prove to me that god is real

[Diogenes' Dog]

I was'nt just refering to Mosheh Thezion, all you religious nuts, and yes thats you included.
anyone who believes in a deity of any sort, is extremely dangerous to humanity.(oops, we've blown up the world, oh never mind we'll all live forever in heaven anyway, for f**k sake, give me a f**king break.)

I'd say that everyone that knows:

1) that they are right and
2) anyone who disagrees with them is dangerous.

Is extremely dangerous to humanity. It doesn't matter too much what the content of their belief is 'cos it's the will to impose it on everybody that makes them dangerous. Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mao, Franco, Saddam Hussein, Idi Amin - none of them very religious, all extremely dangerous.

[pavlosmarcos]

actually no, "these people" don't control our governments, our governments try to use the belief for their own personal agenda, and to try and control the people of their country.

as have all religious and political leaders from the year dot. (one nation under god and all that or islamic politics I mean religion.[QUOTE=Rickie]
when it comes down to the leaders of our fighting forces, remember that some of the greatest heros in ww1 and ww2 were theists.[/quote and so were the people who started the wars, in the first place.

if it weren't for those heros maybe we'd all be german now.

and if it weren't for these type of people, there would be no wars in the first place.

so if you ask me, i take great comfort in the fact that some of those leaders are theists. even though i may disagree with it. but hey thats just my opinion.

I'd take more comfort from the fact they did'nt fight in the first place.

not everyone gets to go.

it just that type inane stupid belief thats dangerous, there is no heaven or hell, thats the point.
life means far more to me, than any religious nutter, I want my fellow man to enjoy a long and happy life, as I know it's all he's got, and I have no wish to deprive him of it.

hell i believe and i have know doubt in my head that i wouldn't. and get it straight, it's not anyone who believes in a deity,

and thank f**k for that.

it's the extremists who are dangerous to humanity.

tell me about it, erradicate the mind virus, and there gone.

the ones who truly follow their faith know that it teaches peace and not to kill.

it's not so much that they could kill, it the fact they have dont think life is precious, and can stand on the sidelines and watch, cause there going to a heaven, lifes just a stop over, till they met jesus?.
dangerous dangerous nutters.

[pavlosmarcos]

I'd say that everyone that knows:

1) that they are right and
2) anyone who disagrees with them is dangerous.

Is extremely dangerous to humanity. It doesn't matter too much what the content of their belief is 'cos it's the will to impose it on everybody that makes them dangerous. Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mao, Franco, Saddam Hussein, Idi Amin - none of them very religious, all extremely dangerous.

most of them religous, or out of the minds, same difference, a small minority of despots were not wholely religious, but the majority were,
the ones you chose in order 1, catholic/then communist, nutter, 2, no religion known, nutter, 3, christian and jew hating nutter, 4, buddist,then communist, 5, catholic and fascist, 6, muslim, nutter.
education is the key, leave no pleb unturned. and all will be right with the world.

[SnakeLord]

Actually I can top that people everywhere know smoking increases the chance of cancer, but for many of them the belief that they cannot quit supercedes their knowledge that they should.

In this instance we are not talking "belief", but "addiction". All the "I know I should quit"'s don't mean anything to one of the most addictive substances on earth.

Try again.

Okay here is a better example which would you rather have serving under you a soldier who serves becuase he knows if he doesn't you will shoot him or a soldier who believes that you are doing the right thing. If you chose the first congratulations you are a moron.

Although I fail to see it's relevance to my quote, I will answer:

Answer: Neither, I see no point whatsoever in dying for a bit of rock. Come near me or my family, I'll shoot you dead - but otherwise I don't really give a shit. The soldier who is under threat is at least preserving his life, the latter is being naive.

Actually it is a statement said by the wise and accepted by those who know the difference between knowledge and wisdom.

Actually no, it's a statement made by idiots and accepted by idiots. I'm sorry, did you think the "actually" actually meant something?

The point is if you cannot disprove something you cannot make the claim it is not there.

And when someone said it was, you'd say "prove it". So, as a believer in invisible floaty space beings.. "prove it".

From his limited experience he can certainlu believe this. However those of us who have seen sodium or greek fire know different.

Ok, so you're saying you've seen a god? What does it look like?

but the point against you is that the genes must come together some way when a person is born. It is not like if that combination wasn't hit there would be no baby. The take a look at the myriad of things that could have happened with the universe everything form still being collapsed matter to just a sprinkle of dust everywhere

I agree. Look at all those billions upon billions of planets that don't contain life. If you don't believe me, ask a Jupiterian what he thinks of the matter. Oops, no babies there..

That his planet came about in this condition is nothing short of astounding.

Nonsense. Ok sure, it beat Jupiter, Mars, Mercury, Venus, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, Xena, u1193, and a few trillion other planets currently who's names slip my mind right now. Some of them go round their sun in a few days, some in a few thousand earth years, some have days longer than years, some turn upside down, some have moons, some don't have moons, some have rings, some don't have rings, some would incinerate a human at a thousand paces, some are, or once were, habitable. Some, like Mars, have remnants of water, some don't.

What you're saying is that Jupiter coming about in the condition it did is nothing short of astounding. I agree, it is rather marvellous - but not an indication of gods, goblins, ghosts or ghouls.

That life spontaneously started is even more astounding.

Spontaneously? Hmm...

Can we first have a quick discussion as to what life is? What, to you, is life? Is Mycoplasma genitalium life? It is certainly considered so with a genome of only 400 units. What if it had 200 units? 100? 50? Where is the line between life and chemical reaction?

So, that 200 unit "chemical reaction" becomes 400 units. You now define it as life. Is that spontaneous or miraculous?

Biblic creation in genesis goes by days, but this is not mans days but gods. At one point in the Bible god mentions that ten thousand years is but a merest moment to him.

Alas this doesn't work. It is oft mentioned that 1 day to man is a thousand years to god. In this instance the 7 day creation actually means 6000 years and 1000 years rest, (7000 years). But then that would also mean that Noah was at sea for 40,000 years, and Adam lived for 339450000 years. You cannot just switch between dating systems. A day is either a day or it's a thousand years. Which is it? The same guy that said Adam lived for 930 years is the same guy that said god created the world in 7 days. Was he talking in god years, human years or perhaps dog years?

A smart christian like myself realizes that God created the universe and all the laws and chaos that goes into it.

While you self admiration is wonderful, there doesn't seem to be much logic mixed in with that intelligence.

Evolutions exists and has existed, it is just the tool god used to get life to the point he wanted it.

You're right, evolution does exist. You guys weren't saying that 50 years ago. The more we "know" the further your god vanishes into the void. You just steal reality and give the kudos to god.

No need to be insulting about your ignorance.

Well, you trying to insult me because of my apparent insulting is hypocricy. It makes you look like a twat. If that is what you wanted, congratulations, you passed with flying colours.

Some bibles claim 7000 years. Well they all do, but they have been rewritten and rewritten and edited and changed so much in some cases

So, bibles are untrustable?

Of course the beginning got cloudy over the years, translations and oral traditions, so to put a date on things they went with most verifiable and consistant dates.

Consistant dates heh.. So either the planet was made in 7 days or Adam lived for 339450000 years. Which was it?

And by the way I'd like to see you survive in the wilds of africa after we drop you off in the buff.

I probably wouldn't, what was the point?

[KennyJC]

That his planet came about in this condition is nothing short of astounding.

I really hate this argument.

It is niave stupidity of the worst kind if you think it is therefor supporting of the idiot notion of intelligent creation (especially that of special Earth). By the same reasoning if I play a game of poker with friends and comment on the fact that "WOW! I can't believe we are all holding these particular cards! How many games would be have to play until we are all holding these cards again? Praise be to the Flying Spaghetti Monster - I have been touched by his noodly appendage!"

In reality, it would only be suspicious if we got dealt the same cards every single time. Likewise, it would only be suspicious if every planet in the universe had life.

T W Scott: How far can you bend over to suit your beleifs? Head up your own arse I bet?

[wsionynw]

Yes they do, yes it is and no it doesn't. Biblic creation in genesis goes by days, but this is not mans days but gods. At one point in the Bible god mentions that ten thousand years is but a merest moment to him. Days to him might be in the billions of our years. A smart christian like myself realizes that God created the universe and all the laws and chaos that goes into it. Evolutions exists and has existed, it is just the tool god used to get life to the point he wanted it.

.

Mate, you are talking about Genesis as if it is proven fact. If God wrote the Bible (which 'he' didn't, humans did), then why not go into more detail rather than all this vague stuff about creating everything in seven days. It makes life easier for Christians to say evolution is God's tool, because you can claim to back science. To argue that God created everything is ignorance since YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY PROVE IT!!!
The beauty of science is that you don't have to take anyones's word for it, you can go out into the real world and find our for yourself. Religion TELLS you what to believe, claims the Bible is fact and leaves it at that.
You may as well start claiming that Harry Potter is based on historical fact, or The Lord Of The Rings. I don't care how many thousands of years ago Genesis was written, it's just a story book!! Will people in thousands of years time dig up a copy of Frankenstein and then pass it off as a scientific text book??!??!?

[wsionynw]

I am agreeing with you.

My point was that people think a living creator poofing the universe into existence is actually more likely than it occurring naturally.

For there to be a living God, there would have to be another chain in the link... and that makes it more unlikely.

Furthermore, to have a book(s) actually written by this extra chain that probably isn't there should make you realize you belong to a sham of an institution.

I was agreeing with you too, was trying to back you up but I messed up my post. Doh!

[John Mark E]

It makes life easier for Christians to say evolution is God's tool, because you can claim to back science. To argue that God created everything is ignorance since YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY PROVE IT!!!

Not all Christians accept the "Theory of Evolution". The FACT is that it is not even a true THEORY. While hundreds of time animals have been found to have a few similar traits, Evolution has NEVER been proven to be a fact. Along with this, Darwin himself claimed, after continued study, that Evolution was incorrect. Evolution has never truly progressed past the HYPOTHESIS stage, and it never will.

The truth is that creatures would have died off long before the possibility of any evolutionary changes could have taken effect and progressed to the next level.

[Sarkus]

The FACT is that it is not even a true THEORY.

You are confusing the mechanics of evolution (the theory) with the FACT of evolution - that has been observed time and time again.

While hundreds of time animals have been found to have a few similar traits, Evolution has NEVER been proven to be a fact.

Yes it has. Speciation has occurred (where living organisms with common ancestory can no longer genetically produce offspring) and has been observed. This IS evolution.

Along with this, Darwin himself claimed, after continued study, that Evolution was incorrect. Evolution has never truly progressed past the HYPOTHESIS stage, and it never will.

No - he said he had doubts over HIS hypothesis of the mechanics of evolution being accurate - i.e. natural selection - in that it certainly didn't cover all things observed.

The truth is that creatures would have died off long before the possibility of any evolutionary changes could have taken effect and progressed to the next level.

And your evidence for this "truth" is...?

[wsionynw]

Not all Christians accept the "Theory of Evolution". The FACT is that it is not even a true THEORY. While hundreds of time animals have been found to have a few similar traits, Evolution has NEVER been proven to be a fact. Along with this, Darwin himself claimed, after continued study, that Evolution was incorrect. Evolution has never truly progressed past the HYPOTHESIS stage, and it never will.

The truth is that creatures would have died off long before the possibility of any evolutionary changes could have taken effect and progressed to the next level.

To be blunt, you're taking crap. Darwin had problems with his theories, of course he did, they were ground breaking at the time. The scientific commuity call it a theory, sure, but it's a theory built on tons of evidence (more like the law of evolution). Without evidence a scientific theory is nothing, a bit like claiming a God clicked his fingers and created the universe for his own amusement. Try reading some Richard Dawkins and not Bible fanatic propaganda websites. Just because you can't get your head around billions of years of evolution, it doesn't make it false science. Evolution science itself is evolving all the time, as new evidence comes to light. If someone invents a time machine we can go back and check it out first hand (some hopes of that).
What's YOUR THEORY? God bent over and pushed the Earth out from between his legs??

[Cris]

John Mark,

Hi and welcome to sciforums.

I'm afraid your perspective on evolution is severely erroneous.

Here is a link that should help educate you on the fact and theory of evolution.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

[John Mark E]

And your evidence for this "truth" is...?

Simply the amount of time required to make modification at the cellular and molecular level, BY CHANCE, which would be necessary to produce a genetically viable organism that would continue to function. There would have to be organisms that would bridge the gap between the different speices.

My personal BELIEF is that the Bible is accurate in every way, and just as it is written.

I believe that God did speak to select individuals throughout history, and instructed them on what words to write.

I believe that when Genesis reads "and evening and morning were the first day" that this was a literal day, and not representative of thousands or more years.

I believe that when God stated in the Bible that "a thousand years is as a day" that is was simply telling the reader that He is outside of Time, and therefore, Time has no real meaning for Him. It was not meant to be a matter of contention.

I also believe that God deliberately tried to make some things, such as creation, to where they don't make sense to everyone, so that when He said that His foolishness is man's wisdom, and man's foolishness is is His wisdom.

I believe that if things in nature are taken from a base point of the Bible being true, then many things will make a lot more sense than what our sciences have made.

I believe that God stated that "for without faith, it is impossible to please God."

I believe that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. For that reason, things that He listed in the Bible as unacceptable, thousands of years ago, would still be unacceptable today.

I believe that God set Israel up as His chosen people, and that this is the only reason why they are still in exsistence today. Any other culture that has gone through what Israel has, is no longer a recognized nation. With this, I believe that God extended His love to any and all others who were willing to accept Him.

I believe that if anyone tried to HONESTLY disprove the biblical scriptures, that he or she would fail miserably.

There are many other beliefs that I have concerning this subject, but there are too many more to go into fully.

Finally, I believe that I will be almost mercilessly ridiculed by almost all other subscribers to this thread. This is expected, though, as even this was predicted in the scriptures.

[Athiest Hater #1]

Simply the amount of time required to make modification at the cellular and molecular level, BY CHANCE, which would be necessary to produce a genetically viable organism that would continue to function. There would have to be organisms that would bridge the gap between the different speices.

My personal BELIEF is that the Bible is accurate in every way, and just as it is written.

I believe that God did speak to select individuals throughout history, and instructed them on what words to write.

I believe that when Genesis reads "and evening and morning were the first day" that this was a literal day, and not representative of thousands or more years.

I believe that when God stated in the Bible that "a thousand years is as a day" that is was simply telling the reader that He is outside of Time, and therefore, Time has no real meaning for Him. It was not meant to be a matter of contention.

I also believe that God deliberately tried to make some things, such as creation, to where they don't make sense to everyone, so that when He said that His foolishness is man's wisdom, and man's foolishness is is His wisdom.

I believe that if things in nature are taken from a base point of the Bible being true, then many things will make a lot more sense than what our sciences have made.

I believe that God stated that "for without faith, it is impossible to please God."

I believe that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. For that reason, things that He listed in the Bible as unacceptable, thousands of years ago, would still be unacceptable today.

I believe that God set Israel up as His chosen people, and that this is the only reason why they are still in exsistence today. Any other culture that has gone through what Israel has, is no longer a recognized nation. With this, I believe that God extended His love to any and all others who were willing to accept Him.

I believe that if anyone tried to HONESTLY disprove the biblical scriptures, that he or she would fail miserably.

There are many other beliefs that I have concerning this subject, but there are too many more to go into fully.

Finally, I believe that I will be almost mercilessly ridiculed by almost all other subscribers to this thread. This is expected, though, as even this was predicted in the scriptures.

Thank God we have a rational opinon! Ridiculed? For Lord's sake, we need to bash in the retarded skulls of Atheists, and make thempay for their wrongdoings! Woo-hoo, way to go John Mark E!

[John Mark E]

Thank God we have a rational opinon! Ridiculed? For Lord's sake, we need to bash in the retarded skulls of Atheists, and make thempay for their wrongdoings! Woo-hoo, way to go John Mark E!

No...looking to "bash in" their skulls only makes them right about us. We are called by God to look after the best interest of even our enemies, and to provide for their needs, whatever that might be. For the athiest, that need is God. But we are not to shove it down their throats. We are simply to care for them at all costs. It is the Holy Spirit's job to call the unbeliever to repentance. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the Word of God." All we can do is tell them about it. Conversion by fear doesn't convey the loving relationship that God wants with His children.

[Athiest Hater #1]

Well, actually I'm Islamic, but all of the points oyu made seem to work out here. We(Theists) need to destroy all of the major Atheist hubs, Lonon, all of the EU, parts of America, China, and more!

[thedevilsreject]

Well, actually I'm Islamic, but all of the points oyu made seem to work out here. We(Theists) need to destroy all of the major Atheist hubs, Lonon, all of the EU, parts of America, China, and more!

the mere fact that you have named yourself athEIst, spell it right first idiot, makes your arguments obsolete and irrevelant.

[John Mark E]

Well, actually I'm Islamic, but all of the points oyu made seem to work out here. We(Theists) need to destroy all of the major Atheist hubs, Lonon, all of the EU, parts of America, China, and more!

Yet their destruction would not benefit them. The Bible says, "It is not God's will that any should perish, but that all should come to salvation". Judgement is in the hands of God, not of men.

[Athiest Hater #1]

Nope, I use it because most of the time the name is taken already. I knwo how to spell it you idoiotic filth.

Moderator comment. No personal attacks please. First and Final warning.

[thedevilsreject]

Yet their destruction would not benefit them. The Bible says, "It is not God's will that any should perish, but that all should come to salvation". Judgement is in the hands of God, not of men.

great yet another religious fanatic, STOP QUOTING RELIGIOUS TEXTS FOR FUCKS SAKE

[thedevilsreject]

knwo idoiotic.

you know how to spell do you

congratulations