Does God smite/help?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by water, Mar 17, 2005.

  1. water the sea Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,442
    Does God smite/help?


    Note that all questions pertain to life on earth.



    Part one:

    Does God smite you for your iniquities?
    What does such a punishment look like?

    Does God help you if you ask Him?
    What does such help look like? What does He do -- does He do exactly what you've asked, or ...?



    Part two:

    Does God smite your enemies?
    Does God smite your enemies in order to help you?

    If you believe in God, is God on your side and if you ask Him to smite your enemy, God does it because you asked?

    Or does God, if you are on His side, smite your enemy in the name of His justice?
    And if you benefit from God's justice this doesn't automatically mean that God did something for you because you asked so, but because He did what was just?


    There is a popular notion of the way God supposedly interferes: "Don't fuck with me, because God is with me, and He will smite you if you want to harm me!" Is anyone entitled to claim this as true?
    Can we, to use the same principle, say that God protected the Israelites and punished their enemies because of them?


    If you believe in God -- are you on His side, or is He on your side?


    Will God interfere with other people's free will in order to protect a believer?
     
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  3. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,833
    God has given people laws, and Jesus showed us the intent of them - how we punish or forgive people is up to us. God does not let sin go unpunished, but His punishment comes in the context of people's relationship with Him - forsaking God means we do not lay our sins at Christ's feet, and it will keep weighing on our lives and pulling us down. If we do accept God's forgiveness, there is no punishment left - and we can see hardship in a more productive light:
    Hebrews 12:5-7
    And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son.” [Prov. 3:11-12]

    Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?

    There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment (1 John 4:18). For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship (Romans 8:15)​
    I think God's help comes from the same source. He has already helped us by giving us this understanding of suffering. His help most often comes in making ways and opening doors for us where we thought there could be no hope, in providing us the comfort of His presence and the guidance of living within His will. If we plant ourselves in his garden, He will take care of our growth, however painful our past or our future might be. And because pruning is a painful process especially at first, it might be interpreted as rather harsh "punishment". But Jesus puts it this way:
    John 15:1-3
    “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes (cleans) so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.​

    No... Our enemies are also in God's hands. While we were God's enemies, He did not treat us with unforgiving hatred and contempt. Although He could have left us without hope, He responded with love and devotion. He came as a servant, not an earthly king to fight our private wars. His justice does not repeat itself for every person's convenience, but applies eternally.
    Luke 6:27
    “But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you."

    Romans 12:19
    Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay”.​
    So, again: We are left to practice justice to satisfy God's purposes, knowing that we are judged likewise; to forgive as we have been forgiven, not neglecting mercy in order to satisfy ourselves. The worst thing one human being can do to another is to deny him God's love and forgiveness, and because God knows it, it is also the worst thing one could put on one's spiritual CV.
    When Jesus prayed for his disciples, He said something interesting:
    John 17:14-16
    I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.​
    God's protection is generally not against flesh and blood, but against that which would take you away from Him. It is not a temporal security, as someone who wishes to keep his life for himself might wish for (although it might take that form), but an eternal security, leaving us to put our lives in His and mankind's service, without reserve. The world is a harsh place, and enemies who have no respect for God might pursue your life relentlessly as they did David's. But God is not our weapon for revenge, our excuse for hatred, or our insurance against injustice or hatred.
    John 16:33
    “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”​
    If we are on the side of love and justice, we are on God's side. But that does not put us above Him, to order Him around. He puts us in the powerful position to triumph over things and people that would otherwise have enslaved us, but not in a way that would make us seem powerful.

    Forgive the long quote, but there really is no better way to put this. Paul already addressed most of these issues long ago:
    Romans 8:31-39
    What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all -–how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died -- more than that, who was raised to life -- is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written:
    “For your sake we face death all day long;
    we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

    No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2005
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