Is Bible a reliable Historical about GOD and His Son Jesus?

Why I have to believe Gospels? There is not specific date about the occurance of so many events, including the miracles.

There is not contemporary record of the Great event in other books apart from bible, such as the resurrection and miracles connected to Jesus.

About Genesis, how can the author know about what happened when God created the world? The author was not there, he was not born yet!
How the author of Genesis knew the conversation in Eden Garden? He was not there!

Can you explain?

 

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Records of Jesus in other books than the Bible are rare, but there are some. Jesus symbolises the divine "self" within all things, which people have crucified in the body. The body is an instrument for the self, but people use the self as an instrument and obeys the body. That way, you can say that they have crucified the self in the desires of the body- in time and space.

However... there is many records of the global Flood (Genesis Chapter 6: 5) in religions all over the world. I know that even was real. The flood is connected to, what now is called, the Sahara desert. The answer for the origin of the flood is there. But if you don't want to complicate things, you can just say that God flooded the earth 'cos he got angry at people's wickedness.

The author received that information from "God". Only the body needs to be born, but the self within us is eternal (and exists in all places at all times). The conversation in the Garden of Eden is a symbolical story, but it's still real. Just not in the way most people think.

 

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its all a FICTIONAL story,invented by ancient Jews to explain the unknown in the world.
and they were completely wrong on everything regarding the age of the Earth,universe and creation of life humans and everything...
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

 

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Genesis is a fantasy tale and there was never any global flood b/c theres not enough water to cover it all,
www.talkorigins.org

what an idiotic excuse,
IF god was all knowing he knew man will sin when He created him,so why not create man UNABLE to sin in the first place?
and IF god was allmighty and perfect how,why would he create man imperfect?
maybe gods not allmighty,
or not all good,
or doesnt exist at all...sure seems like it eh?

 

Yes, there are problems with limiting our knowledge to events that happened two thousands years ago, across the destruction and fall of two full Civilizations. Not many newspapers can be expected to survive that long.

However, time did not End. God did not Die. There have been Great Saints, Great Miracles, and Great Apparitions in the mean while. Not just the Catholic Church, which is almost embarrassed by its Post-Canonical Revelations from God and Heaven, terming them 'Private Revelations' but certifying them nonetheless; but the Other Higher Religions have had their Saints and Miracles -- the Sufis of the Zoroastrian Traditions (coopted by Islam, sometimes violently), and the Traditions of Yoga coming out of the Indus Valley, to include Enlightened Buddhism.

If we regard the Traditions of the Saints, some of which is rather recent, it makes the Episodes from the New Testament so much more comprehensable and believeable.

 

Hey Scorpius, Thanks for reminding me of that great link about the Bible and its many hypocrisies....
the most notable thing in the further link regarding 'homosexuality and the Bible' is where its said that despite trying to engage in dialogue about it with homophobics, yet STILL they remain rigid in their beliefs............to me that tells us EVERYTHING about the Bible, including all so-called holy books with their dogma writ in stone. All thaT IS agreat danger for the mind, because for some reason, people who cling to hate-filled prejudices due to reading the BGS, even when evidence is later shown to show them the fallacy of the words, they STILL wont budge

so...out with the books is what i say--when they do that.

what mythology really meant was song, and direct experience
For the Goddess (not the 'God') the 'son' was Her Lover. was the hallucinogenic sacrament CELEBRANTs wout eat/drink so as to RESOLVE rigid mindsets, and to integrate OPEN bodyminds. So one would become more intimate with community and Nature.
NOT live a life of closedminded rigid decaying hate due to dry, literalist, hypocritical READINGs of divisive myth

 

It didn't cover it entierly but most of it. The "water", mud, insects, blood, and whatever that rained down on earth that day, 5000 years ago, came from the place where the Sahara desert is now. That part of the world was dematerialized and ascended to the outer atmosphere and then rained down on earth for an "eternity" (the number 40 in the Bible means eternity, it's not any precise number)

But you don't want to believe in the flood event because you're so proud of yourself.

If man would have been unable to sin he couldn't have had any free will. If God makes everything perfect for you, how free are you?

I tell you... man will attain perfection but it takes time. Time exists only in the mind, in the spiritual world, everything has already happened.

 

Hi Yorda,

"However... there is many records of the global Flood"

There are records of a big flood about 10,000 years ago. There are no records of a flood that coverered "all the high mountains" in the world as Genesis claims. (Genesis 7:17)

There are certainly no records that show that Angels had intercourse with "the daughters of men" and produced a race of giants. (Genesis 6:2-3).

There is much evidence that shows that the flood story was borrowed from previously written Mesopotamian stories. The mountain that Noah ends up on was in Mesopotamia rather than Cannan for example. There are remarkable similiraties between previously written Mesopotamian stories and Genesis.

"The "water", mud, insects, blood, and whatever that rained down on earth that day, 5000 years ago, came from the place where the Sahara desert is now."

There are fossils of dinosaur nests with the eggshells in the nests. If the flood killed the dinosaurs the eggshells would have been scattered. I don't think you'll be able to support the flood story based on known geology as there is much in known geology that counters it.

 

The flood occured about 5000 years ago, and like I said, it didn't cover "all" of earth. Do you know that 5000 years ago was also the time when the extreme dryness of Sahara Began?

Oh, I can tell you a lot about that. Those "angels" were an ancient human race greater in size, knowledge and love than we, the crossbreeding of their race and another primitive human race, which also lived on earth at that time.

These spiritually awakened people were equal to God, and thus gained the name Sons of God. The crossbreeding between the two races caused various mutations. I'm sure you've heard of one-eyed giants and such. Some gained only the great size of the sons of God, not their mind, so they became feared tyrants.

Not all of the descendants were giants, of course, because they bred with the primitive humans (which were small in size, and naturally, smaller than us too. I believe they are called Neanderthals), and some gained the size from their mother's side. Now, there were those who gained both the primitive selfish side and the "magical" knowledge of the "sons of God" (or Anak, or Nephilim), and those people (we) caused the flood.

I've heard that the Neanderthals vanished from earth at some point in time, maybe 30000 years ago. I guess that was the time when the sons of God took human wives. They did it so that we would evolve faster, so that the rise from matter would become possible again. They did everything in love, because they were the love itself, and they needn't think about it.

No giants are born today anymore because that evolution has stabilized. Without those people, we'd still be living in the stone age.

The flood was global, so it's natural that there were other people who wrote about it, like the Sumerians. Like I said, the flood is not just in the Bible, but also in other religions, so that backs up its validity even more. You may have heard of Gilgamesh, which was one of the early descendants of the sons of God (like Noah). The sons of God built ships at that time. They were connected to each other. They knew that the flood was coming, because they knew everything.

You should know that the dinosaurs existed millions of years ago, and the flood happened only 5000 years ago, so dinosaurs were most likely already extinct. Dinosaurs were great in size, weren't they? Now you understand why those ancient humans were also giants. Creatures were greater in size because the circumstances were different.

Circumstances will change again, and we will become extinct, and at that time, another human race will once again live among us. Like the ancient "sons of God" ascended to "heaven", so will we, because we have become them. Those are the end times, and they are far away, from human perspective...

 

Yorda,

That is the grestest amount of BS I think I have read in all the posts I have read since joining this site. Part of the world dematerialised? I don't think so. I would love to see your evidence to support this notion, however ridiculous it is.

You're not so proud of yourself to believe in the wally idea that part of the earth dematerialised? Such an event would have a catastrophic effect the world over, assuming the world could survive such an event.

As I understand the origins of the flood story, the red sea was once a fresh water lake, many times smaller than the area it now covers. The high land walls surrounding the 'sea' collapsed and the sea poured in. This dislocated many, MANY people and the event eventually made its way into myth- that there was a world flood.

That there are flood stories in almost every recorded culture has no value. Numerical arguments have no relevance, if they did then we could assume Catholicism to be the right religion. Unless of course there is a religion that has more than 1.1 billion following it- which would then make that the real religion.

Where are the bones of these giant people? Or do they not exist? If dinosaur bones survived the test of time, why did these later giants bones not? One very good reason is because they never existed.

There is no geological evidence for a world flood, let alone the diverse speciation that exists on the world to completely disprove the notion of a world flood. There is nothing at all backing up such an event.

staples

 

Your evidence is in Sahara, that is what is left. Nothing moves there but the sand and nothing sounds there but the wind...

You seem to be afraid of the word dematerialize, maybe because you don't know what it means. But you know that matter is built of atoms, smaller and smaller, eletrical vibrations of energy; waves, 'motion'... These energies can be manipulated in many ways. Ancient people could control them with their mind (with the help of a special iron staff, for example), because the same will that holds the atoms together, makes our hands move, for example. And everything is made of the same thing... different forms of 'waves' and different wavelengths.

People don't know how the Ancient people built the pyramids, and they will wonder how they carved the symbols in the stones, and how they could make the stones so perfect. Because "the son of man" used slaves, they think that the Ancient people also did. They don't know that we dematerialized the core of the stones and then we could easily take away the "unnecessary" parts, as if it was butter. We only set our apparatus to the right depth and width, and the rock dematerializes accoriding to the calculations. This is natural, and easy, if you only know the structure of energy.

But this is only good for wise people, because they also know that love is life and hate is death. One energy can be converted into all other energy forms, it only depends of the structure of the energy.

We can't control that kind of energy with our minds, but later we'll be able to control matter with machines which use the same principal as the ancient Egyptians. By changing the molecular structure of matter, we can make matter come out of light for example, or make matter dissapear, or make the "weight" of things stronger or weaker (antigravity).

(Moses, who was a reincarnated "son of God", used his staff to increase gravity when they walked through the red sea, that's why the soldiers were "stuck on the ground", and since this happened near the sea, the sea opened)

You'll be seeing these kinds of machines later, devoloped by great scientists. Nicola Tesla (1856) already knew how to build such machines. But dematerialization is a very dangerous concept. If we can't control it, and dematerialize one small object, there is no stopping it. It produces a chain reaction in the atoms, and the process continues until everything in that area has been dematerialized.

---

EDIT: A similar thing is the structure of the data in computers. They're all made of 1's and 0's, yet you find so many different forms of "energy"... you find words, pictures, movies, games, "programs", etc... and seem to be able to control these "energies".

It had.

Every religion is right, why else do you think they exist? People are all on different levels, they need a different religion, and some need none.

When I say GIANT, I don't mean like 20 "meters" tall people... I mean max 3 meters. The giants didn't reproduce anymore, so their race was vanishing, 30000 years ago, there weren't many of them left. And they were probably never as spread as this human race. It's possible that they only lived in Africa, at the place where the Sahara desert is now.

 

Hi Yorda,

"The flood occured about 5000 years ago"

There was a big melting of icecaps that caused major flooding about 10,000 years ago that is well documented. Do you have any evidence for a big one 5,000 years ago?

"and like I said, it didn't cover "all" of earth."

According to Genesis "all the high mountains" were covered. Are you saying that Genesis is wrong about this?

"Those "angels" were an ancient human race greater in size, knowledge and love than we, the crossbreeding of their race and another primitive human race, which also lived on earth at that time."

Is there any evidence for such a race?

"These spiritually awakened people were equal to God, and thus gained the name Sons of God."

They were called "elohim" which means "godlings" or "sons of gods". The term is widely documented in ancient Near Eastern writings and refers to devine beings.

" Now, there were those who gained both the primitive selfish side and the "magical" knowledge of the "sons of God" (or Anak, or Nephilim), and those people (we) caused the flood."

Good luck with that! I'm very curious about how "we" caused the flood? Genesis attributes God's anger to an unspecified sin.

"You may have heard of Gilgamesh, which was one of the early descendants of the sons of God (like Noah)."

The Epic of Gilgamesh was written long before the OT and it's safe to say that portions of it were borrowed and used in Genesis.

"You should know that the dinosaurs existed millions of years ago, and the flood happened only 5000 years ago"

How did broken dinosaur eggshells remain in their nests during the "global flood"?

"Now you understand why those ancient humans were also giants."

I don't have a clue but I wish you luck with that.

Your reasoning is most entertaining. I'm guessing that you don't have any evidence to support your arguments but they make for a hell of a good read.

 

Hi Throckmorton,

Documented? I'm not really sure what you mean by "evidence".

No, I wouldn't say that Genesis is "wrong" about that, it's not a history book, you see.

Yes.

They were also called Anak, which means "long neck". They were divine beings, but they were also humans, just like Jesus. And because you know about the crossbreeding, now you know that Jesus was a descendant of that race - he was a son of God.

Because of natural laws, it's still possible that one son of God is born on earth, one who has "royal blood" in his veins. He will be born in different cultures, those who know him will honor him and believe him, but in some parts of the world, people are not ready to understand what he says, they will make fun of him, mock him and kill Him (which means that we kill ourselves - our higher self) Because we ignore our higher self (Christ, also called Horus and many other names, in different religions), we crucify him eternally in matter, on the two girders of space and time.

Truth is one, but it can be told in "thousand" different ways. If you want to be simple, you can say that God became angry because he saw that people were evil, so he was going to exterminate them. Many humans still want to believe in a personal God who can make mistakes and such, so that it would be easier to understand. And this is not wrong, the truth is still behind the symbolism. Then you can also consider the earthly reason for why the rain flooded the earth. There always seem to be many reasons behind things.

No. If a global thing happens, people will tell it to the next generation, and they will pass it on further. They will write a book. It will become a "myth". In another culture, they wrote about it instantly when it happened. The others didn't borrow from them, they just wrote about the same thing, because it was global and they all experienced it.

This is so natural that I can't believe I'm explaining it.

How did they remain in their nests when the other flood came, 10000 years ago? That certainly doesn't surprise me at all.

Yeah... I'm not trying to prove anything I say, I'm merely expressing myself and what I believe.

 

Hey Yorda,

I do know what dematerialise means, that's why I don't believe your story.

You don't think what you are saying is silly? Iron staff?

I don't believe there is a 'will' that holds together atoms, much less the cognative ability to control particles at an atomic level. You and I will just have to disagee, but again, I would love to see where you have any evidence to support even the tiniest fraction of what you claim.

To my knowledge there are very good hypothesis as to how the pyramids were made. All of them not including dematerialisation or ancients, but Eygptians and manual labour.

No, every religion is not right, they exist because people exist.

That should not mean that there was no evidence of such a race left over- like bones.

The time at which you have the ancients dying out was long before the pyramids were made- which you claim they made.

And please, where is your evidence that the sahara dematerialised, then re-materialised in the atmosphere. Such an event like this, if it happened 5000 years ago as you say, would mean the world would not exist in the way it does today.

staples

 

Hi Yorda,

"I'm not really sure what you mean by "evidence".

In this case geological evidence......radiocarbon dating, soil analysis, analysis of the layers of deposits, and all sorts of other data that involves knowledge of geology (I don't know much geology).

" it's not a history book, you see."

I do see! Ancient Near Eastern texts aren't history or science books in the way we think of history or science.

"They were divine beings, but they were also humans, just like Jesus."

You're making this up?

"The others didn't borrow from them, they just wrote about the same thing, because it was global and they all experienced it."

The Biblical flood story is clearly a Mesopotamian story rather than a Canaan (where the patriarchs were) story. The geography is Mesopotamian. The Epic of Gilgamesh was written long before the Bible was and it was written by a more advanced culture than the ancient Hebrews. Culture tends to get passed from more advanced cultures to less advanced cultures.

You aren't basing your notions about the flood stories on any evidence whatsoever are you?

"How did they remain in their nests when the other flood came, 10000 years ago?"

It wasn't a global flood. It was the sea level rising a bit due to global warming.

" I'm not trying to prove anything I say"

That's probably sensible. There are folks on here who would have you for breakfast if you tried to.

 

The iron staff was charged with "willpower", but only people like Moses could charge it. He was a descendant of the divine race. I'm not sure how the staff was made, but It's possible that it was made of gold. The gold was first melted, then it was put into a certain temperature which... something happened then... like if you have a fertilized egg... in the right temperature, it becomes a living being... so I believe the gold also became "living"... this is a bit tumult. The staff was like the Ark of the Covenant in miniature form.

What is it that holds atoms together if it is not the will of magnetism, the will of unification? This world rests entirely on the principle of magnetism. Without that will, evolution, and nothing would be possible. Evolution happens only because there is a will to become greater, to become whole again, to become ourselves. Consciousness is like a magnetic repulsion in mind, it resists us from becoming all-conscious because we choose to be, and defend, our personality.

You don't think it's possible to control particles at an atomic level? How then do the atoms control themselves? Aren't they just an unconscious part of you? Like your heart for example, which you don't control either, except unconsciously. I am an atom as much as I am a human being. There are people in India who can control their heart consciously. This is an advanced (destructive if used wrongly) function so it has been disabled by the creator, but when people advance, they can learn to control their body more precisely.

I didn't mean that the "original ancients" built them, they were built after the flood by the descendants of the ancients who we're the same as the ancients (they were the ancients reincarnated in human form, like Noah, Moses and Jesus for example).

Such an event like this, if it happened 5000 years ago as I say, would mean the world wouldn't exist as it did before the accident. The world was much different before the flood. The flood is also the reason behind the 10 plagues.

 

No, this is very true for me.

Gilgamesh and Moses both experienced the flood and then wrote about it, it's that simple. No borrowing is needed, although it can be good if you want to apply a non-experienced truth to your writings.

Sure I am, I have many reasons to believe what I'm saying!

How do you know this? How can you be sure that what you read is true? Don't you have to experience it yourself, don't you have to "see" it?

Eat this :m:

 

Noah's flood is local or Global?
Did the world have enough water to cover all continents up to the height of hill?

 

Yorda

No, I don't believe an element can take on conscious thought. Even if I did I would recognise this as a seriously weak argument.

It is at this point at which our beliefs diverge diametrically. I do not in any way believe magnetism has a conscious 'will', which you do. Where does this 'will' exist? How do you account for it? How did you even come to believe in it?

On the fact of magnetism?

NO! Magnetism has no will. It just is and does and magnetism is a name we've given to it.

No, evolution occurs because life exists. Each step is a step away from what we once were- not a step towards what we once were.

No, consciousness is rooted in our brains. It is a product of our brains. If it weren't we would remember and perceive everything we ever heard, touched, tasted, or set our eyes upon. I don't believe in a soul, like you obviously do, and again is something we'll have to disagree upon, as I do not believe we are more than the sum of our parts.

Atoms don't control themselves; they exist, much like magnetism. That atoms make me has no inherent value. I am a product of myself, which is made of different types of matter, which is made up on the micro scale of atoms. I am beginning to understand your argument but it is flawed. That I control myself does not mean I control my atoms, which is what I think (emphasis on think) you are essentially trying to argue.

Bingo, you are not. You are a product of human culture and are trapped in its nuances- I think you should let go of the idea that language has any inherent value. Atoms exist to create larger things which you have control over. You don't control atoms in the sense you are thinking, at least, that is not the way I perceive it.

If you are referring to individuals who slow their heart beats down to something around once a minute, you are miss understanding the kind of control they are exerting. The kinds of functions you are talking about are controlled by the 'old' part of the brain, we can to an extent influence the workings of our bodies, but we will never be able to control them. Do some biology is all I can say.

What then is the difference? Please re-read what you posted- "I didn't mean that the "original ancients" built them, they were built after the flood by the descendants of the ancients who we're the same as the ancients"- and tell me there is a difference between the descendants of the ancients who we're the same as the ancients.

And which ancients built the pyramids? Would they not be immortalised for building them? Would there not be some evidence left over of their existence on earth? As far as I can tell there isn't.

No, what I mean is today wouldn't exist. The world would have been left in chaos so great that its effect would have lasted much longer than a mere 5000 years. Society as it is today wouldn't exist. The result of a global flood or dematerialisation as you say would have been catastrophic to the extreme, and the damage it caused would not be repaired for millions of years after the event happened. Your belief in the miniscule amount of years ago that this event happened completely destroys your whole argument, can you not see this?

staples

 

I don't believe magnetism has a 'conscious' will either. You seem to have problem with the word 'will'. Like atoms, animals are not conscius of themselves either. Still they can "will", and do many things, just like atoms. What is will? It doesn't have to be conscious.

What is that makes your hand move? The gravity pulls it down, but you are able to win over gravity, just by "willing". The will must be a great power. You can even levitate for a moment, by 'jumping'. How is this possible, what is it that moves your body. Is it your muscles? No. The will makes the muscles operate, whatever way "I will".

The will is not located anywhere, it stems from the separation of the two poles which you see everywhere in the world. If you "love" someone, where does your will for unification exist? In your mind, and you think your mind is in your brain.

I think that "I", the self, is not "located" in the brain, but when the brain becomes advanced enough, it can connect to the self (which is nowhere, still everywhere). If you have a CD with data, and you break it, the CD (body) no longer has connection with the information (consciousness). It doesn't mean that the information is forever annihilated, the connection between the CD and the information is just broken. The information is not "located" on the CD, the physical data in the CD makes connection possible with the information (the self, the will, the infinite source of energy).

Sure we can learn to control our bodies. You can't write with your toes or play piano, but there are those who can. You're not yet conscious of your separate toes, like with your fingers, but if you concentrate on them, you can awaken them. When you've really advanced, you can even concentrate on a pencil for example, and move it, as if it was a part of your body. Because the same self, the same "will", exists within all things.

"I" didn't wrote this, you're talking and arguing with yourself, with your unconscious part, called 'Yorda'. You can't accept different views because you are not able to accept your infinity. You prefer to be a person instead of everything. Consciousness is repulsion, refusal of reality, the goal, the will of remaining oneself. But in reality, you are me, you are everything. This world is created by you, and you (the self) are the only thing that exists.