The Fate Of Christianity?

Throughout time there has been belief in different gods. Some, have had the similar fate of pop stars, having 15minutes of fame before belief in another god took over the masses. The Sun God for example. Frequently they mirrored our times, the mythical Gods which rival newspaper headlines of the present day. Collectively, they are the components which have fueled, war, confusion, and pain, as well as contentness, peace, and love, all for decades to come. The Gods.

My questions are.

Does anyone know what the oldest viable religion/god is, is it christianity?

Why do you think christianity (or any other powerful religion) has had the staying power/ longevity/ for all these centuries, as opposed to the other mythical gods.. The greek gods for example? Especially if it's not true as many believe?

Lastly do you believe that Christianity will have the same fate as Gods of the past, and eventually wither away, as another God takes over the masses. Why or why not?

 

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Mithras, is one of the oldest gods, this is where xianity came from,
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=40933 but I think the oldest would be Gaia the earth goddess,(mother earth). http://www.pantheon.org/articles/g/gaia.htmlI may be wrong, but you can always google it.
and in answer to your last question, I very much hope humanity disgards all religions, in the future.
the world would be a much much nicer place.

 

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I am fairly certain that hinduism is the oldest surviving religion, then judaism then christianity, buddhism and then islam. I am not certain about hinduism but judaism, christianity and islam all build upon preexisting mythology (like mithraism and the great flood, the moon god, etc.) Religions derive thier staying power by how well thier doctrines allow followers to cope with the world they live in, they need to have a degree of flexibility without too much comprimising of thier doctrine to be successful. Many old religions are experiencing a resurgence because people want to believe yet feel that thier faith (for example christianity) no longer fulfills thier needs.

 

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Religions are not God, they're the knowledge of God - his body. And bodies always die, because they were also born. They follow the rule of nature. Christianity will wither away, just like the ancient religions did (sumerian, aztek, egyptian, greek). All religions come from the truth, they reflect it.

Hinduism is a combination of many other religions. Also now, the 3 leading world religions will merge together to one great religion. People will soon realize that it's the same God behind all religions. Religion is a path for the truth, for those who don't know the truth yet. People will not always believe in a "God", a time will come when people will no longer call "IT" God.

Religions are fashion. They come and go. But there are some things that never die. The source of all religions: the human self.

 

Yorda,

Nonsense. Not all religions are theistic. Religions are collections of hypothetical speculations that attempt to explain life the universe and everything. Their sole source is human imagination.

Gibberish – religions offer exactly the opposite of truth – they are entirely derived from fantasy.

This will only occur when someone can demonstrate that a circle is the same shape as a square.

No – religions merely assert want they want truth to be. They have no basis in reality.

Now that is entirely correct.

 

QUEST EONS,

Early superstitions and religions arose from the human desire to have answers to surrounding phenomena. Without the formal objective techniques we have now defined as science, early man only had his imagination to provide tentative explanations for the world around him. Unfortunately such speculations were quickly mistaken for truth, and hence we have the mess we now see, i.e. objective science is extremely new with respect to the vast history of superstitions.

Religions are based on fantasy concepts, and there are many millennia worth of such fictions. Science on the other hand is entirely based on factual observation – the exact opposite of religion. What seems inevitable is that as scientific knowledge grows and real truth becomes available then religions will necessarily wither and die in direct correlation.

Before modern science religions ruled the world, and even in the more ignorant parts of the world, primarily Islamic we still see religion in control. But in the rest of the world secular rule is becoming more commonplace, and no such rational government would now revert back to the dark ages of religious control.

Religious beliefs will remain a curiosity for some time but few people, even now, pay them too much attention in their normal daily lives. The few vocal fundamantalists will try to have you believe otherwise.

 

QUEST EONS

There is archaeological evidence to suggest that the sun god motif endured at least as long as the judeo-christian gods (Yawheh, Elohim, God, El, Jesus, Holy Ghost, etc.) have so far. There is evidence of a sun-god in Egypt going as far back as 3000 BCE with Atum, later to be called Re. The pre-dynastic Egyptians worshipped animal deities and, later, goddess figures were found in Egypt and other places where neolithic peoples were developing agriculture (around 7000 BCE).

The goddess figure seems to have endured the longest and appears consistent in its image as a voluptous, (perhaps well-fed) female figure. One found in Catalhouyouk in Turkey is of a rather large woman seated with her hands on the heads of two large feline animals. This motif appears in many cultures of the period in many geographic locations.

Christianity is one of the youngest religions that are in existance today, and Hinduism is probably the oldest of all surviving religions.

I think the endurance of christianity today is attributable to: 1) the evolution of religious thought in humanity (see Robert Bellah, 1964) through stages of development that have allowed a lot of trial and error to determine what works to create and maintain an organizational heirarchy; and 2) the advent of writing, which allowed the early jewish authors and later christian authors of christian texts to establish doctrine and "write out" past religious thoughts and beliefs. The Canaanite pantheon of gods was effectively adopted where possible and excluded from doctrine where not during the invention of Judaism.

Maintaining the hierarchy is of great importance to maintaining power and wealth and the exclusion of past religious norms, such as prophets and shamanism is controlled by the current priests and officials as christianity is established and maintained. Prophets are a concept of the past (there haven't been any universally accepted prophets in Christianity for over 2k years) and shamans are considered heretics, unholy, works of the devil, heathens, etc.

But there are many things about the Greek religion that survives through christanity (you mentioned this specifically), such as angels. Look at the representations of nikes that are on friezes and statuary and date easily as far back as the 6th century BCE (though I think that the two images I linked date to around the 3rd century).

I, personally, think Christianity will disappear. Its downfall will be its own reluctance to progress with the speed needed to keep up with the rest of society. Already, heated debates rage over same-sex marriage, creationist dogma, and other silly points that the fundamentalists of the cult have chosen to be their last lines of defense. Ironically, it'll be these things that cause the downfall of their cult. That's just my opinion, but one I base on the observerance of other cults in humanity's past and their downfall.

Even Hinduism, the oldest of the world's major religions, is doomed to the same fate as technology and societal advancements progress in countries where it is practiced.

Islam, I think, will survive them all, but only because the countries where it is practiced most seem to stay in conflict, which is effective in obstructing societal progress. Though, I've seen some indications that there is a young generation of atheists growing in Iran, so who knows?

 

People just have to accept each others views. There is reincarnation, karma, heaven, hell and so on... maybe not always in the way people think. Christ never told the western world about reincarnation because he knew they wouldn't understand it. It wasn't important. They understood the truth in a different way. There are many ways to tell the truth. Christ has come to Earth many times already, maybe 3 or 4 times, in different parts of the world and teached the same things in different forms.

It's easy for me to understand that western and eastern path are both a path for the truth, and it's the same God in these religions - the "self". Of course I don't mean a personal self, but our "higher self", that is God. Western way is a way where you have to live with other people and treat them well and learn by them and so on. The eastern way is the opposite, you have to know yourself, be with yourself and be yourself. So which one of these 2 ways should we follow? Both of them.

There will come a person who will prove with his own person that it's the same God behind all religions. I wonder why people don't see it. But later, religious things won't be so important anymore.

When I said that religions come from the human self, I meant that it comes from "God", our higher self.

 

religion begines with vision and myth.
Remember in preliterate, oral based culture inagination and association betennreal things, images was paramount and promodial.
Theology and philosophy follow, as do the patriarchal religions that subVERT the earlier Earth religios imagery. an imagery that becomes mythology which is the fundamental means humans understand experience

Many people SEEM to IMAGINE that science dropped in from outer space. totally unrelated to the previous effects of patriarcahl indoctrination. I think differently.
Therer was a major transition--not usually mentioned about, but Ralph Metzner does so in his essays--for example see his essay/talk which can be read online
'THe Split Between Spirit and Nature in European Consciousness'

Where he shows the transition happening when the emerging science advocates agreed with the chruch to only deal with 'matter' whilst they -the church-would deal with 'spiritual' matters. I.e., ALREADY is a premise IN the split!
Later on science-infuluenced by the likes of Decartes, etc., even dispenses with 'God', and then we get the fascitically oppressive mechnistic-materialistic worldview we are all oppressed with now (except for the ones who do not feel this oppression, or deny it, of course)

Now--this new post-religious worldview you seem to cherish sees you aa a mere biochemical machine. But the Deepeness which is also a huge part of us, and our interelationship will NOT be denied, no matter how much you think it will. fr me the evidence OF this catastrophic denial and oppression, suppression, repression is evident all round.

 

SkinWalker,

You are assuming that the rest of society will keep on progressing. If that assumption holds, I agree with you. Yet, I'm not entirely sure that this will be the case. There are perhaps many factors capable of impeding it: restriction in civil liberties, decreased funding of education, social conflicts. What makes you sure that the society you are living in can sustain progress?

 

I'm not sure about the society that I live in, but human societies will endure and progress -barring some global cataclysm that renders all life extinct that is.

Progress and advancement is inevitable as demonstrated by the historical and archaeological records.

 

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M*W: Xylene gave the best answer to your question that I've heard so far:

"'ll probably start a five-star argument, but here goes. My personal opinion is that what we refer to as God is merely the personification of the forces of Nature. Humans need to find a reason for everything. They need to humanise that which they can't understand or control, like death or the earthly powers of Nature when it's in a rage. So they come up with the idea of an overwhelming presence, a Great Intelligence that controls everything. So when we say a person forsakes God, does God forsake him in return, we're dealing with the idea A) that there is a vast intelligence out there B) It gives a damn about us. Whereas in my belief, Nature just rolls on regardless. If there is such a thing as a spirit world, and survival of consciousness in any form after death, then perhaps your late departed relatives are keeping an eye on you to make sure you don't stub your toes too often. However, whether there is an actual God or Gods 'up there' wherever, I believe they take on the form their believers give them. Given the fact that all bodies die, the inevitability of that fact gives rise to the hope in the existence of a future spirit world where one can just step over into another reality. Given that all houses fall, every religious pantheon will have its day and go down to dust. Given that all empires pass away, the very memory of the ancient Gods, worshipped by mighty kings thousands of years ago, has had to be brought back from obscurity by archaeologists. My point is that whether God abandons you or you depart from him, you still have to deal with the powers of Nature every day, and make your life as comfortable as you can. We'll probably still be having this discussion in 10,000 years time--same problem, just with a different set of Gods.
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M*W: Then I replied to Xylene's post:

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M*W: This is the most ideated and intelligent post I've seen on sciforums. I totally agree with you and have stated many times the same concept. Early humans feared the sun. It was hot. They couldn't look directly at it without being blinded. Strangely, the Greek word for the sun is 'helios,' another word for 'hell.' The sun died and arose. They feared the moon arose and died. The sun as god became the 'Son of God'. The constellations became the 'knights of the roundtable,' and King Arthur was Ursa Major. The bible even speaks of the zodiacal creatures in passages like "the lion (Leo) will lay down with the lamb (Aries)." This may be a conjunction. Books have been published on this subject. The Virgin Mary of course was patterned after Virgo (the virgin), and Aquarius represented John the Baptist.

 

M*W* "'ll probably start a five-star argument, but here goes. My personal opinion is that what we refer to as God is merely the personification of the forces of Nature. Humans need to find a reason for everything. They need to humanise that which they can't understand or control, like death or the earthly powers of Nature when it's in a rage.[/QUOTE]


Based on the fact that we naturally have an innate feeling that there is something greater than "us" do you think that this signals that there must be something behind all of this?

For example, hypothetically, if there was an tribe, in a remote part of the world. A tribe that has never had any contact with any ohter humans on the world anywhere. You can almost guarantee that this tribe will still have made up, and worship some kind of higher being. It's almost as if we are wired to search for "god"?

What are your thoughts?

 

quest eons: what of japan. no sky daddys, just humans revered as gods, hero worship, but not a higher being.

 

ok,
but only if YOU accept atheists pov=no gods!

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prove it!

so now YOU know what Christ knew?

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and you can provide some proof for this I suppose..
btw ..why would he do that?..to confuse people?

how could anyone prove something like this?

maybe b/c there isnt ANY god?..or any son of God/savior!

 

Christianity is the largest, by far, religion in the world and it is poised to became the dominate faith worldwide.

The growth is in the Global South and China.

The emerging Christianity is not the faith found in the West today--it is far more conservative, closer to medieval Catholicism and Luther.

 

I think there's a good chance that belief itself is hard-wired. I think it's likely that humans are predisposed to believe and the personification of nature is a natural response.

I, too, have to agree with Xylene. In fact, we see this sort of personification in prehistoric peoples all over the world. The animal gods of Egypt, Mesopotamia, North American Indians, Aboriginals, Mesoamericans, etc. Animals figure prominently in many prehistoric Eastern religions as well, and we see these represented in the ceramics and figurines found in the archaeological record.

Even today, people search for cause and effect with things they can't figure out. Coincidences and the unknown play heavily on people's beliefs and they imagine magical causes for natural effects or even natural causes for magical effects (toss a virgin into a volcano so the gods won't hurl fire and brimstone at the village; when the fire and brimstone doesn't come, obviously the virgin was an appropriate sacrifice).

So I think we, as a species, are hard-wired to believe and to engage in magical thinking. And I think it is this hard-wiring that is ultimately responsible for the advent of the rise of civilizations. Agriculture has it's roots in the goddess worship and complexity within civilizations has come about largely because the populations believed that there existed those within that were special or somehow better than the rest of the population. Eventually, these elite rose to the heights of gods within the populations and became kings.

 

I think you are wrong on both counts. Christianity might be largest of the world's cults, but not by far. It has only a 33% hold on the world population. Islam and Hinduism are close seconds and aren't far behind.

According to the "Annual Statistical Table on Global Mission" by David B. Barrett & Todd M. Johnson in the International Bulletin of Missionary Research (Jan 1999: pp 24-25), the growth of world religions is as follows:

Christianity: 3.6 times as large in 2000 as it was in 1900

Islam: 6.0 times ...

Non-Religionists: 265 times...

Atheists: 671 times...

Neo-Religionists (Wiccan, etc.): 17 times...


The growth of the world population by 2000 was 3.8 times as large as it was in 1900.

 

Muhlenberg,

As skin says and in addition - 2/3rds of the world are not Christian, but more importantly although the number of Christians are growing in number in absolute terms, the world population is growing faster. This means that as a percentage of world population Christianity is in decline.

We also see the interesting phenomenon that even though statisticians are counting large tracts of population as Christain, actual attendance at Churches around the world is at an all time extreme low. This tends to indicate that although large numbers of people classify themselves as Christian, they actually don't do anything about it or take part in its practices. This I find enormously encouraging.

 

scorpius,

ok,
but only if YOU accept atheists pov=no gods!

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Of course, "I" understand that view perfectly, but there are other's who won't accept atheistic views because they don't understand it. But there's nothing anyone can do about it, except to wait and experience all that has to be experienced...

prove it!

How?

so now YOU know what Christ knew?

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Yes.

and you can provide some proof for this I suppose..
btw ..why would he do that?..to confuse people?

Is it so hard to realize that Krishna and Buddha (for example) are "Christ"? He came to teach. Christ is the self which is within all people.

how could anyone prove something like this?

I don't know, but he will do it. It's predetermined.

maybe b/c there isnt ANY god?..or any son of God/savior!

You can say that there isn't, but you can also say that there is, just if you understand what it means. A time will come when you say nothing.