To know God It is sometimes said that God can be known. What does it mean to know God? How can one get to know God? How does one know that one knows God?
I think that to know someone as an individual, a personality, is to know how they know you - how they relate to the things you relate to. That is when we realize what separates and distinguishes us from them and them from everything else. But before we can even begin to know someone that way, we must acknowledge their existence - even if it is only as a vague, unknown entity at first. If God exists, He has existed before you wondered about it; if God speaks, He has spoken before you even thought of listening; If He can be known, He has been known before you started seeking. If He doesn't exist, then we must account for all humanity's desire to seek Him (or explain Him away). In our experience, where there is an natural desire, there is always something that satisfies it - and whether in physical or psychological form, it is just as real as our desire. Scientific enquiry might be one example: we strive to find out because we lack knowledge. We want to satisfy our curiosity, and we are curious because there is more. At the base of our quest lies faith, that reality represents itself, that das ding an sich - the thing itself - ultimately exists. This faith is strengthened by certain successes, things we have come to believe in because they had been satisfactorily confirmed. The same happens in our spiritual quests. When we seek love, meaning, sense, purpose, and God, we must decide whether they correspond to something real, or simply are an absurdity of our situation; an unfinished and unfinishable equation. And when we feel unfinished, guilty, inadequate, we must decide whether we simply are incomplete that way, by nature, or whether we stand in relation to some "tao", or completeness. We only "know" these things from a distance -- not intimately or 1:1. We see their shadows and speculate on their "real" forms. But it is where God chooses to intersect with our lives where we either accept or reject Him. Not at some far-off intellectual place, or enlightened existence, but here, right where we are. A taste of love is enough to make the decision to believe in it or not. A taste of evil is enough to decide whether it's real or not. Or we must say like Marie-Antoinette, "nothing tastes". You will have to weigh all of experience and all of history in your search, because it requires not only your mind but also your heart. Our ability to know God comes from Him, so we don't have to think we have to start from scratch. We didn't start with nothing, like God did, we started with something: life, laws, order, relationships - with God's creation. We are already in some relationship with God: either far or near, but we start taking in information about Him before we are aware of it. Acts 17:27 God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.* * *What does it mean to know God? It means acknowledging Him for who He is, and not for who you'd like Him to be. Personal knowledge and belief will lead to more than just intellectual notice - to love, or hatred; but you will at least know enough to choose. How can one get to know God? By following the directions He gave us to know Him. Israel's God made himself known to them, and you can learn the most by studying the history of how they got to know Him. He told them, "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you" (Jer. 29:13) and we have part of that promise through Christ, according another of promise: Hosea 2:23-24 I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God.'How does one know that one knows God? By measuring yourself by the measurements He gave us. They will also tell you how we deviate from knowing Him.
All gods that are said it is possible to know them. I didn't specify any in particular, so that members of different religions could present their views.
"What does it mean to know God?" When one gets to know and understand oneself (call this self knowing enlightment if you wish), one can decide with humility and honesty whether one needs to know "god". It seems to me, whatever animates the universe, is fundamentally embedded within our "self", and that searching for god beyond the "self" is futile. The answers seem to lie within. I have found that the key to uncovering that knowledge of the "self", lie in acceptance of what is, and discarding of the ego. Allcare.
OK. you ask me this question. I take you by the hand and take you to the wilds of Nature We find a spot that seems right, and i ask you to join me in a lttle preliminary ritual of asking the residing spirits if it's alright we stay.......only good manners after all We settle down for a bit, listgen to the natrual sounds. we have brought some instruments including tambourine, drum and flute A pour some special drink into a cup and offer it to you. you, knowing you can trust me drink. and i tell you that soon you wont only KNOW god but will become ENTHUSEd with hir well that is how earth religious people 'knew' god. they beCAME him......'he' reporesenting diverse modes and capacities including Nature Herself! anything else is...words words words and also meditation meditation meditation
To the mentally ill, drug addicts and 'life inept'. It means you're either mentally ill, doing drugs or 'life inept'. By becoming mentally ill, start taking drugs or just be 'life inept'. How does a mentally ill person or junkie know he's the reincarnation of Merlin the wizard? It goes to show not all is right with the brain. 'Ill' people "know" what they know, even though it isn't true.
What is this truth you're talking about? How do you know who is Crazy and who is not? Don't you think you have to be Crazy, to understand? What does your views have to do with the Crazy person? Isn't everything relative, even the truth?
Snakelord, How incredibly narrow-minded you must be to put it in such terms. Water, Your questions keep getting harder and harder to give a simple answer to. I think one of the most important things is, to know what god is not. You seem to have a feel for that side of it, and it is just as valid a path, whatever it takes you through, as any person's concrete ideas of knowing what God is. Those ideas seem to change over time anyway, while the ideas of what God is not seem to stay the same for me.
What truth? That the man who claims he used to be Merlin the wizard does indeed have something wrong with his brain? It's my profession. I get paid a lot of money to say who is crazy and who isn't. So.. to understand a lunatic you'd have to be a lunatic? Or to understand a serial killer you'd have to be a serial killer? Although you will find sayings such as "to catch a monster you must become one", and other such things, the answer I would give to you is no. You don't need to be in their position to understand there is something wrong with them. ? No. pharmaco/shrink pseudoscience dogma? Lol ok. Most of the (A) class drugs, which is exactly why they're (A) class. Unable to cope with position or being in life. Creating grandiose father figures to replace the feeling of loneliness and abandonment that a person feels many times in their life. Oh my apologies. I saw a forum full to the brim with people giving their opinions, and so decided to give my professional opinion. I truly believe in equality, and was just excercising my rights. I'm sorry, was this the best attempt at refutation that you could manage? C'mon, even Jenyars highly uneducated: "knowledge is not worth much without understanding", was better. Still, didn't expect much more from you.
So... what's the price of sanity? Having faith in a God who has been believed in for thousands of years by millions of people is hardly the same as inventing an imaginary friend at 6. Can you really see no difference between rational faith and delusion?
Jenyar, Your argument is a classic logical fallacy – Argumentum ad Populum. The fact that a large number of people believe something still doesn’t make it true or a rational choice. For example pretty much everyone on the planet for thousands of years believed the world was flat. The idea of a god is still an entirely imaginary concept with effectively no difference to a 6 year old who invents an imaginary friend.
Jenyar: Having faith in a God who has been believed in for thousands of years by millions of people is hardly the same as inventing an imaginary friend at 6. Can you really see no difference between rational faith and delusion? ************* M*W: With religion, the difference is that the "imaginary friend" has been created for you. Since when did faith become "rational?" Rationality is something that can be proven as truthful. Religion is not a rational concept. It's all based on delusion, and "for thousands of years," believed "by millions of people," does not make their beliefs rational.
I think it's only possible to understand oneself. Like Paul said in the Bible: 'if we want to know the mind of God we must have the mind of God'. But of course, if we truly understand ourselves, we understand everyone and everything, since we're all alike, and the self is the same inside all things. I love this persian/arabian proverb... or whatever. He who knows not; and knows not that he knows not, is a fool - shun him. He who knows not; and knows that he knows not, is a child - teach him. He who knows; and knows not that he knows, is asleep - wake him. He who knows; and know that he knows, is wise - follow him.
Not at all. Let's not forget that the creators of those beliefs knew about as much of the world/universe as 6 year olds do - and as they have progressed more, and as societies have changed those beliefs have changed to suit. It remains now simply as a desire for man to be more than what he is, for him to feel 'more at home' with his worthless little life, and slightly more important than he's ever going to actually be. However, I am interested to hear you rationalise how belief in an imaginary sky being and belief in an imaginary friend are any different. Tell you what: I hereby give you the chance to explain to me how belief in a god/devil/heaven is any more rational than belief in leprechauns, mermaids, aliens, Eldorado, Atlantis, or the secret chambers of moogle mountain. Go for it. So far your only argument seems to be that: "well, lots of people have believed in it", which is the most utterly worthless attempt at rationalisation that anyone can come up with. ---------------------- The fact of the matter is that people have problems. All of us. It is an inescapable reality. When it comes down to it, people deal with their problems in many different ways. Some will turn to alcohol, some will commit suicide, and some will start praying to the clouds. You're probably aware that the majority of religious people, (unless born into it), will say: "I found my faith after [insert really bad experience here]". Religious belief is a scapegoat - much like the millions of other avenues of escape that we as humans are prone to take when things get a little too much. While religion might be more successful at diverting the mind from it's problems, it is not made anymore 'real' because of it. It's no different to someone worshipping a leprechaun - which you might consider irrational, but to him is completely 'normal'. So what problems does religion aim to conquer? To find that out one must look to the main principles of the chosen religion. If we were to look at christianity what do we see? 1) You're special 2) You're loved 3) You'll be reunited with your family 4) You'll live forever - be loved forever, be with your family forever, and be special forever. Oh and that you'll never have to see a naughty person again, nor will you ever have pain, illness, or suffering. What do you think it's compensating for? I'm not exactly bothered about political correctness. Nowadays you can't even say "postman" without some nutcup having a go at you. I consider it petty stupidity at best. I also have very little interest in politics in general. Bush is just another human being who does what he, and his advisors think is best. It really doesn't matter who agrees with it. I do care, otherwise I wouldn't bother doing it, and nowhere did I even hint at not caring. My statement was merely that you don't have to be mentally ill to realise that someone else is. No disrespect, but I didn't set the wage trends. The fact is that many people are aware they have problems and are happy to pay x amount to speak to someone about them. A lollipop costs 5p because nobody is willing to pay £10. If there's a demand for things, the price goes up. I do not control that. List what? (A) drugs? I'm pretty certain you could find a list of most commonly abused drugs at your local clinic. Still it's lucky we know about drugs. Could you even imagine the days when people did not know much about drugs or their effects and saw all kinds of weird shit? I mean seriously, imagine several thousand years ago.. Some poor dude stuck in a desert dying of thirst. He cuts open a cactus and drinks the water from it - which is actually melanin.. then the poor dude starts tripping and sees all kinds of "space aliens" and "gods". He then decides to write a book and some halfwitted nincompoop several thousand years later believes the guy was telling the complete truth. Oh wait.. you thought people only started using drugs from 1960 onwards right? Sure, whatever pleases you. You're probably one of these women that shouts equality at your husband all day long, and then when he says: "mow the lawn yourself", you forget all about equality and say: "but that's a mans job". But my stance on equality has no bearing on the fact that there are mentally ill people, lunatics and crazy people. Well, that line wasn't to you, but nevermind.
