Jesus is back! and she's chinese

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by mustafhakofi, Mar 8, 2005.

  1. mustafhakofi I sa'id so Registered Senior Member

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  3. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    From the sect's manifesto:
    7) "How to be Successful at Spying:
    i) As many denominations oppose bearing false witness, we should try our best not to let people know we are lying, although for the sake of our work we do not speak the truth. (Overseas Missionary Fellowship)​
    And this isn't a new problem:
    Galatians 2:4-5 This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might remain with you.​
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2005
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  5. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    All religions thrive and grow in the presence of the gullible and ignorant. But the idea of a Chinese female Jesus is wonderfully bizarre.
     
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  7. Raithere plagued by infinities Valued Senior Member

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    "I was dizzy. I was confused. He knew the Bible so well," says Sister Hong.

    "Yet by targeting Christian believers it is flourishing"

    I find it particularly interesting how the Christian belief system lends itself to the victimization of its membership by a bizarre array of cultist indoctrination.

    Adherence to authoritarian arguments, heavy weight given to anecdotal evidence, atrophied critical thinking skills, and general gullibility. It's like AIDS for the brain.

    ~Raithere
     
  8. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    "He said the Jesus of the Bible is the old one."​
    Anybody who believes that doesn't even have a rudimentary grasp of the Bible or Christianity. The article confirms this:
    Without strong doctrinal leadership, it's a prescription for heterodoxy. "I'm not sure that most rural Christians are well enough grounded in Christianity to even know they're in a sect," says Daniel Bays, a historian of Chinese Christianity at Calvin College in Michigan.​
     
  9. Raithere plagued by infinities Valued Senior Member

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    Indoctrination is one type of defense but it's still rather weak. Trained to submit to authority it is rather easily usurped. I would think that charismatic sects would prove themselves very likely victims (it would probably make an interesting study).

    Of course, the development of critical thinking skills is a double edged sword (though one that I favor), the authority that has the chutzpah to train its members in skepticism better make damn sure to be honest.

    ~Raithere
     
  10. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    I think such studies have been done. But remember we're talking about simple peasants who may have found in authentic Christianity a recourse from oppresion and authoritarianism. But this sect doesn't emphasize Christian principles, it exploits their sense of indignity and justice in the name of Christianity:
    That, plus the sect's insistence that China is "disintegrating from within," appeals to peasants, many of whom are poorly grounded in Christian principles and are angry at a government that has failed to raise their incomes or curb corruption.​
    In the West, it might adopt tactics similar to Mormonism. According to the sect's basic teachings:
    "God’s character, work-style, place of work and his name will change. No wonder it is difficult for people to accept God’s work in the new era. At the end, God has come in the flesh again and brought the Kingdom Era and finished the Grace Era."​
    Good point.
    1 John 4:1
    Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.​
     
  11. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    She'll be hauling night soil in mongolia before the year's out.
     
  12. alain du hast mich Registered Senior Member

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    hehe, racism and sexism all in one thread title

    whats wrong with a chinese female messiah?
     
  13. VossistArts 3MTA3 Registered Senior Member

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  14. fahrenheit 451 fiction Registered Senior Member

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    there are 34,000 different christian sect, so one more aint going to make much difference.
     
  15. Raithere plagued by infinities Valued Senior Member

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    Hmmm... a religious and political radical in a period of civil oppression. Reminds me of someone.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Religion always flourishes in oppressive societies. The best way to get rid of religion is to make the society as free and happy as possible. The best way to strengthen it is to make sure the populace is under some form of oppression. This is why religions almost always attempt to influence governments into having strict civil codes, invent wars, etc.

    I'm confounded that you appear to be using this as a criticism.

    Luke 16: 21-22 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.

    Luke 11:52 "Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering."

    Matthew 16:12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

    Revelation 14:8 And another angel, a second one, followed, saying, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality."

    Sounds exactly like what Jesus would do to me.

    ~Raithere
     
  16. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    If they are just doing what Jesus did, why do they say "the Jesus of the Bible is the old one"?

    Jesus was not inciting people against the Pharisees. After all, the Pharisees were the heroes of the faith, models of perfection to look up to. Jesus exposed their hypocrisy, the bad "yeast", but confirmed their laws. And when they tried to catch him being politically subversive:
    Matthew 22:17-21 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”
    But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, “Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?”
    “Caesar's,” they replied.
    Then he said to them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.”​
    Jesus did not prey on people's indignity, He told them what was right. Love of money, selfishness, hypocrisy -- these were the things He warned them against. If that was what this sect was interested in, they would not have needed another "messiah". In fact, like the Jews who rejected a messiah who wouldn't overthrow the Romans for them, they seem to have their own political agenda in mind.

    And Rev. 14:12 says "This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus", not "this requires subversive action and a new messiah".
     
  17. Raithere plagued by infinities Valued Senior Member

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    Don't know, I'm not privy to her agenda. I'm just pointing out the similarity.

    He most certainly was. That he referred to the same laws is incidental, he describes a drastic revision in the interpretation of those laws. He repeatedly berated them and undermined their authority.

    Matthew 15: 12-14 Then the disciples came and said to Him, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?" But He answered and said, "Every plant which my heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted. "Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

    They tried to catch him up against Roman authority but he was not challenging Rome. Eventually they acted directly.

    I think prey would be too strong a word but he did invoke resentment and he was working against the established authority. The issues I'm addressing are about the political / civic aspects of religion rather than the spiritual.

    Different time, different place, different leader. The focus is different; Jesus seemed to identify the religious leaders as the problem rather than the secular Roman authority.

    This speaks to people already converted.

    ~Raithere
     
  18. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    That's why I'm pointing out that the "similarity" isn't as obvious at first glance, and is after a closer look confirmed to be completely absent.

    It's everything but incidental! The "drastic revision" was that the laws were more serious than they thought them to be, while they tightened and loosened them as they saw fit. But where they were right He encouraged them, where they were hedging He pointed it out, and when they were wrong, He said so. This is why people were amazed at his authority (Mark 1:22; Luke 4:32).

    Luke 10:25-28
    On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
    “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
    He answered: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
    “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” [after which follow the parable of the good Samaritan]

    Matthew 23:23
    “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices – mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law – justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

    Matthew 5:20
    For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.​

    In Matthew 15, the Pharisees were upset because Jesus contradicted their understanding of ritual purity, when He said "What goes into a man's mouth does not make him ‘unclean,’ but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean’." To Him, 'religion' was not automatically 'faith' (see verse 16-20).

    And the danger is that this cult encourages the same "judgment". Their tract reads: "Jesus came into the world to do much work. But he only finished the work of salvation as a sacrifice and did not sweep away people’s corrupt nature at all" and "If people still stay in the Grace Era they can never put off their corrupted nature or know God’s true nature." This requires a complete redefinition of grace - a return to 'religion' and a departure from Biblical faith. People who are convinced that God failed (or stopped at some crucial point), may feel called to 'help Him along'.

    Same here, although spiritual motivations usually informs people's political understanding. Jesus was resented for emphasising the spirtual aspects of religion at the cost of political/civic authority. People's lust for power and self-righteousness inevitably leads to corruption - spiritually and politically.

    He identified people's attitudes towards God and each other - their hearts - to be the problem, among leaders and laypeople alike. Cults like these, who emphasize religion at the cost of faith, are part of the this problem. A casual glance at their policy of deception is enough to tell us that.

    And your quote from the same chapter does not?
     
  19. Leo Volont Registered Senior Member

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    Has anybody been able to find THEIR Website. From being trashed so often myself, I have learned to recognize the language. If it never seems to feel true when it is directed against myself, then I can infer that maybe this Eastern Lightning Sect may also be suffering from serious misrepresentations.

    Anyway, I was hoping that the New Universal Ecumenicalism would have some leverage point in China. "Eastern Lightening" and their Mary-Like Female Messiah may be just what I have been praying for. I had considered Falon Gong, but ten years ago when that 50 year old guy pretended to be 40, he was able to pull it off, but now that he is 60 and has gotten fat, pastey and wrinkled, his promises for eternal youth come across as bankrupt. So "Eastern Lightning" may be just the Organization that could provide the dynamism to connect China in with the Alliance of the World's Other Higher Religions.

    From what I have read so far, I can discern no absolute Deal Stoppers. They toss out Salvation by Grace just as I do. Perhaps they would have no problem with an alliance with the Catholic Church if the Catholic Church were to renounce paul and every paulist influence.
     

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