Lucifer original sinner? Man Second?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Scanners Imagine, Apr 4, 2005.

  1. Scanners Imagine Registered Member

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    What happened first? Lucifer going against God or Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit? If Lucifer went against God before the casting out of Eden, wouldnt the original sin be pride or whatever sin that drove Lucifer to challenge God? If that is so, is not Lucifer the one to blame for man falling.
    If man was the original sinner does that mean Lucifer learned sin from us, and we corrupted him?
    If Lucifer could choose to be corrupted does that mean he had a free will, since I was under the impression that angels were a kind of heavenly golem?
     
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  3. machaon Registered Senior Member

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    It seem a bit odd that forgiveness is so central to the teachings of Jesus. Every christian I know says that God forgives. So let me think about this for a moment. If someone does me wrong, I am not supposed to curse them and revoke their immortality? I am not supposed to cause them and their offspring to endure unbearable pain during childbirth? I should not not make just them pay, but all of their descendants as well? As far as I can tell, the bible is the antithesis of forgiveness. Forgive me for saying so. I mean think about it. How could have Eve prevented Satan from entering the garden of Eden? I imagine that would have been god's responsibility. I mean he was awful quick to post an angel with a flaming sword to keep them from coming back to the garden. Since it is not against the law to offend, I will say this. God as depicted by the King James bible is a prick and incapable of forgiveness. And I have not even got to the second chapter.....
     
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  5. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Christianity is schizophrenic, since they try to combine the old and new testaments. I know, Jesus said I don't come to reject the law, but to implement it or something, but I think his was a very different interpretation of the law. An eye for an eye can't be reconciled with turn the other cheek.
     
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  7. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    Very good point!
    The Eden garden's story is too flimsy to explain the problem of the world.
    If God is so loving, he shouldn't penalise human with such atrocious curse.

    I think human is just naturally imperfect, we need to learn more from our mistakes and to be better next time.
     
  8. Yorda Registered Senior Member

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    Humans are imperfect because they're conscious of their body. The self is already perfect, only the body needs to advance so that it can express the self more and more precisely.

    The Bible explains that we became sinners because of the snake (satan). The snake deceived the "woman" and she became sinful, then the woman deceived the "man" and he became sinful also. Humans are not responsible for their imperfection, that's just the way of nature. The evolution of a person takes time. Time is what decides. A murderer can't become good just like that, he needs to experience the consequences of his actions.
     
  9. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    no ,God is the one to blame for everything,

    if He is all knowing like Xians claim then surely he knew what old Luci will do and what Adam&Eve will do and so on...

    and no free will either with xian god

    anyway the whole story is a fantasy written by ancient people who didnt expect that man will evolve and use their brain to question and discover these inconsistensies,contradictions and eventualy realize its all fictious crap.
     

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