The Human, The Dream, The Myth - A Journey through human psyche.
I could have put this into human science section of sciforums (as psychology), but some of the mods may think otherwise (from my experience). So this is in parapsychology, but there is nothing parapsychological.
This is about a dream, about human psyche and archetypes. Nothing divine, nothing paranormal.
First I describe my dream as I wrote it down the morning after (this is a translation to English from Latvian),
then I analyse it using my knowledge in world mythology, archetypes, human psyche.
This is a very special dream and you'll know what I mean by saying this if you read it.
And you'll understand its' meaning if you read my analysis.
This is a dream I experienced two nights ago
In the dream I were some journalist who was researching the people in country. There were some primitive, in teared brown fur dressed country people with very long and unkept hair, and were a pain to the rest of the people in the area. They very making primitive and bad looking structures and yes, were a headache to their neighbours.
In their property there was a ugly looking looking tower made from fir branches. I took it apart and scattered the branches, then climbed up a tree in a fir forest. (I thought that they won't find me because I was intelligent, educated and smart.) So I lay there on a branch of a tree and their dog was laying on the branch beside (what did it do there?) and I was looking what they would do when they return home.
They returned, shouted in anger, were pulling their hair and were looking around for the one who had done it, but they didn't see me.
Then I felt smoke, looked around and saw that all forest was on fire and smoke and ash and flames were jumping from branch to branch. It became impossible to remain at my hiding place so I jumped down and ran. They saw me and pursued me yelling.
I ran through the burning forest and saw that it all turns into a pile of ash. They still follow me.
I ran at a seashore and leaped into waves to swim away, because I somehow knew that they couldn't swim in deep water, so I thought to swim a bit further and escape them. But the sea ended soon! A shoal began, then a desert. And those primitives were still pursuing me.
I ran through the desert for some day or so and then I didn't see them any more, but I kept going forward because there was nowhere I could return to. Thirst, heat, sand. Burning Sun.
Then I fell into some cave under the desert. There was a sand cave system beneath the desert and on the walls of the caves were primitive drawings of eyes and faces and other strange symbols. All was drawn in red and white ocher. For a long, long time I was stumbling through the underground labyrinths under the desert.
In several places there were small ponds and miniature wells from which I drew water. Drank. All was sand caves lit in weird light, strange drawings everywhere, at places at the walls there where something like gnarled and rough glass mirrors who looked like rocks. They were glowing with a strange greenish light (I'd say they were glowing with some mystic, alien, magical glow).
Then at one small and narrow pond I saw two little fish swimming. They told me (telepathically) where I had to go so that I can get further, out of the labyrinth. I thanked them and ate one of them, because I was very hungry.
Then I came to one room where there was a glass box, an Egyptian golden (very beautiful) sarcophagus and many many treasures, gold and diamond, unknown. I lifted the lid of the sarchopagus and in there I saw a girl that draw me in frenzy, almost insane, so beautiful she was, but the word beautiful is much too small to say, much much much too small!! I was looking at her and my brain was going insane, wanted to know every centimetre of her body.
Every area of her body was perfection supreme, glistering, glowing in white light.
Then some voice (probably her') told me that she is not as beautiful as she looks like, and told that I should take her out of the sarchopag, lay in there and see for myself.
I lifted her. Her substance was like a molten wax that starts to harden, but is still warm and malleable, but she was neither cold or warm. And through her were flowing waves of black light and feelings.
I took her out of the sarchopagus and saw that it was filled with some dark stuff and that her body had left an embedment of her form in the dark stuff.
She told without moving for lips, without any movement, from mind to mind. She told me (as much as I remember): "I'm not only all beauty I'm also all blackness and all death. When you'll lie in the coffin you'll feel and experience all of the universe, you'll feel the universe in all it's fullness and absoluteness, in all its' eternity and marvelousness." "I am the universe", she told.
So I lay on my side in the sarchopagus and the inner substance of it like a warm wax adjusted to the form of my body. I became one with the sarchopagus and felt. Felt and saw the first moment of my life as human, heard the first beat of my heart in the womb of my mother. I still had no bones, only cells. Then appeared the first small bones, I grew, grew big and felt strong, then weaker, then my flesh decayed and wind blew it away, only bones remained alone in a desert sand.
Wind blew from them and they became sharp. I saw Egyptian numbers on small pieces of stones before my eyes, they were in many colours and were counting the years that passed. Ten, twenty, fifty, hundred, two hundred, two, five hundred, thousand, two, three, ten thousand, twenty thousand years. I felt that the edges of my bones start to become stone. The numbers still counted - one hundred thousand years! Now my bones were stone and I they remained in such a state laying there in the hot sun of Egypt, the desert sand. And the years continued to count.
I got out of the sarchopagus and was shaken to the very depths, but it was an amazement, no fear. And I saw the form of my body in the sarchopagus.
I apologized to the girl that I had spoiled her form in the sarchopagus, but she told (without moving her mouth, as always) that I have nothing to worry about and that the sacrchopagus will adjust itself to her, and that I should place her back in now.
And I lowered her into the sarchopagus and felt not only her absolute beauty , but also death and darkness in her, and I wasn't less amazed, no, I was marvelling at her. She and myself, we were perfect and we were dead without ever being alive, we felt death but at the same time encased it. Death wasn't around us, we were around death. We were parts of the universe and the whole universe in one time, death wasn't the end of feelings. [these are my thoughts from within the dream, not aftewords]
Then I went to one chamber beside and saw many devices. In them I saw a ball that was decorated with many gems and it had one eye. I knew that the ball will be granted as mine and I'll be able to roll it before me and see with the eye of the ball. There many other things, were also some gambling tokens (as those in casinos). I played a game with someone and that someone asked if I was a gambler. I strongly objected (because I am no such) and told that I simply had gotten very bored here under the desert. "Good, good" said the voice and told me that I should return to the girl. That someone had to go, that someone was a guard and it went on its' round through the underdesert caves.
I longed to get back in the sarcophagi, to feel again!!
I went to the girl and she started to tell the names of all the holy places on earth. The place in the ancient Egypt where she lay, St' Petter's square and many many others I don't remember any more, many holy places from the whole world. Then I suddenly found myself in Germany. It was winter and all around was Disneyland where actors were dressed like characters from cartoons and were laughing in that Germany city, were giving away gingerbread to the passers by.
Then I woke up.
[This I wrote then ->]You know.. after the journey to the beginnings of the human world, the temple under the sand, the primal source of human consciousness.. it was a pilgrimage. meeting with the universe, with myself, the witnessing of my birth and continuity.. I was there where no NASA and no archaeologist had been. One can only scream and laugh from happiness and excitement[<-This I wrote then]
Now the analysis using the archetypes Jung and others have revealed, as well as my knowledge.
You may agree with it, you may object, I invite you, but two days after the experience I still just lay in my bed and feel as I've dived in a pool of bliss and pleasure, and recall what I witnessed, the place in my psyche I had been to. No other journey before and no physical journey can grant the experience this gave me.
The first symbolical thing is those primitives, cave people, causing havoc in a modern day dream-world.
Well.. we have plenty of chaos and inharmony in our current world, don't we? The cave people in my dream are like demons (dancing, shouting, acting like non-human animals).
I associate them with demons, because in mythical archetypes a demon is a unconscious impulse which brings dynamic in life. Those people looked like demons tend to look in myth and they certainly brought dynamic.
For one reason or another I interfered with that dynamic and destroyed it, destroyed the human/demon made structure and restored the natural order of things. Then I hid in the natural order, in nature (as- on a forest tree branch). And a dog was beside me. The dog had been just as smart or wise as me and hid from the expected burst of energy from the demons. The dog as animal and myself as animal we found ourselves at one place in nature.
Now came the anger of demons (or cave people if you wish, the dynamics and moving forces of our society), but it didn't hurt, they didn't see us in the forest. But something else came - fire.
Fire is a great archetypal symbol, it is the sacrificial fire, the fire of the sun, the transforming fire.
It was not caused by the demons, it came from nature (and I can tell that, because I knew that in my dream).
So my action of destruction towards the demons/common actions of society and the restoration of the natural order called in the rapture of nature, the transforming fires. They made me run, they were the reason why my hero-journey began.
In all myths of the world there are common steps and in all of them there is the journey/travel of the hero (or heroess). And dreams are only personalized myths. Our consciousness takes the archetypes which are common in all humans and in dreams creates a personal myth-story from those images.
You may say that not all your dreams are adventures, but that is only when consciousness is dilluded or dirty with problems of the current-world, i.e., with the dynamic of life, the impulses that darken a clear view, not the eternity which is life.
Thus started my journey and the dynamic impulses of life pursued me as I tried to avoid them.
I moved through the water, but it didn't save me. The sea is usually associated with the cosmic sea or eternity from which all comes, but I moved through it as a human being, it took strength to move in it, it took time, I was still in the grasp of time together with the pursuers who followed me.
As I probably unconsciously realised that I came to a desert. Desert sand, sands of time, sand is time.
Now more literally I moved through the symbol of time and as before the pursuers continued to go after me,
but soon they were lost, didn't continue their pursuit. The main point of the journey now turned away from the pushing force and instead turned to me as the moving force. I mean, I didn't just fall and die in the sand, I continued to go on and I felt discomfort and thirst and pain, but I continued instead of all. You know, all the little feats of the hero uptakes in the path to the glass mountain or castle where the princess lays, the path prepares for the final act. In all the stories, in all the myths. The fires of the sun transformed me till I was ready to be admitted in another place and the world (or ground ) then opened.
And then I fell through the sand, through the time to a realm beyond time, to a place disengaged from time.
I came to a system of caves. Cave is the primaeval shrine, probably the first shrine. The first cave-shrines in Europe go as far back as 100000 years.
(All the cultures that have piled themselves atop one another in Europe for all these milenia... Mesopotamia may be the place of the oldest known civilization, but Europe is the place where the culture began. It is the oldest known culture in the world and we (who are Europeans) are its' descendants.)
In the cave-shrine (or the temple) I found primitive paintings in ocher. Red and white faces. I think that with no doubt we can account a human face to be symbolic of humans. So it was a human temple, not some demon or monster temple. And it suggested a prehistoric origin (as ocher being used as paint material in the most ancient of shrines). So it was a very ancient human temple/shrine outside of the field of time and it was/is in my human psyche. It resides there as an archetype, as a symbol and as a place my consciousness visited. It is in me, but it is also me and that temple is in every human being. And only the humans who have exiled them from the dynamics of modern world can visit that temple because it is hidden, covered by the sands of time. Only a person which skips the distractions of the dynamics of our time and all time and culture and other happenings/things attached to time can come to that temple.
The alien looks of the temple. I don't know. Everything unknown looks mysterious. Upon visiting a primal shrine you can expect to see things that humanity has long since lost.
The glowing glass mirrors reflecting nothing, i.e., you saw only the mirror as if there was nothing to reflect. I was nothing to reflect, because I am nothing to be reflected that would look different on the mirror than any other thing, but that's later to come.
There I also met two talking fish who helped me out in my journey and showed the way. Those were classical helpers met in myths. The old wise man in European tales, the spider woman in American-Indian tales/myths, an animal in the tales of the people of far North. In a spiritual or mythical journey meeting a helper is the most common thing.
Funny thing (and also a bit original in mythology) is that I ate one of the helpers (myself being a vegetarian and all). Maybe it symbolizes the fact that I now knew the knowledge the helper had, i.e., the right way outside of the labyrinth, so the consumption of knowledge was symbolized by the direct consumption of the helper - the original knowledge holder.
Then I came to the room of treasures and the sarcophagus. Thus the sarcophagus was presented as a great treasure. And it's logical to assume that since through the labirynth I came to the treasure room it was also the way out of the labyrinth as told and guided by the helpers.
Sarcophagus is a mixed symbol. It is also not a prehistoric symbol (in a sarchopagi, coffin or any other form), but I assume that the sarchopagi (or later coffin) symbol as a place to lay dead in first originated in ancient Egypt. And as place to lay in the "dead" Egyptian sarchopagus has a very special meaning and purpose. In ancient Egypt sarchopagus is not a place to stash away now useless body, in ancient Egyptian mythology and culture the sarchopagus is machine with which to achieve immortality, be conscious in eternity, it's a container to safe keep exactly 1/2 of the human. Human consists of two - the body and the soul. Ka is the soul. You want to live eternally as a immortal human being and everything that is understood by the human being, you have to have a body. So you must preserve the body to keep the human together -> soul and body make human, soul without a body is not a human. If you are "dead" and still have the body, you are still being a human (in one realm or another). That's the logic of ancient Egypt and I can't argue with it. [giggles]
So, if you see a sarchopagus as a symbol, you don't see a grave where dead meat lays, you see a device to achieve immortality.
So an alive looking person lying in a sarchopagus means that that person is immortal and conscious in eternity.
The following events are most interesting. (Maybe I open the sarchopagi as told by the fish as a way out of the place, maybe out of curiosity, I don't know or remember)
1st - I see ultimate beauty in the sarchopagus depicted in every possible way.
Woman always has been a representation of beauty (among other things), woman is also the representation of nature and life. Mother earth, mother goddess, the goddess, the primary god of the bronze age Europe and also the stone age Europe. In Hinduism all other gods are her children.
Next the goddess tells me that she is not only all the beauty, but also all the blackness and death. And that she is also the universe.
Now this is very important. This is the primary, basic, all underlaying, fundamental idea of all mythological systems. Think of Kali, the dancer. She dances life, death, birth. She drinks blood, she kills and she creates,
Kali represents mother nature as a composition of things. She is not good, she is not evil, she is beyond good and evil, beyond life and death, she is the spledor and grandeur of the universe in all its' forms.
You don't need to fear Kali, because she is your mother, your creator, the motion that creates life.
(Please mind, that she doesn't require a creator in the christian mythological sense of view, she is the metaphor of the natural processes of nature and the universe. Nothing more. She is the natural process, the laws of physics in motion, she is what we observe in our universe, she is that one)
Kali is the rhythm and dynamics of the universe, the metaphorical representation of it and she as THE GODDESS (the most ancient and the first of the gods in our culture) is the one from which all other gods come from. All other gods are representations of some aspects of her, i.e. the dynamics and the way of the universe. All the other gods are metaphors of some aspects of the dynamics (the god of the dead Thantos in ancient Greece, or the god of the thunder Perkons in Baltic tribes, and so forth).
So there she lay in the sarchopagi and she lay in the dark stuff that was in the sarchopagi.
Now - sarchopagi as a device to achieve conscious immortality through eternity. The human body lays unharmed through time, it lays in eternity. In my dream the goddess immortal and aware of herself lay in eternity, the dark stuff that was in the sarchopagi.
Next she told me to lay in eternity (I'm now using directly the symbol). The dynamics of the universe allowed me to experience eternity aware. I lay in it and saw my birth at the very early cellural stage, I was aware from the birth of my body, then the life, then after the death of my body, after the body turned into stone. And I experienced myself as Ka (the soul of the ancient Egyptians or in any other mythology by some other name) myself not as a human, the human was dead, the body of the human.
Now with the body of human gone I experienced what is eternity. It's a most confusing, fantastic and puzzling feeling, the process of being aware of it, the actual experience of being outside the field and the power of time. That is immortality.
The Egyptians wanted to be immortal as humans, therefore they needed to safe keep their bodies, but if you're not attached to the fact of being human, you can achieve immortality (also - not be born again (reincarnate) in hinduistic/buddhist sense). But don't start the hype or objections, it's not the immortality as you think it is or you now think what I mean it to be. I'm not speaking of afterlife in the christian sense (laughs). it's not just the body. I'm continuing my analysis, please follow.
When I return from the direct experience of eternity to my human body I have a realization, or revelation as some might say. I knew the facts of the revelation before with my intellect (as my hobby is studying world myths and spiritual systems), but this time it was a direct experience, I experienced what I knew only from books and stories. Compare it to a human who knows that the Earth is orbiting the Sun. Ok, so it is, and the human still lives in a flat world knowing it's not flat. But then the person is taken up in space and he remains there for thousands of years marvelling on how Earth is orbiting the Sun, when the person returns to Earth, he or she can not forget the experience, she lives in a world that is not flat. The same happened to me. I became aware and now know it not only through my intellect , but also with my wisdom. The journey man returns and tells - I was there, I saw.
Now to the realization. I, Kali, the Goddess and all the gods within her are one, we are inseperatable. We are the Universe, the universe is us. Actually there is no us, there is no me, there is no You (my dear reader), there is only the universe flowing in eternity. Life is the moment, the experience when the universe is consciously aware of time. Life is that moment of awareness and there is no death. You lose nothing upon death, there is nothing to lose and nothing can be lost. You can't do a thing about it. If one dies, the body goes. Even the clever Egyptian set of tools (mummification, sarcophagi, pyramids) won't save you because when one dies, one loses the mortal delusions, i.e., that the body is you (or a part of you). Of course through spiritual or other methods one can realise that before the loss of the body.
What you think is you, you are not it. What you are afraid to lose, it doesn't even exist. You think soul (Ka) exists? Well, it exists aright, but it's only a part of you when you have a body, soul is the knot of human emotions, delusions, needs that isn't hard coded in DNA, but is individual.
The reason why I and You and Kali and Goddess (as a metaphor) are one (and can be one) is because (as told in Buddhism) all is impermenant, all is without a self. We are the universe - without a soul, outside of the power of time. Our bodies are not, the stars are not, but the universe is, it just likes to experience eternity as time. You can not experience time if you are outside of its' "gravity", so the universe creates bodies, organisms, what else not so it can experience time and the rapture of it. When the body dies, the universe remains and stays the same - without a self. You remain the same - without a self and nothing is lost, even not the ability to experience time, because through other bodies and other organisms you (as the universe) shall.
This is what I knew through my knowledge, this is what I experienced, this is what I'm now consciously and contnuously aware of.
That was the culmination of my hero story, my myth journey. Now I went to the other room and met one guardian, but since I was no intruder, but was rightfully being in the temple and had just met the goddess I had nothing to be afraid of. The guardian was not guarding the temple against me. So we chatted and played a game a bit. Then it went on to its' patrol (it was something without a clear form).
A temple guardian.. (and this was a very ancient and the primary (I assume so) temple in human psyche),
a temple guardian is a special figure. As told by Joseph Campbell in his book "The hero with a thousand faces", then "The temple interior, the belly of the whale, and the heavenly land beyond, above , and below the confines of the world, are one and the same. That is why the approaches and entrances to temples are flanked and defended by colossal gargoyles: dragons,lions, devil-slayers with drawn swords, resentful dwarfs, winged bulls. These are the threshold guardians to ward away all incapable of encountering the higher silences within. They are preliminary embodiments of the dangerous aspect of the presence, corresponding to the mythological ogres that bound the conventional world, or to the two rows of teeth of the whale. They illustrate the fact that the devotee at the moment of entry into a temple undergoes a metamorphosis. His secular character remains without; he sheds it, as a snake its slough. Once inside he may be said to have died to time and returned to the World Womb, the World Navel, the Earthly Paradise. The mere fact that anyone can physically walk past the temple guardians does not invalidate their significance; for if the intruder is incapable of encompassing the sanctuary, then he has effectually remained without. Anyone unable to understand god sees it as a devil and is thus defended from the approach. Allegorically, then, the passage into temple and the hero-dive through the jaws of the whale or through the sands of desert in my case are identical adventures , both denoting, in picture language, the life-centering, life renewing act.
No creature, (writes Ananda Coomaraswamy), can attain a higher grade of nature without ceasing to exist.
Indeed, the physical body of the hero may actually be slain, dismembered, and scattered over the land or sea - as in the Egyptian myth of the saviour Osiris: he was thrown into a sarchopagus and comitted to the Nile by his brother Set.."
LOL, I just read this other paragraph about Osiris. Simmilarities with my adventure - sarchopagus.
The quote was from the Joseph Campbell book.
I now continue with my analysis.
I saw the magical ball with gems and the eye as explained before. The eye.. [smiles] you know, wedjat (my avatar pic) was chosen long before I saw this dream. That ball is a tool that I knew I shall be granted (but I didn't see that in the dream.. hmm.. or maybe I did). The tool that grants the ability to see. After the experience, the gain of the ultimate wisdom.. yes I have the tool, I see myself and others and their place in the universe, in life and outside of it. And maybe that's why I saw germany as disneyland.
Then I returned to the coffin/sarcophagus and the girl told me all the sacred places in the world including her resting place in egypt. I guess they are now open to me. With no guardians guarding the halls. I already told about the guardians. Now all the gods, all the hells, all the beasts are within me. They are me. And I (as a human being) am the source of all the gods (as metaphorical entities created by human psyche). They are me - the psyche. They are me - the universe.
Then I am returned to the world. With all the knowledge and all the new wisdom. My body died there, it's fossils now, for 100000 years at least. But I was reborn and returned to the world.
It's a brand new day, the Sun has just risen and all eternity is around me. I think this is going to be a beautiful day. Let's see what we can do here.
credits to all who read though my text' http://piparmetra.net/forums/images/smiles/thumb.gif
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
If you don't, seek the temple in your psyche. It's there, eternal, beyond time.
Last edited by Avatar; 05-31-05 at 11:27 PM.
Reason: typos (there are more)
Now that I think of it then
technically in a historical view according to the traditions of many cultures all around world I am now a monk/shaman/teacher/what not, etc. [laughs]
I was admitted into the temple/sanctuary, I met the godess and was granted the wisdom of the temple.
Now I'm the holder of that wisdom. And I have even returned and technically (not intentioally) have began giving the wisdom further.
Returned to the world to distribute my knowledge/teach. [rolls in laughter!!]
Well.. I guess I continue to go the hero path of the world mythologies after all. Many, many heroes/heroesses return and tell of their adventures, their success (or failure) and the things that they have seen and learned to those they left back at home.
I guess I'm under the spell of the myth too. But I'm not against it, not at all.
Cool dream bucko. It had all the elements of a dream combined with classic
heroism. Quite attractive in every respect.
I have had and continue to have quite fantastic dreams and consider myself
a bit of an expert on them. I do have some comments I wanted to share:
THE CAVEMAN FORREST BURNING SCENE:
In the dream world, when trying to hide from something, you're essentially
hiding from yourself and no matter how good you are... your subconcious
will likely find you (this manifested in the burning forrest approach). Oddly
enough you can out-distance your subconcious and this manifested in losing
the cave-folk. Both of these outcomes have been very consistent in
CHANGING LANDSCAPES AND SUBTERRANIAN AREAS:
This is normal dream stuff. Dream terrain changes... sometimes very quickly.
You can be airborne, swimming, moving through solid matter, etc all in
a few moments. For me there is a strong correlation as to how quickly the
environment changes compared to how tired I physically am.
THE LIFE-DEATH CHICK:
Attractive attractive attractive! Looks good, makes you feel euphoric,
communicates in a cool way, represents the fantastic. What's not to like?
Dreams can result in very cool experiences like this. They can lead to
physical and emotional sensations that simply arent available when concious.
I've been fortunate enought to experience at least 10 unique states of
perception/feeling/emotion outside of what's available in full conciousness.
I consequently saw alot of hints that you lost your sense of self in the dream.
This is a physiological reaction when the part of the brain that acts as your
sens of self doesn't have enough blood flow (possibly from sleeping in an
odd position). This type of experience is usually quite profound.
Comedy central. Dreams can have very funny moments tempered with irony.
I like the fishes 'cause they're so delcious!
THE EYEBALL TOOL:
Jewel studded magic swords, wands, gloves, etc. They are shiny attractive
objects and you're going to dream about them . Because the eyeball is
a very attractive shape to you, that is how the object manifested in your
All in all, it was a great dream and if you are really looking for meaning then
I would recommend putting down the mythology and examining patterns
between dreams, how dream content aligns to what you find attractive,
how your emotional and physical states affect dream content, etc. That's
where the good stuff is!
Thank you for your comments, Crunchy Cat
I see a lot vivid dreams, but this in a long time is that is full, i.e., it composes all the parts of the standart hero path (and does that quite well).
I've had some more dreams with simmilar effect, one particulary marvelous was where I was walking on ocean and controlling the world winds during a gigantic storm.
In that same dream I witnessed the birth of human civilization.
So interesting dreams are part of my sleep quite often too, and it's nice to hear, that you have these too.
usually in dreams I get killed. One way or another, but usually from someones hand.
I've gotten so used to, that I can't even tell a nightmare apart from a normal dream, because I no longer view that as a bad dream. What happens then is that I at the same time when get killed restart in the same dream a few episodes before being killed. Then I try again.
One particulary funny dream where I was swordfighting with one wizard and he killed me for some 11 times, before I won. Always restarting a few scenes before the fight. Sometimes I just wake up without finishing the dream, because of the many restarts.
Though in the last few months the dreams where I unwillingly die in a malicious way have become very rare.
Mythology is my riding horse and the source of much of excitement in my life.
There is no wonder in that I try to explain my dream through mythology, because I wanted to have an explanation that is impersonal, not related to me as a person.
There were bits and piecies that were quite related to my personality and life of course, but I always like to go back to the roots. In the dream case those are archetypes, the common images that we all share, the common model of the adventure.
I have analysed my personality quite a bit and I know myself through and out,
know my responses, know my personal associations and what is the personal meaning of some image. There are no surprises there, I know the personal meanings without analysing those images, I recognize those images automatically.
It gets more tricky when you leave personality and go to the non-personal imagery, =or the archetypal symbolism. Because those are the images that aren't created by human aware consciousness, but by unconsciousness. It is the place where all our cultural ancestry lays. And we continue to see the images, universal symbols, mythological symbols in the modern world, because it's a part of what being a human is. Those symbols are within human psyche and they manifest outside our conscious will and/or understanding
When I spoke of meaning, I spoke of the universal meaning of the dream, the universal symbols that manifested and which manifested not because of my personality (and personal symbolism), but because of what I am (as human).
Human psyche is the grand theatre of symbolic meanings. We all have our symbols and that is why we have gods and religions. We all also have our personal symbols.
But people who don't recognize symbolism as symbolism and metaphors believe literaly in them. Thus christian religion and its' mythological system is born and all the other related stuff (sects, etc).
For example in buddhism the first thing you notice is that the sages say upfront - this all is symbolism, there are no actual gods.
Gods also are the creations of our psyche. Understanding yourself to the roots of humanity is also understanding all gods and all that there can be in life, it is also morphing with the power of gods (or the power of the metaphors, symbols they hold), the power of the human psyche.
Religios persons pray to their gods (Allah, Jesus, Jahve) as an outside power,
but there is no need to seek power in clouds or some other place,
because all the powers of humanity are within ones psyche.
It just takes skill and time to unlock it.
This is why personality is not important. Person is weak, human is strong.
If human manifests, you are the king and god, if the personality.. well.. then people are not masters of their own world.
Last edited by Avatar; 05-31-05 at 08:58 AM.
My dream last night was all over the place... everything from a Peta
conference in my mansion to being told by my werewolf doctor that I
need to loose some weight and my blood pressure is too high.
I don't have a mansion nor do I have a weight / blood pressure problem;
however, I do want a castle sized place to live and I am self critical about
my weight (the ol' personal tie ins).
Anyhow, there was one particular part of my dream that was sort of a cross
between Harry Potter, Inuyasha, and Lord of the Rings. I played the ol' can't
hide from your subconcious routine with a twist (a 3rd party was hiding).
I was invited to dinner in Sesshomorou's castle and we (myself,
Sesshomorou, rin, jawkins, and about 15 random guests) were all sitting
on the floor in his dining room having dinner in a Korean BBQ setting.
One of the guests, Smiegal, asked Sesshomorou how Nigila was doing and
if he had any insights into how her venom worked. Sesshomorou was pissed
off at the question, began growling at Smiegal, and his eyes turned red. I
simply knew that Sesshomorou was PO'd because asking about Nigila's venom
was the equivelant of asking for corporate trade secrets. Needless to say
Smiegal's days were numbered and he freaked out in apology and then bolted
out the front door.
One of the more stable powers I have in dreams is to share the 1st person
perception with a 3rd party, so I zapped myself right into Smiegal to watch
what happened outside the castle.
Smiegal knew that he couldn't run fast enough and he found a really
impressive hiding nook on the side of the castle. In this nook he was nearly
invisible and could see what was going on around him. Sesshomorou sent
a horse-driven hunting party in one direction and a set of dragons in the
other. The dragons were much faster in probing the landscape and
couldn't find anything within the 20 seconds or so from when they began
looking. So, they turned around (to help the horse party I presume) and
one surveyed the castle on the way over. One of the dragons saw Smiegal,
turned his head up, and crispy fried the little bugger in one hot breath of
My perception returned to myself in the dining room and the dream continued.
The moral of the story being that the characters in my dreams can't even
hide from each other .
I will agree that mythology is a great way to observe the way that humans
think. My observations lead me to believe that people invent fantastic ideas
and then build upon them (the primary motivation being the ideas are
Symbolism is all over the place and I see it as being the natural result of
what the human brain does... make relationships between objects
(conceptual and / or real). This is actually the very definition of meaning
and the brain is therefore a lean and mean meaning makin' machine.
Of course there is a risk to embracing the attractive and finding meaning
in everything. The risk is loosing sight of truth.
Very interesting - you change the acting character from within dream.
I never do that. Also I almost never see a character from some movie in my dream, actually I can't remember such a dream. Sometimes I see people I know, but that is quite rare.
And I never know the names of dream characters, also they never introduce themselves.
Yep, it's one of the things I can do in dreams with pretty regular consistency.
Originally Posted by Avatar
In Smiegal's case, I could see, hear, smell, touch, etc... all the things that
he did... I didn't intervene with what he was doing however (I am sure I
I've communicated with alot of unique dream characters (completely made
up) and have known their names, backgrounds, etc. before even iniating the
communication. It's like the context of a dream makes knowledge
automatically available. Cool stuff.
The most stable dream ability I have is to unlock something by verbal
command. Any lock. I say 'Open' and it unlocks. It even works on
asleep under the juniper bush
You can do anything you want in your dream: it is your dream. You are the one who makes up the characters and the setting and the plot in your dreams.
Did you train yourself into this skill or has it always been with you?
Can you explain the technique behind it? (If it is explainable)
Which one? The perspective switcher or the unlocker?
Originally Posted by Avatar
asleep under the juniper bush
Because it is a dream, one can have any ability imaginable in it, and the means of doing something will be instantly invented in that dream. Crunchy Cat can tell you how something is done in a dream, and you'll try it and it'll work, but there are other ways of doing the same thing. It doesn't even have to be a lucid dream. Lay down to sleep with a wish to do be able to do something specific in your dream. That wishing might not work for some time, but it does eventually; it's a well-tried way.
Originally Posted by Crunchy Cat
Your way seems slower and not what I want.
Originally Posted by whitewolf
I have no wish to dream a specific thing, but when I dream of something, I may have a wish to be conscious in the dream and do things "outside the box".
asleep under the juniper bush
Hey, you knew how to swim in your dream while you can't swim in real life! You'll invent the way of walking through thick walls the same way.
I suppose you should have the confidence that whatever you want to do your dream will yield. Yes, in that case, your dream needs to be lucid. Just keep in mind that in a dream you can do anything you imagine.
Heh, I read a book once where the author suggested to have the same perspective in real life. That's something to be tried carefully, of course, with pillows and all.
asleep under the juniper bush
To add, do it once and you'll be able to do it again in your dreams, the same way you return to the same place and know what's where in different dreams.
Goin' for the best I see. The unlocker spawned off of a much broader dream
ability. To make electrical machinery do my bidding. I found that I could
verbally command lights to turn on and off, TVs, toasters, etc. The ability
was inconsistent (I'll talk more about that later). At some point I extended
the ability to turn cars on and it worked (a little more consistently) and
I found myself in the awkward position of turning cars on and not being
able to get into them. I then began commanding car doors to unlock and it
worked 100% of the time to my surprise. I later began experimenting with
other locked doors and it worked. At some point I realized that it was a
generic ability to change the state of something from locked to unlocked.
The best experiment I had was unlocking 'dream reality'. Basically (like
unzipping a jacket), I opened a funky portal in the middle of my dream
scape that I could walk into. When inside the portal I could unzip things
in a different spot and go to a destination thousands of miles away in
the dream world. Kind of a poor mans teleporter .
How I perform the unlock is simply by verbal command. I say 'Open' and
whoomp there it is. I can do a laundry list of weird and cool things in dreams
and the one commonality amongst them is they are inconsistent (telekenesis
being one of the more inconsistent abilities). I have found a direct correlation
between how inconsistent a dream ability is as compared to how tired I
physically am when dreaming. The more tired I am the more consistent the
ability becomes. This applies to all abilities except the unlocker. It's just
100% all the time. My hypothesis is that I somehow trained my unconcious
to unconditionally accept that the unlocker is as natural as moving my left
arm and it get's treated that way. I unfortunately have not thought of any
experiments to test the hypothesis (at least not yet).
I can help you there. That's just a matter of making the dream lucid. You
Originally Posted by Avatar
already have the desire and that's half the battle because your subconcious
will remember that desire when you're asleep. The other half is taking the
opportunity. Plant a little question in the ol' long term memory... "Am I
dreaming". Next ponder recurring dreams you have. This will associate
the thought with the area of your brain that's being used to store memories
of dream content. What will eventually happen is in the middle of a dream
the question will pop up "Am I dreaming?". You will have a few moments to
think about the question. The answer is an automatic "yes" by virtue of
"If I have to ask then I AM dreaming". It might seem a little goofy; however,
it is single handledly the most effective means for me to become aware
that I am dreaming.
Thank You for the good advices
I'll try to apply them