Did Jesus really perform miracles?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Saint, Apr 1, 2005.

  1. Saint Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,752
    Sure?
    How can it be?
    Just touch you to heal your disease?
    Chase out demon?

    The gospel is just story with no reliable witness,
    how can i simply believe it ?
     
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  3. cato less hate, more science Registered Senior Member

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    2,959
    In my opinion:

    No.

    I would bet my soul on it.

    No, that is impossible.

    There are no such things as demons.

    You can't.
     
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  5. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Sure, what's the big deal? The Christian churches use it to hook you in, but they were common in the ancient world. Many ailments were psychosomatic, anyway. Buddhist saints did it all the time. The word for such a healer is Shaman.
     
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  7. Yorda Registered Senior Member

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    2,275
    How can it be?

    There's a natural explanation for every "miracle".

    Just touch you to heal your disease?

    Jesus could control the vibration of the atoms of his body, so he could radiate and transform energies in many ways. People would have died from touching him if hadn't converted the energy to a healing energy. That's why those who touched the Ark of the Covenant died, but Moses didn't die because the vibration in his body was identical to the vibration of the Ark. This is also why the Bible says that Moses' and Jesus' faces became white, shining, glowing... Atoms are "electrical", they can form light, why couldn't a human, if he could control his body perfectly?

    The gospel is just story with no reliable witness,
    how can i simply believe it ?


    I don't know. I just read it and saw that it was true (well... not everything of course) I'm sure you can believe it too, if you're just open and if you really want to. But if you can't believe it, you don't have to.
     
  8. staples disconnected Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    70
    lol,

    Yorda

    You know this how?

    And as for the bible, either humans wrote it or god wrote it. It is therefore full of crap or everything in it is the 100% truth. I think that the bible is one of the most satirical works ever completed by human beings. Very funny. If people had only taken it that way...
     
  9. cato less hate, more science Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,959
    no, you are thinking of The Flash, not Jesus.

    http://www.starnet-database.com/dbase_deo/profiles/flash/flash.html

    I can't believe I not only remembered the powers that the flash had, but was also able to track them down on the net. =]
     
  10. Saint Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,752
    Jesus can calm a storm, just rebukes it!
    Christians say only the LORD of Nature can do it, therefore he is GOD incarnate.

    I attended a few congragations from Charismatic Churches, the pastor on the spot performed Divine Healing to cure tumor,

    I am not sure whether the sick people were actually Conspired with the pastor to pretend this healing??? Do you believe the pastor can heal in the Name of Jesus ?
     
  11. Yorda Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,275
    You're right, he also says in the Bible that he and God are the same. But don't marvel at those miracles, you can do the same, because God lives in all things.

    That's possible, (just like Jesus' diciples did) but today there are many people who fake...
     
  12. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    It's the hidden truth that the mind determines reality, therefore, change the mind, and change reality, that's the trick behind miracles. Without the mind, there is no light or dark, sickness or health, famine or plenty, etc.
     
  13. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,936
    There are only 3 possabilities:

    1. Jesus really was the son of God and could perform miracles
    2. Sick in the head
    3. A Conman
     
  14. kazbadan Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    319
    Davinci code was a nice book, but i prefer the one that was behind it (Templar Revelation -Lynn Pickneet and Clive Prince).

    I dont have the knowledgs to see if the research that they made were scientifically exact or not, but they suggest interesting things: there are some evidences that Jesus was from Egipt. They say too that in that times it was regular to find magicians (magicians like David Coperfield- not like Gandalf or Merlin!) that knew tricks like walking on water for example, and others very similar to miracles realised by Jesus!

    It seems that Jesus was a follower from John Baptist (is that how you spell his name in english) and not the opposite, and maybe Jesus was a liar trying to keep the leader status for him.

    If you read that book you will see a different Jesus.

    So, lets resume the possibilitys:
    1- Jesus was able to perform miracles, real ones- in that case we need to find a way to explain it, but before we need to proof that he realised the miracles.

    2- Jesus was a liar or a trickstean, a magician. Wich are the objectives behind such tricks we dont know.

    3- The sources about Jesus life are not real, they are fake. Maybe they are fake with a propaganda objective. Maybe they are fake because people created storys about Jesus and such storys were exagerated.

    I think that these are the major explanations. I bet on 2 and 3.

    I´´ve a strong argument that will prove that christian miracles are fake;"If you believe in your hearth in God you will be able to heal the weakers, to ressurect the dead and be able to speak other languages" In gospells there is something like that writtens some where.
    Well, i see thousands of people believing in God but i see no miracles....maybe God its resting.
     
  15. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
    There are more possibilities:

    4. Jesus really did perform miracles, only we don't understand what a miracle is, it could have been a psychological phenomenon, as opposed to a supernatural one.

    5. Jesus helped people in almost miraculous ways that were exaggerated in later stories.

    6. The stories of miracles were metaphors for spiritual transformation.

    7. Anyone can perform miracles.

    8. The subject performed the miracle, and Jesus was simply a catalyst.


    It's worthwhile to note that Jesus was unable to perform miracles with those that didn't believe he could.
     
  16. Yorda Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,275
    Just ask yourself how you know the things you know. I know the things I know the same way as you know the things you know.

    Truly I tell you... the Bible is written by humans and God... God is the higher self of man... That's why there's some things which are not true and some which are.
     
  17. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
    Why make such a distinction? It might be only 90% crap and 10% philosophical gold.
     
  18. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
    9. The Placebo effect.

    10. The result of intelligence (cutting up the few fish as bait to feed the multitudes- after all, the disciples were fishermen).
     
  19. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
    11. Jesus happened to learn oriental medicine from a passing Buddhist monk.

    12. Those people were going to get better anyway, and Jesus just happened along at on opportune time.
     
  20. kazbadan Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    319
    13- The Gospells are just a romance, a sci-fi novel written by crazy guys that thought:

    "I know, we could write a book about a guy that makes miracles and see how many people we can cheat"

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  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I think your 13 is covered by #3-
    3- The sources about Jesus life are not real, they are fake. Maybe they are fake with a propaganda objective. Maybe they are fake because people created storys about Jesus and such storys were exagerated.
     
  22. kazbadan Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    319
    Jesus its so important for human beings like rocks are important for my nutrition.

    People give too much important to Jesus. He is no one. We dont need Jesus.

    He was not so perfect like that: he had the same tempations like us: Maria MAdalen&Sex.

    He died like a normal person.

    This is what i call hypocrisy: people believe that existed a guy that walked on water, ressurected the dead ones, etc and they dont have proofs for that, but they dont believe in ufos (for example) when we can see lots and lots of evidences and proofs (photos, etc).

    I dont believe in what i am gonna say next but its far away much more easy to believe that Jesus was an Alien from a UFO (this is stupid and i dont believe on that!) than to believe that i could perform such things.

    Besides, just think on this: he was perfect not by his choice neither because of the efforts he made for that (like Budha). He was perfect because God wanted him to be perfect.

    Its more important the backery near my house than Jesus. Backery and Supermarkets sells food that its important for my life. Jesus sold lies!

    Sorry for being so bad guys but i hate hypocrysi and liars. I hate all the things from Christianism:
    -from the past: like these lies (miracles, etc)

    -from the present: for example, Vatican speaks about Jesus love but for the poor, blablabla but they live with expensive cloths in great mansions, while the por pople that they "love" are dying outhere.

    The only Christian (that i can remember) that it was GREAT it was Mother Theresa.

    I must say these things because i am tired. When i speak to colleagues, friends, etc they say "but you m ust believe in something, for shure thatyou believe ina god", yadaya....no!

    Believe in god = to believe that our problems can be solver by a spiritual entity. I believe in my strenghts...not in a "hidden" god that i never saw.

    one example: one day the mother of a friend mine was suffering from a strange diesease (she was apathic, like in almost-comatose state- but not dying). In that time i was christian. I prayed for her and i said "Jesus, you can heal her, i believe on you" (and i was really believing).

    Next day i went too school another colleague sayd "The mother of XYZ (the other friend) died tonight"! Great healing!

    On that day i thought with my rational mind:
    -Possibility number one: God it is bad and a bastard (not very rational thinking

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    )
    -Second Possibility: there is no god.

    I followed the second one and my life changed. Now i dont need to believe in god ´cause i am strong.

    I know that these stuff it is not directly related to miracles, but i think that in some way they are conected and allows me to explain more about my visions on miracles.

    Other point: Budhist dont care about miracles mad by Budha. Maybe they were truth, maybe not.

    In Christianisn, Curch needs to have miracles or else people will "fly out"- whys is that so?

    Is that related in some manner with the essence of the last religion (it has not any essence..its empty)?
     
  23. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
    That's right, you are your own best guru. I doubt Jesus wanted anyone to worship him, in fact didn't he say it was necessary for him to go away? Belief is an addiction.
     

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