Solar energy

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by neil cox, Apr 2, 2005.

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  1. neil cox Registered Senior Member

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    We can perhaps dangle a large solar panel (about 3 meters by ten meters) from the top wire of a high tension line by a single wire, slightly off center. Two or three other wires connect to some of the corners with light duty winches. A computer controls the winches so the sunlight falls on the panel perpendicular as the sun moves across the sky and corrects for wind loading. Two or more wires connect to an inverter which feeds 60 hertz ac to the low voltage side of a transformer that connects to one of the phases of the high tension line. When high winds are detected the computer lowers the panel to a protective box on the ground. Please refute, comment and/or embellish. Neil
     
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  3. Nomadd22 Registered Senior Member

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    Just having a timer turn the panels to roughly track the sun each day would be far simpler, cheaper and almost as efficient. And trying to keep panels that are dangling by wires turned correctly would be pretty tough. Easier to ground mount more and smaller panels well enough to handle the wind. The protective box thing would add so much expense, complexity and maintenence to the thing it would never be financially feasible.
     
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  5. Anomalous Banned Banned

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    The problem is that all this is gona be very expensive
     
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  7. neil cox Registered Senior Member

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    I agree; the cost is likely double that of foscil fuel, until about 2012. Dangle gets the panel up high, above distructive children and some of the patches of shade from trees and shrubs and leaves the space under the panels free for other uses. I agree exactly perpendicuar is unnecessary. Mass produced the computer and mini winches may be less costly than a durable timer. Wire or rope will surely be less costly than a hundred board feet of lumber to get the panels up high. A metal frame increase probability of lightning damage. Neil
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2005
  8. GypsyNomad Registered Member

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    Hi neil cox:

    for what purpose, an experiment or for actual duty? not sure what this is for

    but costs are going down, read about solar-powered housing, mags & at library
     
  9. neil cox Registered Senior Member

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    The problem is solar panels to fill 1% of human energy needs, occupy a lot of costly acreage. Dangling utilizes very low cost space. I think we can start dangling solar panels next year to reduce our dependence on oil from nations sypathetic to terrorists. Double fossil fuel cost is cheap if it gets us significant relief from terrorism. Neil
     
  10. kazakhan Registered Abuser Registered Senior Member

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    Suspending solar panels by wires is ridiculous. A better idea would be roofing tiles\sheets of solar cells, which are already out there. Even if we managed to cover every roof with solar panels we still wouldn't cover our energy needs, solar cells need a significant improvement in efficiency...
     
  11. Anomalous Banned Banned

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    How about farming jungles ?

    I mean if we plant farms of fastest growing trees then we can use them as fuel.

    But I dont know which trees grow fastest ?
     
  12. kazakhan Registered Abuser Registered Senior Member

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    Hemp, like solar power though it will not be a total solution to our energy requirements. It grows fast, has many uses and is environmentally friendly :m:
     
  13. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    You would not be thinking of building a house down wind of the Hemp fired energy plant would you?

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    Serious, In Brazil, where I retired about 11 years ago, sugar cane is converted into Alcohol and powers many cars. Currently it sell for R$ 0.96 / liter and gasoline is about R$ 2.05/L. This is better than it usually is. There must currently be a glut of sugar on the world market. When sugar is in short supply, the price of alcohol goes up as the cane crushers can sell sugar without the relative slow fermentation process.

    There is less energy content in a liter of alcohol than in gas so the price of alcohol fuel for a given trip must be about 35% cheaper than gas to make alcohol the cheaper way to make the trip. I don't understand why, and would think just the opposite, if I did not know the facts, but it is harder to start a car on alcohol than gas. Consequently, there is a small tank of gas (about the size of the battery under the hood, perhaps next to the battery or the water tank for washing the windows. It is used just a few seconds for starting and filled up every few months.

    If you want to drive at less cost, import Brazil's alcohol car technology. - It has been in wide use for about 30 years and is quite perfected now. Recent version of cars, (more than 50% of current sales) will run on any mix of Alcohol and gas.

    Alcohol cars were not popular about a decade ago when the price of sugar on the world market was unusally high and alcohol was only slightly cheaper per liter. The car motor designers took about five years to further refine the alcohol motor. (add fuel sensors, automately change the fuel injection volumes, etc. to instantiously be correct for what ever mixture was coming to them) to be "flex mix" as it is now called.

    No one buying a flex-mix car need be concerened about the cost of sugar on the world market anymore - they can always burn pure gas if that should ever get to be more economical - a big change would be required from the current alcohol advantage.

    Brazil would be happy to license its technology and sell tanker loads of Alcohol to US, but the Iowa corn producers will (and their strong Congress lobby currently does) prevent it. Thus you probably will continue to pay more for your trips than need be, not support existing economical solar energy use, breath dirty air (Alcohol is very clean burning.), and make a great contribution to global warming just to keep a few politically well connected large Iowa farmers rich selling their "gasahol" whose alcohol content costs at least twice as much to produce as Brazil's. Alcohol from Brazil can not be economically imported because of quotos/ tariffs etc. Land and labor (to cut the cane) are very cheap in Brazil. The growing season is not stopped by a cold Iowa winter (three crops each year from each farm) - this is why Iowa's alcohol producers need these economic barriers to restric the import of low-cost, clean-burning, fuel for your car.

    Using sugar cane is not only economical, it is "environmentally friendy." alcohol fuel reduces global warming because the cane takes CO2 out of the air as it grows and all of the stuble left in the field plus the roots is plowed under and becomes part of the humus. You may not know that there is more carbon stored in the humus of a forest than in the trees, so don't worry if Brazil needs to cut down some more forest to supply the world with cheap, enviromentally friendly, clean burning fuel.

    What you should worry about is the general ignorance and lack of political will that makes you pay extra to drive and mainly enriches a few well connected Iowa farmers. If you want to support solar energy, think about this and what you might do to make the US public less exploited by a rich few. Don't take my word for it - inform yourself independently, then act in your own interest and stop paying too much to drive. The current US government is run for the rich, especially those connected to the energy industry - you pay dearly for this.
     
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  14. Anomalous Banned Banned

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    I have also heard that desiel can be replaced with coconut oil
     
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  16. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I would not doubt it. Lots of oils will burn. Brazil is currently increasing the legally permited additons to diesel - developing "biodesiel" fuel etc. The company "petrobras" is one of the largest, a leader in deep water oil extraction and supporting biodesiel development.

    Brazil crossed a very significant porduction level a couple of months ago - producing more oil than it consumes. Unfortunately the off shore oil extracted in Brazil's coastal water is relative heavy grade and even though more is produced than local consumption, Brazil still must import some lighter oil and sell the heavier so there is still a slight net "balance of payments" cost associated with oil consumption in Brazil.

    Slightly more than 50% of the ownership of petrobras is governmental and some of its economic operations are "socially motivated" but the government enjoys a trade surplus and can afford to spend a little buying the lighter oil and promoting social causes out of Petrobras profits.

    Like everything else, in the final annalysis, it boils down to cost. I can assure you that your costs to drive a car would be significantly less if you were permited to import alcohol from Brazil and use Brazil's rather than Detroit's technology in the motor. Fact that you don't have this option, breath dirty air, contribute to (rather than reduce) global warming is lack of political control and ignorance of US voters, and politicians lead around by well funded Congressional lobists.
     
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  17. Anomalous Banned Banned

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  18. kazakhan Registered Abuser Registered Senior Member

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    I'd like to start a hemp farm

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    As you say sugar cane is a better option. I just wanted to point out that hemp could be a major industry, again!
     
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