FOOTSTEPS A poem....

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by cosmictraveler, Mar 12, 2005.

  1. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    FOOTSTEPS

    One night a man had a dream. He dreamed he was walking along the beach with the LORD. Across the sky flashed scenes from his life. For each scene, he noticed two sets of footprints in the sand; one belonged to him, and the other belonged to the LORD.

    When the last scene of his life flashed before him, he looked back at the footprints in the sand. He noticed that many times along the path of his life there was only one set of footprints. He also noticed that it happened at the very lowest and saddest times in his life.

    This really bothered him and he questioned the LORD about it. "LORD, Thou saidest that once I decided to follow Thee, Thou wouldest walk with me all the way. But I have noticed that during the most troublesome times in my life, there is only one set of footrpints. I don't understand why when I needed Thee most, Thou wouldest leave me."

    The LORD replied, "My precious, precious child, I love you and would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of footprints, it was then that I carried you."

    .




    I don't believe in God but I do enjoy good poetry whenever I can find it. This is a nice one for those who believe in God and I hope that you can enjoy it.
     
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  3. ellion Magician & Exorcist (93) Registered Senior Member

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  5. water the sea Registered Senior Member

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    Lovey dovey and everything -- but there is an inconsistency here that makes the poem much less persuasive:

    If it is true:

    P1: For each scene, he noticed two sets of footprints in the sand; one belonged to him, and the other belonged to the LORD.

    I1: The man knew which set of footprints is his, and which is from the Lord.


    P2: He noticed that many times along the path of his life there was only one set of footprints. He also noticed that it happened at the very lowest and saddest times in his life.

    I2: If he saw only one set of footprints, and I1 is true, he also knew whose set of footprints it was -- whether it was either his own or from the Lord.


    P3: This really bothered him and he questioned the LORD about it. "LORD, Thou saidest that once I decided to follow Thee, Thou wouldest walk with me all the way. But I have noticed that during the most troublesome times in my life, there is only one set of footrpints. I don't understand why when I needed Thee most, Thou wouldest leave me."

    I3: But here, he plays dumb and does as if he couldn't tell WHOSE footprints there are that he saw. If P1 and I1 are true, then P3 is not a fair statement.


    P4: The LORD replied, "My precious, precious child, I love you and would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of footprints, it was then that I carried you."

    This statement is true when P1 and I1 are not true.
    Otherwise, it is redundant.



    I don't mean to bash out of some spite -- but texts that are to strengthen people in their faith, or even to make them to believe at all, should not have such obvious cognitive inconsistencies. It's bad logic.


    The desire to bring across a certain ethical principle should not simply be allowed to wallow in sentimentalism.


    * * *
    Here's one, very sentimental, but the metaphor is consistent
    http://members.tripod.com/~rosemck1/touch-of-the-masters-hand.html
     
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  7. Woody Musical Creationist Registered Senior Member

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    It was just somebody's dream. Have you ever had a dream interpreted by someone that knows what they're doing?

    Here's the opening line to the dream forum:

    You are entering a mysterious and fascinating world of dreams where the rules of reality do not apply

    Dream Forum

    I have a recurring dream:

    I dream that my college degrees are declared null and void, because upon review of my academic history, I did not have all the necessary prerequisites to enter college. I argue with a school board, and point out that I not only graduated from college but had highest honors. Surely I don't need to go back to grade school, I argue.

    This is all to no avail, and the school board requires me to enter grade school once again. So I go to class as a 52 year old man, and sit with kids that are barely teenagers. We just sit around the classroom and don't learn much of anything. I get in my car and drive away. I continue going to class and nobody learns anything. What does this dream mean?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2005
  8. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    Woody: That statement doesn't really work. I interpret dreams, as does some mystic fool down the road. My profession deals with the human mind - and thus dream interpretation has direct correlation to that. The mystic fool on the other hand will interpret dreams in much the same way he'd interpret tarot cards - i.e complete make believe.

    As a result, the interpretation is dependant upon the person interpreting it. You could even interpret your own dreams if you wanted.

    I assume however, that when you say "knows what they're doing", you're actually talking about someone who works in a scientific field as opposed to a mystical one?

    Further to which: it wasn't someone's dream, it's just a lame attempt at a poem.
     
  9. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    Woody: I have a recurring dream:

    I dream that my college degrees are declared null and void, because upon review of my academic history, I did not have all the necessary prerequisites to enter college. I argue with a school board, and point out that I not only graduated from college but had highest honors. I don't need to go back to grade school, I argue.

    This is all to no avail, and the school board requires me to enter grade school once again. So I go to class as a 52 year old man, and sit with kids that are barely teenagers. We just sit around the classroom and don't learn much of anything. I get in my car and drive away. I continue going to class and nobody learns anything. What does this dream mean?
    *************
    M*W: Interesting dream. Actually, I've had a similar recurring dream. I have already earned my postgraduate degrees, but I find myself back in an unfamiliar high school in some mountainous state. I attend classes, but I can't remember where some of my classes are, like I'm lost. In every recurring dream, I wise up and tell myself that I don't have to stay there -- I've already graduated from high school. They can't make me stay in high school! So I get in my car and drive around the mountains. Strangely, that's where my dream ends. I usually have to drive around many busy freeways, and then I wake up. It's a frustrating dream like I'm spinning my wheels for nothing.
     
  10. Woody Musical Creationist Registered Senior Member

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    SL,

    This is how the story began:

    I believe there is a science behind dream interpretation, and dreaming is the mind's way of dealing with unresolved issues.

    So what does my recurring dream mean, if anything?
     
  11. ellion Magician & Exorcist (93) Registered Senior Member

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    both dreams seem to have the same theme of needing to prove your intelligence. like there is no value placed on what you have already worked for and earned so you need to re-earn it somehow. i wont speculate further as the two dreams go in seperate directions, beside i may be wrong.
     
  12. mis-t-highs I'm filling up Registered Senior Member

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    of course theres a science, it's called Psychology, in M*W case her recuring dream probably happens when someone is questioning her veracity, but in your case it's most likely true, (just a little humour) it more than likely the same reason.
     
  13. duendy Registered Senior Member

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    d))))That could mean this forum where many are possibly younger than you, and you have to explain your belief, and get challenged, and 'shaken' sometimes?
    Of course, that is my interpretation. one's dream are very personal. although i may intuit stuff, all the unique nuances etc are for you to explore
     
  14. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    Well there's several different angles with which to explore it.

    One interpretation would be that during the sleep the soul attends classes on the 'inner planes', (spiritual realm), so dreams about being in a classroom would be interpreted as reflecting 'spiritual learning' experience. If that was the case, the dream could certainly signify that your spirituality is suffering, or not getting anywhere even though you consider yourself to be an A grade student in it. In this instance the school board would be god telling you you have more work to do. You don't seem to want to and then end up with people that you consider below you, (it's seen in the "52 year old man with a bunch of teenagers).

    Actually, now that I've mentioned all of this, I shall just briefly substantiate it for you:

    On the 'How is jesus the son of god' thread, you have just recently written that you would personally just give up on atheists, and indeed had a chat with god saying he should aswell - to which he told you otherwise. You concluded in that post that you don't know whether god wants you to be on this forum or not, and it's lucky you're not god because you'd just send them to hell etc etc etc.

    You explained how it is "pointless" for you to explain anything to them, and that you can't stop them. (This would be shown by the 'sitting in a classroom learning nothing with a bunch of teenagers, [which would be the atheists], and the 52 year old man, [the spiritually superior])

    So, we should agree that it is generally a feeling of getting nowhere with something you personally consider yourself competent in.

    Let it be known that the classroom signifying "spiritual learning" is the more mystical approach to dream interpretation. As you know, I have zero belief in souls or anything slightly mystical. However, the interpretation certainly works. Of course, it is always handy to have as much information as possible. Do they tell you, or do you know what lesson exactly you're supposed to need to redo? What do the kids look like, what do they do exactly, what kind of car etc etc..

    Of course we could also look towards another explanation:

    Dreaming of children often relates to the inner emotional needs of the person dreaming. A longing for the past and another chance to fulfil things you didn't quite manage to fulfil. The dream is education based, so showing that you missed out on learning something that you long for now.

    Or, we could state that it's something you saw on TV, or that someone else said to you that has sat on your mind and been turned into images when you went to sleep.

    But given the few details I would state that you are in a position where you need to do something you don't particularly want to do, and that the people you have to do it with are in your opinion lesser than you, (in a professional sense). Perhaps you have to go to the wifes family for easter dinner, but you don't particularly want to or like them. That is just one example of how small matters can weigh on the mind and cause dreams that at first glance don't seem even remotely related, but actually tell a bigger story. Of course it always helps to know a bit about the person first - which gives the ability to provide a more detailed and accurate explanation.

    Do me a favour: next time you have this kind of dream write down as much about it as you can, and I'll explore it more.
     
  15. Woody Musical Creationist Registered Senior Member

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    SL,

    Thanks for ther interpretation on the dream.

    Actually, I wouldn't send athiests to Hell -- I said I would just give up on them and let them end up in hell.

    As for the dream about the classroom, I've had it for quite some time. I also have another dream that I dreamed last night. It recurs even more often:

    I dreamed I was in a college classroom taking an exam. One of my favorite college professors was presiding over the exam. The exam had engineering questions on it. I knew I was competent to pass the exam. Near the end of the exam I discovered that I had overlooked several questions that I was capable of answering, but I did not have time to complete the exam. I was going to fail the test, not because of a lack of knowledge, but because I spent too much time answering one or two questions to the best of my ability. I overlooked several other questions that were equally important because I became "too focused." In the dream, The professor, whom I have liked and admired, wasn't going to cut me any slack.

    In reality, I always made "A" grades under him, even when I took a graduate level course in control systems theory. He used my first exam as the solution set for everyone else to go by, because I was the only one to make 100%, though I was an undergrad in a graduate level course. I'd have to say he is one of the smartest people I have ever known. He is PHD mechanical engineer.

    I dream this kind of a dream in many different formats: I can be at a different university, in a different class, etc. etc. -- but the outcome is always the same -- I fail an important test because I wasn't prepared, I was absent from the test, or I ran out of time while taking the test.

    By the way, I took yet another professional certification exam about one week ago. I have been preparing for 3 months. Currently, I am a Registered Professional Mechanical Engineer, a certified quality engineer, and hopefully I will become a certified six sigma black belt statistician.
     
  16. mustafhakofi I sa'id so Registered Senior Member

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    and pray tell us why we need to know this, you may think it make you look intelligent, but it does just the opposite. do you know what the IQ of anyone on these boards are, beside yourself, do you know the educational status of anyone on these boards, no there is a reason for this, we can discern you intelligence by your questions and answer we dont need to know more, it leave you open to ridcule.
     
  17. ellion Magician & Exorcist (93) Registered Senior Member

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    have you tried to tell this mystic fool how to read properly yet?
     
  18. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    ellion: both dreams seem to have the same theme of needing to prove your intelligence. like there is no value placed on what you have already worked for and earned so you need to re-earn it somehow. i wont speculate further as the two dreams go in seperate directions, beside i may be wrong.
    *************
    M*W: Interesting, ellion, thanks for your thoughts. I'm recently retired from the faculty of academic medicine. I am not used to having all this time on my hands, it's true, but I don't think I'm trying to 'prove my intelligence.' I believe that's already been proven in my real world. Perhaps I do feel like I'm not utilizing my credentials anymore, but why dream about high school? Shouldn't I be dreaming about going back to medical school?
     
  19. ellion Magician & Exorcist (93) Registered Senior Member

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    maybe retirement is not what you need right now. you would like to be more active than you are at the moment?

    why would you have to go to high school rather than med?
    i guess that would be a big step backwards. is there some fear of becoming kind of stuck/trapped? even though you know where you need to be, you know how to get there and your happy where you are.
     
  20. water the sea Registered Senior Member

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    That's just it: It's not somebody's dream.
    The poem was written to bring across the message that God loves his children, and that when times are hardest for them, this is when He "carries" them.

    Then the imagery of the footsteps was added to make the plot of the story in which that certain message could be delivered.

    The poem is ideologically much too much transparent as to still be regarded as a dream.

    That's what I think about it.


    No. How do I know that the other person knows what they are doing?

    Personally, I understand my dreams by the emotions in them. That is, when awake, and I remember the imagery of the dream, I also remember how I felt, and how others felt in the dream. And then, as that emotion is identified, I see it immediately connected to something that is happening in my life at the moment. It demands an honesty from me to accept it, and I literally find myself sometimes trying to push it away, while I at the same time know the truth. It's a bit scary sometimes.

    But on the whole, I don't find anything "mysterious" about my dreams. The imagery may be a bit surrealistic (like flying on a bike), but all I have to do is stick to the emotion, "the state of mind", and that consequently makes the imagery clear and explains the surrealism (I used to cycle, had a super fast bike, and it sometimes felt like it didn't touch the ground at all -- and I felt light, so light).
     
  21. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    ellion: maybe retirement is not what you need right now. you would like to be more active than you are at the moment?
    *************
    M*W: I don't feel 'retired,' I just don't have as much to do. I am doing a lot of medical writing, but I miss the patient care.
    *************
    ellion: why would you have to go to high school rather than med?
    i guess that would be a big step backwards. is there some fear of becoming kind of stuck/trapped? even though you know where you need to be, you know how to get there and your happy where you are.
    *************
    M*W: I don't know why I go back to high school in my dreams. High school was not a particularly good time for me because of my shyness, but yes, I felt trapped in high school, and I probably do fear being trapped now! Thanks a lot! It's always better to get the opinion of someone on the 'outside.' I believe you are right!
     
  22. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    The same way you know a plumber knows what he's doing when he fixes a bathroom leak. Sure there will always be cowboys, but trust those in the profession to generally do a half decent job of things. In the case of the mind, feelings, and thoughts, a shrink is certainly more qualified than a "mystic". I mean seriously, has anyone ever asked a tarot reader, palm reader, tea leaf reader, supposed psychic etc what qualifications they have, other than a degree in utter bullshit?

    However, it would be somewhat true to state that you know yourself well, and as long as you're willing to understand and appreciate your inner feelings, your true feelings, then you could probably do as good a job as anyone. The main problem is of course, that people hide and bury their true feelings. It's the way mankind is.
     
  23. Woody Musical Creationist Registered Senior Member

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    Musta said,

    My point here is that I have done about everything I can to provide for my family, and the job market still eludes me. All the certifications, all the degrees mean nothing. I am quite disgusted with the way the corporate system works. I am hard working, conscienteous, intelligent, and creative, but corporate america shuffles me around like damaged goods. Yes, I suppose I am ridiculed by some of them -- I don't fit in because I don't worship power and money like the majority.

    If I could leave it I would. The executives give themselves pay raises for causing us hardship. They get rid of people but the payroll doesn't go down -because the savings go into their own paycheck. They are only thinking three years down the road anyway. They don't care about the companies they work for. All they can think about is denominator management -- compensated like entrepreneurs to do a cost manager's job. Who is going to stop them, the board of directors? Joke Joke Joke.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2005

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