. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Skin,

    It is fascinating and it makes sense. Theists value the religious-fulfillment of many psychological needs and the identity that 'God' gives them. They value it more than truth... and rightfully so because there is alot of pleasure and satisfaction involved.

    Atheism is hard for the Theist to process because it challenges their values and identity. Many Atheists incorrectly assume that everyone should value truth above their psychological needs & identities.
     
  16. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    8,213
    this whole thread is some self righteous tripe.

    if you dont like the way discussions are handled, perhaps you should hand out infractions, and enforce rules in an even handed manner.

    a religion forum populated by 3 atheist mods, with 1 of the mods posting "we are right, you are wrong" kind of things is inappropriate. i am not christian, and i dont read the religion subforum often, but whenever i do, i see the exact opposite of what you have described, skinwalker.

    the division comes from atheists attempting to make anyone who is religious look like an idiot. its a shame that you people cant have a congenial conversation with eachother because of this.

    but then again..its about "you are right, and i am wrong", isnt it?

    edit: (watches skinwalker hand an infraction to me for calling him out on his ideology)
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2007
  17. Free_Matt_417 The CIA took my baby away Registered Senior Member

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    337
    It confuses me when religious people try and tell me I'll going to hell for not believing. Maybe they don't understand that, because i don't believe in God or heaven, therefore i cannot believe in Hell or Satan. It really shits me to tears.

    You can't have one without the other.
     
  18. wsionynw Master Queef Valued Senior Member

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    Lawdog, please back this up with evidence, otherwise it will look like another fatuous statement.
     
  19. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    This is an interesting thread Skinwalker and I feel I have something pertinent to add:
    I too think there is an agenda by fundamentalists to disrupt the normal functioning and progression of the scientific method through communication in this forum and other media. I consider that this is due to a subconscious insecurity on the part of fundamentalists i.e. the logic being if they can prove opposing viewpoints as false then their ideology must be correct.
    The only solution to this is to practice good science and engage in debate without resorting to 'scientific McCarthyism' which is no doubt a debate best held within fundamentalist circles.
    I feel strongly about this as when in university I was threatened with crucifixion by a Nigerian Jehovaha Witness...and Nigerian Christians have some reputation here.
     
  20. Ayodhya Registered Senior Member

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    391
    SkinWalker -

    A couple questions:
    1) In the Caro, Michigan case, was the atheist involved, harassed (in any and all forms) before he/she complained about the nativity scene and while she held the "Christian atrocity" museum?

    If she didn't, then the Christians were tolerating the museum, and she should tolerate the nativity scene. The court shouldn't have abused her, but seriously - a it's just a nativity scene? What the hell? It seems that she's being intolerant.
     
  21. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    At school (age of 8) we were visited by the Gideons (the people who leave bibles in hotel rooms). Our attendance was compulsory and our parents were not given prior warning. Individually and in front of the whole assembly we were each given a bible and told to promise that we would read it every day. One boy refused to promise to read the bible and said he didn't want one...he said he didn't believe in god. There was some argument amongst the adults present and the boy was escorted from the assembly leaving the impression that he had done something very bad.

    This still continues in a subtler form.
     
  22. The Evelyonian Registered Senior Member

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    ~*DELETED*~

    EDIT: Sorry, Didn't realize this topic was posted some time ago
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2007
  23. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    Brainwashing children is wrong. Full stop.
     
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