is allah shaking his head in disbelief?

With all the turmoil going on in iraq, muslims killing muslims (in their own places of worship of all things!) I was wondering how allah looks upon these attrocities. Are these suicide bombers in heaven sitting on the right side of allah with their 40 virgins? And what if they meet the ones that they blew up? Are there any hard feelings?

 

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Yes indeed - such is the immense shortsightedness of Islam. Thank Allah, the merciful, for atheism.

 

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god only knows what on earth its all about.

 

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Again, this principle applies: "Just because someone says that he has done something in God's name, this does not mean that God has ordered it, or that God approves it."
We do not know God's mind, so we can't say what exactly He thinks on the whole matter. Assuming we do know it, is hypocrisy against God.

 

It would seem that Allah has no real interest in the matter, as there appears to be no supernatural intervention, which of course would be easy for an omnipotent god like Allah.

Allcare.

 

in the name of ANY god, it is utter obscenity and evil

 

Nah Duendy, it's only obscene and evil when it's someone elses god. You never noticed that?

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yes i know what you mean 'with 'God' on my side' etc, but i said 'ANY' god and i mean that

 

If God doesn't interfere (or at least it seems that He doesn't), this doesn't automatically mean that he has no interest, or that He is not omnipotent.
People have free will, and what they do in the name of that is -- not for God to decide.

 

Hi water,

But then if Allah is omnipotent and has an interest, and yet does not intervene, or even seems to intervene, what purpose does Allah serve in this scenario, and in life in general?

Allcare.

 

That's just it: we'd like God or gods to serve a purpose - our purpose!

 

The terrorists may feel they do Islam (and therefore Allah) a service... hopefully (they admit it is entirely up to God to decide). But it merely repeats what happened during the first 300 years of Christianity (and even many places today):

John 16:2-3
They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me [Jesus].​

Yes, they know of God's justice, his righteous anger and His absolute sovereignity, but they have not acknowledged His grace through Christ - they do not know God's mercy and the forgiveness that promises them life - so some may feel compelled to earn it by such "complete" sacrifice and obedience to Him. Others have more faith in His love - and in showing it.

 

Once again, muslims using the word "Holy" as an excuse to kill others. I wonder how many times they have done that?

 

its not only muslims guilty of that.

 

Well, I was simply suggesting that muslims have done these type of things like ever since Islam was formed. Well christians once or twice.

 

Jenyar,

Absolutely – that’s why we invent gods.

And this is the Christian invention of a god that serves our purpose – the overwhelming human desire to survive and achieve immortality.

 

The existence of need does not automatically make its satisfaction "invented". You might as well say that we have an overwelming need to reproduce, so we "invented" sex. The fact of the matter is that we have a "sense of eternity" which combines naturally with our survival instincts. But simply inventing gods doesn't satisfy this need. This is easily seen by the revulsion people express at the notion of being judged by God. If everything is simply "natural", why does our "natural" sense of justice conflict with our "natural" wish to achieve immortality? Like I said somewhere else: what exactly is it that we'd like to "survive"? Here is a God who doesn't serve our personal agendas, and He gets rejected because the obviously false ones are invented?

 

IF it is muslims against muslims or muslims against any other there is a punisment for all these sins

Who said those sucide bombers are sitting on the right side of Allah with 40 virgins

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Jenyar,

Agreed although I’d replace “need” with “desire”. But while there are some needs and desires that can be satisfied there are others that cannot. For example I have a desire to visit Mars but that cannot be satisfied at the moment. Most people tend not to want to die and many hope that there is something beyond death. At this time there is no way to satisfy that hope/desire/wish. But many will not accept no for an answer and insist on a solution whether one is available or not. This is where we invent fantasy solutions to satiate our hopes, except that many of us can see the difference between baseless wishful thinking and what is real.

Fantasy concepts of gods and souls and numerous variations and definitions have been invented over time to satisfy these primeval instincts to survive. Unfortunately these imaginary solutions simply aren’t real.

No we don’t. That is simply our primeval instinct for survival – pure and simple. It is what has made us a successful species within this evolutionary paradigm.

Yes exactly – the need to survive has never been satisfied – people still die. Inventing gods only gives some a sense of satisfaction for those who are prepared to be deluded or are simply gullible.

It is still only our primeval survival instinct. I don’t see any need to imagine anything else.

Not being dead seems like kind of a nice thing to me.

But yes he does. Christianity is identical to virtually every other religion – it entails following a set of rules and if you obey them then you will be rewarded with eternal life in paradise. Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. all have this same underlying structure. All promise a solution to that overriding primeval human instinct to survive – to cheat death. But they are all based on fantasies – none are real and none can deliver.

 

One of the problems with the concept of invention is that it gravely clashes with the way we understand evolution.

For example, to say early flowers "invented" (or developed, to get down to terms that are more appropriate for floral logic) colourful blossoms in order to attract insects to pollinate them, so that they could prosper more efficiently -- this is a helter-skelter of bad logic and wishful thinking.

To say "they developed ... in order to ..." is to assume they somehow "knew" what they want, what to do and what consequences this would have. This is nothing else but implying intelligent design.

To say humans *invented* God/gods is to imply humans knew in advance what exactly they wanted, and exactly what consequences their invention would have -- to "satisfy a need".

But nothing is ever invented from scratch, nothing is ever fully new. An invention is a reconceptualization of what already is known, or of what already exists.
To say humans inevnted God/gods is to say they did it overnight -- overnight they came from having no God/gods to having God/gods. Argue thus, and you are actually in effect arguing for an existence of God/gods that came from somewhere else, a something so new and foreign as a space ship.

Argue, on the other hand, that humans developed, over thousands of years, the concept of God/gods, and you can't use the term "invented" anymore.

The concept of invention puts the phenomenon in question in a time perspective that is very short.
Accounting for a longer time period, you have to use the concept of development.

Use the concept of development, and you can't claim the concept of God/gods to be illusionary, as at each point in the process of development, the concept (as it was at that stage) was rational to the already existing knowledge.

To say God/gods are invented is the same as to say that suddenly, from one generation to another, there appeared ferns with colourful blossoms.

On what grounds do you think that "the overwhelming human desire to survive and achieve immortality" is our purpose?