Interesting UFO Video

[duendy]

the issue dear phlo is i dont on a computer with enough memory in order to show video clips etc etc....it is a digital set-top box which connectsto TV. yes i ca access certin pages of wwweb including some forums like here, but not what you can do--se vids. soz

back to te subject. i am questioning your writing ALL DOCUMENTED CASES of UFO sightigs from eye-witnesses, including wth photos and video, and contact since ?...what an assertion!

where is your proof it is "ALL" false? you must have vast amounts of data refuting, scientifically, ALL of THAT lot.............where is it?

[phlogistician]

The evidence refuting alien visitation is current physics dear boy. You know, the need for near light speed travel, to make it possible? But, despite having conquered the immense technological difficulties in acheiving this, aliens somehow haven't got stealth capability, or a drug like rohypnol to knock out humans while they are anally probed.

Current physics shows us the enormity of the problem that is travelling between stars. Blurry video does not solve this problem!

[duendy]

The evidence refuting alien visitation is current physics dear boy.

dear boy: actually there are different interpreatations in current physics sir. maybe you choose the one that auits your worldview?
Alos, may i add....you seem to havemissed some of my recent posts regarding UFOs. I pointed out this: tat if you insist ALL UFOs must habve a;lien origin, then you blockout any investigation into the hyppthesis theymay be connected to HUMAN secret technology! do you see whati mean? your presupposition limits your scope of inquiry. surely not a wise scientific approach.

You know, the need for near light speed travel, to make it possible? But, despite having conquered the immense technological difficulties in acheiving this, aliens somehow haven't got stealth capability, or a drug like rohypnol to knock out humans while they are anally probed.

me: again. see how this confirms whati say above. IF your presupposition cancels out the very existence of UFOs bcause of 'physics' then tis would blind you to actual sigtting evidence of actual craft. get me? which you are pre-suming is coming frrom a vastly far galaxy

Current physics shows us the enormity of the problem that is travelling between stars. Blurry video does not solve this problem!

therer aen't just 'burry' videos, there exist also very clear photos which experts canno detect forgery

[phlogistician]

therer aen't just 'burry' videos, there exist also very clear photos which experts canno detect forgery

Please link such photos then please.

BTW, here's a story about photos that were undetected forgeries in their time too;

http://www.rotten.com/library/hoaxes...ngley-fairies/

Back on topic, how about Billy Meier, and his very clear photos? How come one man sees so many UFOs? How come in his 8mm video footage UFOs appear to swing, as if on strings?

[Ophiolite]

Back on topic, how about Billy Meier, and his very clear photos? How come one man sees so many UFOs? How come in his 8mm video footage UFOs appear to swing, as if on strings?

Coincidence?

[duendy]

Please link such photos then please.

oh MR. haveyou got finger and a blummin computer? yes? then do the work yerself. whys it you wnt me to do all your leg work?yu present YOUR evidence that such and such a pic IS fake. prove it to me. but there will still beother pics you may NOT be able t prove ar fakes, what then? do you go to the side thay they 'must' be? or are you true sceptic and keep asking queations in a state of 'dont know' huh?

BTW, here's a story about photos that were undetected forgeries in their time too;

http://www.rotten.com/library/hoaxes...ngley-fairies/

me--oh my daaays. theyare so obviously false. what kind of an analogy is this?

Back on topic, how about Billy Meier, and his very clear photos? How come one man sees so many UFOs? How come in his 8mm video footage UFOs appear to swing, as if on strings?

is 'APPEAR' part of thescientific method? have got scientific closure there, or is that critique merely anecdotal?

[phlogistician]

oh MR. haveyou got finger and a blummin computer? yes? then do the work yerself. whys it you wnt me to do all your leg work?yu present YOUR evidence that such and such a pic IS fake. prove it to me. but there will still beother pics you may NOT be able t prove ar fakes, what then? do you go to the side thay they 'must' be? or are you true sceptic and keep asking queations in a state of 'dont know' huh?

No, I won't do that. Because I haven't got time to debunk all the stuff that isn't true. Something isn't true until proven false either. YOU make the claims, YOU provide the evidence, it's that simple. If YOU are too lazy to justify YOUR position, or you take things on faith, what you have is a religion, not a pseudoscience. I am a true skeptic btw, I'm here, asking for you to show me evidence. If I were closed miinded, I would have made my mind up already, and nothing you could show me could change it. I'm giving you an opportunity to convince me.

me--oh my daaays. theyare so obviously false. what kind of an analogy is this?

The analogy is that they fooled people of the time. Are you familiar with the story? Anyway, the point is that people believed on the evidence of a forged photo. Same goes for ETIs. Fake photos start a belief system. Physics which is well established contradicts the belief system, but the believers say physics must be wrong because they have a blurry photo. Or they have a nice clear Billy Meier fake (check out the absence of shadows in some of his work, he's not a great faker).

[craterchains (Norval]

The obvious lies and deceptions being stated by some in here are for one reason only.

Deception breeds confusion,
Confusion breeds insanity.

You will never convince "them" even though you explain it in detail. They will never comprehend. Disclosure is inevitable.

Hi yah flogger, just stopped off to say hello, and let the gang remember with a small reminder. There is far too much evidence for the serious researcher and searcher's to ignore. UFO's are real and have been all through recorded history.

But, keep flogging the masses, many will get discouraged, and some will comprehend there are Bad ET's amongst us humans. Losers, cast down, fallen from "heaven".

Read all about it in the bible.
It's not about religion, it is the signal S.E.T.I ignores. And, we have had it for thousands of years.

Sea Yah
Norval

[duendy]

let me try andanswer you both:

phlo., i feel that you are not hip to te bigger picture a going on. i keep saying over and over that this bigger pic needs being explored cause it gives added hints/clues
for examplioni...why is it the CIA funds debunkers of UFOs AND their opposite camp? just that question alone whether you believe it or not, you'll have to see for yourself)...whats that mean. ...OK

so you are looking at other stuff--not to do wit UFOs, and you see the doing it wit other so-called opposing camps. and you learn they do this for a reason. to DIVERT attntion away from the real smell----clue

what could it be then? i am exploring it could be suppressed technology.......
i see you raising your eyes right

but do you believe tey do NOT have secrets? an agenda. apparently this began big time with thie r national security act, right? this meant they could be very secret in deed

when you say that the existence of UFOs would undermine physics, how d'ya mean? anti'gravity? etc.......but you muust admit that eventually physics will change dont you. i mean what we know now and everyting.....

but what about them knowing stuff in advance that they keep secret? can you entertain that idea?

.........and craterchains-----when fallen angels is talked about, i also want us to keepmin mind a bigger picture. i am aware much stuff has been written about the so-called Anunnanki, and we have David Icke, etc etc. but what sounds much more plausible to me i learnt from Professor John Aleegro in his book The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, where he amongst other tingsexplores etymological roots of terms used in mythology

now dig this 'fallen angels'--what do they mean? rel actual aliens, Satanic angels?.....i believe with Allegro and Wasson et al it is referring to psychedeli mushrooms. here's why

as u can imagine--as is the case now, the experiential relationship between humans and shrooms is AWESOME. porbably the deepest exprience we may have
the ancients didn't have access to microsopes and hence knowing how shrooms' spores seeded them sos thy built a myth that they were 'virgin born'-----th patriarchy also demonized them by suggesting they were fallen satanic angels!

ths is still not to prsume their aren't aliens amongst us. i dont know!

[phlogistician]

The obvious lies and deceptions being stated by some in here are for one reason only.

Norv, I'm not part of some group conspiring to cover up the existence of ETIs, can we get that straight?

I'm just a guy with a fair background in science, that has been lucky enough to work with astronomers, engineers, NASA staff, one astronaut, earth observation researchers, environmental researchers, and various other people who's job it is to monitor the earth and the skies.

And you know what? Despite these people having satellites looking down at earth, recording every heat flare, and tracking every aircraft, and despite the others having satellites that look outward, and perform all sky surveys in a multitude of wavelengths, and the rest, monitoring the seas, and what moves in them, not one, not a single one, whilst analysing their data, ever said 'that's odd, looks like a UFO'.

One did detect the location of a 'secret' nuclear reactor with one of his instruments. He wasn't bumped off, or silenced (I'm meeting him for a beer next week), and the data he used to discover it is public domain, anyone could discover what he did if they analyse the data.

And here we get to the crux of it. You don't analyse data Norv. You look at pictures. If you want to analyse data, get yourself a copy of IDL and the relevant bolt ons, a copy of ftools (free download from NASA), and some FITS files, and get analysing. Derive some real results Norv, instead of speculating over .jpeg images.

[phlogistician]

when you say that the existence of UFOs would undermine physics, how d'ya mean? anti'gravity? etc.......but you muust admit that eventually physics will change dont you. i mean what we know now and everyting.....

Maybe we'll discover loopholes in physics, or there will be a new theory, who knows? One thing I do know though, is that it will be discovered by scientistists, following scientific method. Not by some woowoo with a camcorder, or by someone claiming to have reverse engineered alien spacecraft. (and if so, why hasn't he publicised the specifics?).

UFOs being ETIs contradicts physics as it stands. Instead of claiming UFOs are ETIs, folks should be investing time in real science, and showing how FTL travel can be achieved, etc, because one fact that will always be true, is that space is huge, and travelling in it very time consuming without such a technology.

But maybe we won't have another paradigm in physics. Maybe relativity is the final theory, we just need to finalise the ties with quantum mechanics. Just because we haven't found a new paradigm, doesn't mean there is one waiting to be discovered. At some point, we will run aground and be at the limit of what we can discover and achieve. And that might fall well short of being able to travel easily in space, and the same will hold for every civilisation throughout the Universe, science being universal.

Now, you have to weigh up each option. New paradign, or not. The evidence isn't good for a new paradigm at the moment. BUT if you wnt to make a name for yourself, go find it, publish it, and be the next Einstein.

[duendy]

Maybe we'll discover loopholes in physics, or there will be a new theory, who knows? One thing I do know though, is that it will be discovered by scientistists, following scientific method. Not by some woowoo with a camcorder, or by someone claiming to have reverse engineered alien spacecraft. (and if so, why hasn't he publicised the specifics?).

me: firstlet me just make a comment you made to othe poster----about your work and how not of you colleagues has ssen any odd UFOs........Well, that proves what exactly? i have heard and seen reports from people working in such positions, plus airline pliots, even an astronaut who HAS.....so?....you have your story/eperience, and i have mine.
Referring to te question above, ie., that if such and such a scientist HAS discovered advanced technology why hasn't it been publicized.....we have been all over this. I explained that a theory is this: imagine IF it were known about--reverse engineering, free energy. what do you think would happen? wouldn't it ttally revolutionize everything? and wouldn't the established power structures be seriously affected? do you not know tat certain things are suppressed by thepowers that be?
i gave an illustraton of HEMP. Hemp was known for ages as being useful for all manner of tings, paper, oil, rope, etc etc. It is one of the most versatil plants on earth. in te 30s Anslinger cdreated black propaganda films and comics which demonized its ''high' variety --called 'Reefer Madness', whic emonized ALL of Hemps uses, thus giving themajor big players, in plastic and paper and oil full monopoply.....Now that is with a an ancient PLANT. how much so woulod this suppression be for a new technology? thnk about it? it is naive to just imagine in this world things just are allowed to happeh willy nilly. tere are secret forces manipulating yours and my lives. BELIEVE IT!

UFOs being ETIs contradicts physics as it stands. Instead of claiming UFOs are ETIs, folks should be investing time in real science, and showing how FTL travel can be achieved, etc, because one fact that will always be true, is that space is huge, and travelling in it very time consuming without such a technology.

me: whati keep saying is that i am NOT saying UFOs and ETs are connected. i am saying thepssibility that tat myth is PUSHED b CIA etc to.....DIVERT ATTENTION AWAY from advanced technology. yes?

But maybe we won't have another paradigm in physics. Maybe relativity is the final theory, we just need to finalise the ties with quantum mechanics. Just because we haven't found a new paradigm, doesn't mean there is one waiting to be discovered. At some point, we will run aground and be at the limit of what we can discover and achieve. And that might fall well short of being able to travel easily in space, and the same will hold for every civilisation throughout the Universe, science being universal.

me: dont you remember just before modern physics how another spokesperson for classical sciene said sometingsimilar to what you are saying?....that science has nearly discovered everythin there is to now...?!!!!!!!!!!

Now, you have to weigh up each option. New paradign, or not. The evidence isn't good for a new paradigm at the moment. BUT if you wnt to make a name for yourself, go find it, publish it, and be the next Einstein.

But as i said. that is fairytale land. te noble scientist and all that. since the national security act, all forms of shit is goin down. weapons being designed for evil purposes....heard of the new world order....te world you seem to be living in friend is some de-noired worldwhere nob;le scientists are open and allowed to invent inventions to enlighten the world etc etc....things are much MUCH more sinister than that.....VERY unfortunately

[btimsah]

The guy who photographs these UFO's, says he has taken hundreds of them.

Which leads me to believe he fake's hundreds of them to sell them.

SERIOUSLY, What are the chances that ONE MAN would photograph different alien space crafts (Okay, UFO's) HUNDREDS of times? Get real.

[Silas]

Btimsah, there you are - read your pm's, man. What the hell happened to your forum?

[Silas]

Oh, and good point! (We skeptics will get you thinking rationally eventually.... :P)

[phlogistician]

Duendy, it would be easier to reply to you if you quoted things properly, and put a /quote at the end of where I speak, so your replies stand out.

Look, you missed what I was saying completely. Some people might see strange things in the sky, but I have worked with people that actualy gather data, and they do not find anomolies in their data. SO, what we are left with, is that human perception of events is skewed. This is nothing new to science, and science tries to remove the human element as much as possible.

So you aren't making a link between UFOs and ETIs? You think that UFOs are secret technology. They aren't UFOs then, are they? They're secret air craft. So what? The Skunkworks are testing new aircraft all the time, and have done for a very long time.

So it's only a mystery, because people work very hard to keep it that way.

[duendy]

Duendy, it would be easier to reply to you if you quoted things properly, and put a /quote at the end of where I speak, so your replies stand out.

me: owing to the limitations of my system, i cant do stuff that many of yous can. thus surely me showing you i am answering your paragraph (quote) with a separate paragraph (me is sufficiently understandable?????.....good

Look, you missed what I was saying completely.

me: oh....i see. what are you saying?

Some people might see strange things in the sky, but I have worked with people that actualy gather data, and they do not find anomolies in their data. SO, what we are left with, is that human perception of events is skewed.

me: 'gather data'? i have also witness professional men who claim to also find anomlaies in data......? there is VERY famousdata of film taken from outer space whre seeming strange UFOs have been seen, plus one where it seems to b fired at, and moves off! etcetera etc....and since when isn't photographic and video evidence 'data'?

This is nothing new to science, and science tries to remove the human element as much as possible.
me: well you have siad it as it is. 'remove the human element'. Scientism has nothing bu disregardfor individual perception, intelligence, analysis. which is why it is a religion like any other.
I am all for being 'careful', but the followers of scientism reveal to me all te irrationalities of other belief-systems that concretize into dogma, with its preconceptions

So you aren't making a link between UFOs and ETIs?

me: First----i don't know. asyou dont know, right? or do you??
Whatni am exploring is the possibility--gleaned from researhces of mine--that all tis emphasis on UFOs being utterly connected with 'ETs' my be a DIVERSION. A means to divert attention away from suppressed advanced technology--which if KNOWN about generally, would truly shake up power structures which are there to oppress

You think that UFOs are secret technology. They aren't UFOs then, are they?

me: they would still BE UFOs obviously...ie., unidentified flying object. what else could they be. the usual observer couldn't say 'thas a plane....spaceship...hangglider' could they?

They're secret air craft. So what?

me: a HUUUUGElot indeed if they are using advaned physics we donna know about...wouldn't you say?

The Skunkworks are testing new aircraft all the time, and have done for a very long time.

me: which means what. that your only interest in possible advanced technology is if i is ET?.....again i am saying 'advanced'....you know like flying saucers?

So it's only a mystery, because people work very hard to keep it that way.

so youseem to be AGREEING with me now?

[phlogistician]

Duendy, the footage you refer to is from a Shuttle mission, and is merely debris getting blown by a manouvering thruster. The film does not consitute 'data' btw, as it does not quantify any of the events we see. If does not tell us the size, or distance of the object, not it's velocity.

I dislike the term UFO, because it is so often misrepresented. Most link it to ETIs, and some natural phenomenon, and others stealth aircraft. Natural phenonena aren't flying, Venus doesn't fly, shooting stars don't fly. The latter are 'secret' not unidentified, but definitely fly. So let's make direct statements about what we believe. I'll go first.

We are not being visited by ETIs.
Most footage we see of so called UFOs is fake, mistaken aircraft, stars, or natural phenomenon.
There are definitely stealth aircraft being tested all around the planet, maybe people see these and think WTF? and think ETIs.
I don't think the govt use ETIs/UFOs as a cover for stealth aircraft deliberately. I think they woul dmuch rather remain quiet on the whole subject.

Your turn.

[duendy]

Duendy, the footage you refer to is from a Shuttle mission, and is merely debris getting blown by a manouvering thruster. The film does not consitute 'data' btw, as it does not quantify any of the events we see. If does not tell us the size, or distance of the object, not it's velocity.

me: oh, alright, interesting....but, do you have the sources that told you this? can you link us up to tis info? ta

I dislike the term UFO, because it is so often misrepresented. Most link it to ETIs, and some natural phenomenon, and others stealth aircraft. Natural phenonena aren't flying, Venus doesn't fly, shooting stars don't fly. The latter are 'secret' not unidentified, but definitely fly. So let's make direct statements about what we believe. I'll go first.

me: if you 'believe' you have stopped looking, exploring. which is why i am tryng to keep to 'i dont know'. if i BELIEVE 'it' 'is' man-made phenomena, or ET, or earthlights, or weatherballons, por Venus---then ii am limiting my capaciy for invisitagting about it. yeah some UFOs can be earthlihht, but does that meean ALL are...or all are weatherbaloons. get me. so it is advisable to be more flxible is what i am saying, or one can become all dismissive about other views, possibilities


We are not being visited by ETIs.
Most footage we see of so called UFOs is fake, mistaken aircraft, stars, or natural phenomenon.

me: see what i mean. you are revealing blind faith there phlo/ you do not know lik the rest of us here do really not know. first be hnest with yourself and oters. dont make statemets you canny backup

There are definitely stealth aircraft being tested all around the planet, maybe people see these and think WTF? and think ETIs.

me: 'maybe' maybe not!

I don't think the govt use ETIs/UFOs as a cover for stealth aircraft deliberately. I think they woul dmuch rather remain quiet on the whole subject.

me: i gell with te last part of what you just said...about keeping schtum. after all they created the national security act making all their doings secret. so we DONT know do we?

Your turn.

i am exploring whatmay be plausible.....i have seen programms, photos, video footage, and listened to seemingly sincere people froma cross section of the world community confess to witnessing weird phenomena......from there i wonder just what is going on. to just dismiss the whole lot and homogenize it is the height of slackness of inquiry. it also rveals to me, fear on the part of tose who dont efeh want to explore other alternatives

i see this fear in othe area of inquiry...religion, politics, you name it. it is a denial form of inquiry

[phlogistician]

Duendy, if you can't be bothered to quote properly, I'm not bothered about replying, save to say, 'be careful you don't keep your mind so open that your brains fall out.'