The Building of the Pyramids

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by ghost7584, Jan 30, 2005.

  1. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

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    The Real Way the Pyramids Were Built!?

    There was a man in the 1920s named Edward Leedskalnin, and he built a small castle made of 3 million pounds of coral rock. Some of the coral stones that he built it with weigh 30 tons. The tools that he had were only simple pulleys and winches and chains. Scientists do not know how he did it. The equipment he had was not strong enough to lift the great stones. He said that he knew the secret of how the Egyptian pyramids were built. He did his own experiments on magnetism and developed his own theories. People spying on him with binoculars swore that they saw the great stones float in the air; they signed sworn affidavits. It seems like he knew some secret of using magnetic force to make the stones weigh less. You can read about him and what he did at http://www.coralcastle.com
    I believe that I know how Mr. Leedskalnin, {the creator of Coral Castle}, and the ancient pyramid builders levitated the great stones. I made a careful study of Edward Leedskalnin's books about his experiments with electricity and magnetism and found a clue to how he used electricity to levitate the heavy coral stones. I tried to reproduce this in my backyard and I made a 15 Lb. cement brick to weigh 13 Lbs.. I did this twice; I only tried it twice. Essentially, Leedskalnin found a way to make the stones into a South magnetic monopole, using electricity, and the Earth's magnetic field would then push up on them making them lighter. It only works at night when there is no interference from sunlight. I would like to point out to you that many small ceramic jars containing metal were found near the pyramids and these jars would become electric batteries if a corrosive liquid, such as vinegar or other acids, were put into them. Eric Von Daniken believes that these had to be used as electric batteries. They coud be connected together in series to produce either very large voltage or very large amperage, depending on how you connect them. I believe the pyramid builders were using electricity to levitate the stones just like Leedskalnin did.
    Edward Leedskalnin had a totally different way of looking at electricity which he derived by doing his own careful experiments with magnets and electricity. I have a Bachelor of Science degree in physics, and I am inclined to believe that his way of looking at electricity is more accurate than accepted scientific theories. I will summarize it for you: He published three books on his magnetic theory:- Magnetic Current, Magnetic Base and Cosmic Force. Scientists and others have read these books since the 1920s and no one understood them. If you want to buy these books and read about him and what he did, visit this website: http://www.coralcastle.com You can buy these books for about $11.20.
    I'll summarize what he found out by experimenting with magnets. Just like physics considers an electron or proton to be the smallest unit of electric charge, there is a smallest unit of magnetism which he calls north and south pole individual magnets. They are free to flow in metals, in the air and in other things. The iron shavings around a bar magnet trace their path. From the North end of a magnet, there are many north pole magnets flowing out and going around the outside of the magnet and coming into the south pole of the magnet and then running in the metal and returning to the North pole. From the South pole of the magnet, there are many south pole magnets flowing out and going around the outside of the magnet and going into the North pole and flowing through the metal and returing to the South pole. Some flow straight out from the poles and don't return, but are replaced by others from the air.
    Experimenting with small magnets hung over a wire carring a current he concludes this: Electricity is really north pole magnets flowing out from the + terminal of a battery and flowing through the wire with a right hand twist and there is an opposite flow of south pole magnets coming out of the - terminal of a battery and flowing in the wire with a right hand twist. Modern electronics developed with the theoretical notion of a positive current flowing through a wire, but this is only a way of thinking about electricity to describe and quantify its effects. There is no real positive current flowing through the wire, because protons will not flow through a wire like electricity. Free electrons in the wire only have a slow drift speed, so negative charge cannot flow through a wire like electricity either. This idea of opposing north and south pole magnetic units flowing through a wire might be what is really happening in an electric current. He experimentally shows that this can explain the magnetic effects that electricity produces by its actions on nearby magnets. Too many of these magnetic units being made to flow through a place that has high resistance produces heat, so it can also explain the heat effects of electricity.
    I just rubbed a plastic comb on a spread to get an electrostatic charge and I picked up two pieces of small paper, one hanging from the other. I put a magnet near the bottom piece and it was attracted to the magnet like it was really a magnetic force and not an electrostatic force like physics tries to say. Maybe electrical forces could better be explained by small units of north and south pole magnets and not electric charge.
    Leedskalnin took two soft iron welding rods and connected one to the positive terminal of a battery and the other to the negative terminal of the battery. He touched them together and held them together till they got hot. He sepearated them from each other while still connected to the battery and investigated them with magnets. The iron connected to the negative terminal was a completely south monopole magnet, and the iron connected to the positive terminal was a completely north monopole magnet. This experiment helped him to develope his theory on electric current.


    In his writings he does make some statements about other things like gravity and moon orbit and tries to explain this by magnetic force. These statements go beyond his experiments and seem to be just false opinions. He only had a 4th grade education, but he studied what science said about electrons and current, and he thought science was wrong about it because his own experiments showed something else.
    Mineral, Vegetable and Animal Life, Copyright October 1945 By Edward Leedskalnin Quote:
    "The North pole magnets come out of the battery's positive terminal and South pole magnets come out of car battery's negative terminal. To be sure it is so, you get two pieces of soft steel welding rod four inches long, put them in clips and connect them with the car battery. Put those two loose rod ends together until the rod gets hot. Now test each of those rod ends you were putting together with a small needle-like horizontally hanging magnet. Then you will see the one which is connected with positive terminal is North pole magnet, and the one which is connected with negative terminal is South pole magnet (Like poles repulses, and unlike poles attract). You can change the rod peices, but every time the one is connected with positive terminal will be North pole magnet, and the one connected with negative terminal will be South pole magnet". Therefore, to change a large stone into a South Pole magnet, it would need to be connected to the negative terminal.
    Leedskalnin believed that electostatic force was really a magnetic force. He would describe an electrostatically charged piece of rubber this way: IN rubber the north and south pole magnetic units are not flowing like they are in a bar iron magnet, (he said the magnetic units flowing in an iron magnet are excess magnetic units that were added to the metal when it was magnetized) but in rubber they are stationary and they are the north and south pole magnetic forces that hold the rubber molecules together. This causes many small north and south magnetic
    poles on the same side of the rubber, and this is what causes the electrostatic charge. He proves this to be a magnetic force by attracting iron filings to an electrostatically charged rubber, and bringing a metal bar magnet near. When the bar magnet's poles are reversed by turning it to the other end, some of the iron filings jump off of the rubber. He believed the first approach of the bar magnet with its stronger field, reversed the magnetic fields of some of the
    iron filings and when the magnet was turned around, the magnetic fields repelled each other. He believed it was magnetic and not electrostatic. He also detected South pole magnetic units flowing upward and North
    pole magnetic units flowing downward in the northern hemisphere, by hanging a long magnet in the middle and the south pole end would always hang up. To make it level, the south pole end needed to be longer.
    In his writings he does make some statements about other things like gravity and moon orbit and tries to explain this by magnetic force. These statements go beyond his experiments and seem to be just false opinions.
    Find a scientist or engineer that is willing to experiment on this and try to levitate huge stones. I believe that I have given you enough clues in this writing to show you how it was done.
    I once read a quote from an ancient text about the building of the pyramids, it went something like this.
    True it was that the priests of On levitated the great stones and they flew through the air the distance of a bowshot.
    I read this quote in the writings of Desmond Leslie, a researcher of ancient texts.

    Electricity is described in science by its effects, heat, magnetic and chemical effects. There are theories in science to try to explain what electricity is made of, but these theories are lacking. Electric circuity and the mathematics of it, uses an innovation assuming a positive charge is moving through the wire. But this is only to make the arithmatic come out right. Protons don't flow in wire. The electrons only drift with a slow drift speed which is much slower than electricity, so that can't explain it either.
    Ever since Ben Franklin discovered electricity, modern science has never described what it is made of. All of our circuitry theory is based on the idea that electricity is electrical impulses flowing in a wire, and yet protons do not flow through wire and electrons drift so slowly in a wire (at the speed of heat conduction) that electricity cannot be made of either positive or negative charge flowing in a wire. Leedskalnin's experiments with magnets show what electricity is really made of, North and South magnetic units flowing in a wire. All of modern science developed circuitry, and motors and computers based on the effects that electricity produced and yet science never did adequately describe what electricity is really made of. Because Leedskalnin found out what electricity is really made of, he could see that he could do something else with it. He levitated very heavy stones weighing many tons with it.
    [J J Thompson invented the electron to try to explain what was coming off of a cathode in a cathode ray tube. Existing theory on magnetism would not allow him to think it was anything magnetic. According to Leedskalnin's experiment, what is coming off of the cathode is south pole magnets and the electron should never have been invented. If Leedskalnin is right, all of electro/magnetic theory can be reduced to just magnetic theory.]

    This should be done at night, with no moonlight. To avoid photo
    Electric effect of knocking the south pole magnets off with light.
    I connected a cement block (15Lbs) to the negative pole of battery
    charger and put it on a scale. The positive pole was connected to a
    metal pole stuck in cement. I soaked the cement ground with water, and
    the cement block with water. Turned on the battery charger. car
    battery charger When I picked up the cement block from the scale,
    turned off battery charger, and then put it back on the scale, it
    weighed 13 lbs. It lost two pounds. I did this twice. Just as the rods
    connected to leadskalnins battery became north and south monopoles
    when he broke the connection between them, I believe that when I
    picked the block up off the scale, it became a magnetic south
    monopole. I had soaked the ground with water so the scale was
    effectively the connecting point between the plus and minus poles of
    the battery; picking it up broke the connection. Being a South
    magnetic monopole, the Earth's magnetic field pushed up on it and it
    lost 2 lbs. I never tried this again.

    This upward push of the Earth's magnetic field, on the south magnetic pole end of a compass needle is called the magnetic declination of the Earth's field. In the northern hemisphere the south pole end of a compass needle will tilt upward.
    The pyramids contain stones weighing 200 tons set to within a very small fraction of an inch. Modern engineers will tell you that they could not build the pyramids today even if they used modern machinery.
     
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  3. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    I think Ed Leedskalnin did know the secret of the Egyptians: hardwork, pullies, careful planning. There's nothing to indicate that he used anything extraordinary, supernatural, or beyond the current understanding of physics. His stone blocks have tool marks that match what he was known to have and, in 25 years, he could have moved about a ton a day on average and built the "castle."

    Which scientists have said this?

    Why not?

    Where are these on record at? Besides, it was dark and he worked by lantern... people don't need much to perpetuate urban myths.

    Later in this same post you state that you only did it once. Which is it? Perhaps you won't mind being more specific in your methodology as well, that way others can duplicate what you claim to have done. The description later in your post are a bit lacking: what type of scale did you use? What were the specific voltages you were getting from the car battery charger? etc., etc.

    I assure you, it is improbable that either you or Leedskalnin created a magnetic monopole of south or even north vector. Monopoles do not exist in nature nor do equations bear out their possibility. But if you did, please, by all means, post the equations here. Hell, write them on a piece of paper and scan them as an image then post them, since I don't think Porfiry has a hack like LaTex installed for equation graphics. But what possible interaction could photons of sunlight have with a magnetic monopole (which does not exist)?

    Quite an ignorant statement, if you don't mind me saying. These small ceramic jars had a couple of uses that were posssible: as a way for electroplating metals such as gold or elektrum; and for ritualistic use in some "magical" or sorcerer who used a weak acid in the vessel and attached it to metal statue touched by believers who would then feel a tingle, verifying his "power."

    The former suggestion of electroplating has fallen out of favor, however, since gilding metal by fire using mercury is far more effective. Very little gilding was able to be procurred from models of the "batteries" which only produced a very weak current.

    A hypothesis that I favor is that the small cylinders of clay were vessels for storing scrolls. The vessels were typically 5 inches long and contained a rolled up copper sheet and an iron rod. The ends were capped with asphalt plugs, which would have acted as insulators for any electrical use mentioned above. They would, however, have been very efficient at hermetically sealing papyrus and, since each of the "batteries" found to date have were found open to the environment while in situ, any papyrus inside would have long since deteriorated, leaving a slightly acidic residue.

    They certainly weren't capable of powering any sort of devices, even if we were given to believe the poppycock about ancient astronauts and the wisdom of the ancients and their "wonderous technology" that some ignorant, but popular, authors would have us believe. Experimental archaeology has yielded about 25mW from one of these tested as a possible galvanic cell. A penlight requires about 1100mW.

    Speaking of one of these dumbasses now. Von Däniken is a liar and a plagiarist. Much of his work in Chariots of the Gods? is directly attributable, almost word-for-word, to the works of H.P. Lovecraft. I would be skeptical even of the page numbers in his books, and count them myself if I needed one.

    No they couldn't, and if you believe that, you are very ignorant about electrical theory and the nature of the artifacts themselves. See my paragraph above to educate yourself. In order to use this type of galvanic cell, you would need far larger cells and many more of them... certainly these would have survived a little better in the archaeological record. The fact of the matter is, the types of artifacts you are referring to were found in Mesopotamia in a strata dated to around 200 - 250 CE, not egypt in the period of the pyramids (2613 - 2551 BCE for Seneferu's pyramid).

    Pure pseudosciece baloney, much like your "psychtronic energy." We're still waiting for that explanation, by the way. Its not coming... is it?

    I'm having a real hard time believing that based on the nonsense you would have us believe. You mean, you've never studied the problems associated with magnetic monopoles? Hell, I'm an anthropology/archaeology major, and I picked that one up in a chem class (but then, after retiring from the military then going to college, I'm a bit more attentive than your average college student, too).

    What Uni did you attend? What was your senior thesis on?

    Its been done.

    Hathaway, Cleveland & Bao (2003) attempted to duplicate Evgeny Podkletnov's experiments as he outlined in his unpublished paper and his published work in 1992 in Physica C and came to the following conclusions:
    1. No weight modification or gravity-like force has been detected to the 0.001% level.
    2. The method of detection of "Josephson junctions" internal to the superconducting disks needs to be clarified because the initial tests performed did not conclusively detect their existence.
    3. The ability to achieve true AC Meissner levitation at 100 kHz was not successful because of the large size and weight of the disks used in the
      experiments. Apparently, the magnetic field intensity of the solenoid assembly proved to be too weak. Therefore, either greater power levels are required (greater than 1 kW), or the coil design needs to be optimized.

    Not only did they review his methodology in setting up their own experiment, they also consulted Podkletnov to design their own.

    It would seem that Podkletnov was in err, considering the inability for his hypothesis to be replicated.

    Reference:

    Hathaway, G.; Cleveland, B.; and Bao, Y. (2003). Gravity modification experiment using a rotating superconducting disk and radio frequency fields. Physica C vol. 385 pp. 488-500
     
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  5. geodesic "The truth shall make ye fret" Registered Senior Member

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  7. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    Ahem, to do those things, the object would then be a battery, so what's so ignorant about saying what he said? Not to mention that using that battery for electroplating and/or shocking people when connected to a metal statue is no better or worse a theory than the other. You say "a couple of uses that were possible" which means it could happen, but we don't know. The same applies to anything that can be thought up for the many uses of what could be done with that item. We don't know what was really done with that item so there's no such thing as selective ignorance as everyone is ignorant about the unknown.

    - N
     
  8. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    "Ignorant" because he was implying that these vessels were used to power a device to lift multi-ton stones. They haven't enough power to light an LED. Which is why the electroplating hypothesis has fallen out of favor and the ritual use of giving believers a "tingle" should as well.

    But to suggest that enough energy could be obtained to power some lift mechanism.... ignorant.
     
  9. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    5,306
    Oh okay, gotcha. I thought ya were just talking about him being ignorant about those items being batteries because some people around here still claim those to be nothing like batteries.

    - N
     
  10. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    10,342
    Having ventured inside two of the three great pyramids at Giza, and the earlier stepped pyramids at Saqqara, I can only wonder why people need to invent such ridiculous stories about their construction. I've visited the quarries at Aswan where the stone blocks were hewn. Seen the toolmarks on those stones, and the unfinished obelisk.

    Inside the pyramids in the shafts leading up to the burial chamber, are cut outs for wooden beams, where block and tackle were inserted, to pull the sarcophagi up the incline.

    It's clear to anyone who has actually ever been there, that pyramid building was a very manual task. The construction of the pyramids was also quite well documented, and we know how long it took to build them.

    I didn't see one single depiction of a stone being levitated, but I saw plenty of pictures of pharoahs who had conquered lands, pillaged riches, and got very wealthy.

    As to the 'coral castle', well, how could this guy have used a 'magnetic monopole' when they don't exist? The description of the method is severely lacking, but the part about doing it at night exposes it for what bunkum it really is.

    Ghost7584, did you purchase your degree? Because I really don't believe you could have studied for it, and hold such pseudoscientific views.
     
  11. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    374
    skinwalker"
    Ignorant" because he was implying that these vessels were used to power a device to lift multi-ton stones. They haven't enough power to light an LED. Which is why the electroplating hypothesis has fallen out of favor and the ritual use of giving believers a "tingle" should as well.

    But to suggest that enough energy could be obtained to power some lift mechanism.... ignorant.

    Apparently you don't know that batteris can be connected plus to plus and minus to minus, I think this produces increased amperage.
    Or... plus to minus and minus to plus... I think this produces increased voltage.
    Power equal volts times amps. In either case, every new battery connected increases the power. According to Van Daniken many, of these primitive batteries were found near the pyramids.
     
  12. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    374
    phlogistician
    As to the 'coral castle', well, how could this guy have used a 'magnetic monopole' when they don't exist? The description of the method is severely lacking, but the part about doing it at night exposes it for what bunkum it really is.

    According to modern science's view of mangetism and electricity they can't exist. Leedskalnin has a very simple experiment to prove that they do. (It also proves the model of magnetism and electricity that science is using right now to be flawed.)

    Mineral, Vegetable and Animal Life, Copyright October 1945 By Edward Leedskalnin Quote:
    "The North pole magnets come out of the battery's positive terminal and South pole magnets come out of car battery's negative terminal. To be sure it is so, you get two pieces of soft steel welding rod four inches long, put them in clips and connect them with the car battery. Put those two loose rod ends together until the rod gets hot. Now test each of those rod ends you were putting together with a small needle-like horizontally hanging magnet. Then you will see the one which is connected with positive terminal is North pole magnet, and the one which is connected with negative terminal is South pole magnet (Like poles repulses, and unlike poles attract). You can change the rod peices, but every time the one is connected with positive terminal will be North pole magnet, and the one connected with negative terminal will be South pole magnet".

    Experiment has the final say. If that experiment up there is really true, it could force a reevalution of what elictricity is, and electro/magnetic theory could be reduced to just magnetic theory. The electron would really be a south pole magnetic unit; a unit of magnetism and not electricity.
    The electron was invented to explain something coming off a cathode in a cathode ray tube. Because of the model that science uses to explain magnetism it didn't recognize that individual magnetic units exist. So they invented the electron. That experiment up there, if it is true, what is coming off the cathode is south pole magnetic units, and the electron should never have been invented.
    J J Thompson made a mistake.
    Leedskalnin's books are full of detailed experiments. They agree with what I was taught in physics, except that he explains them in terms of north and south pole magnetic units and not in terms of positive and negative charge.
     
  13. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    In that case, considering the ammount of batteries needed (probably would cover whole Sahara), wouldn't it have been a lot easier to just get a few hundred of slaves to work on the stone block?
    You don't use lazer surgery tools to cut your salad.
    You mean - places where the final phase of burial rituals was preformed?
     
  14. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    5,874
    von Däniken was full of crap. He completely fabricated some of the artifactual evidence that he claimed depicted UFO's and, when called on it by PBS's Nova, he stated that the deception was necessary because some people would only believe if they saw proof.

    The so-called "batteries," which were demonstrated by experimental archaeology to definately not be batteries, were not found in Egypt at all. Their provenience was closer to Baghdad, hence their misapplied moniker, the "Baghdad Batteries."

    The vessels themselves, if attempted to use as a battery by filling with a weak acid like vinegar, produced only weak currents: about .4 to .5 volts and about 50 miliwatts. Being that you have a "degree" in physics, surely you realize that, in order to light a single 1-watt incandescent bulb, it would require about 40 of these vessels, wired in series.

    But what you aren't considering is the iron in the vessels! During the peak of pyramid building, the only metal available to the Egyptians was copper. Iron hadn't yet been discovered. This, plus the provenience and context of the strata that the vessels were found in suggest a date not older than 250 CE and as young as 1200 CE.

    For someone who claims to have a degree in physics, you sure seem ignorant about some really basic stuff.
     
  15. phlogistician Banned Banned

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  16. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    keeping in mind that his is the pseudo science forum.

    Using the threads hypothesis possibly the jar batteries were for removing electrical charge from the stones and not for puting into the stones.

    If we assume that the blocks of stone have an electrical charge that is balanced with their environment and this balance is changed by removing energy from the stones, could it be possible that the stones would bouyant or lighter and seek a higher altitude so as to balance the background energies.....

    I have often held the loose belief that to defy gravity something has to be removed and not put in so to speak.......

    The batteries could have been for accumulating the energy from the stones ths making them bouyant in the immediate ambience.
    Again keeping in mind this is the pseudo science forum.....

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  17. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Coral rock is heavy, but not as heavy as an equal volume of water. All you have to do is waterproof the rock with a plastic sheet, or clog the pores with some material, and float them in place underwater. Then, drain your artificial lake, and there you are!
     
  18. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    5,874
    Spidergoat, I'm afraid that wouldn't work for this rock. The coral rock in question is oolitic limestone. A bit denser than water. It would sink.

    There are those of us who view the Pseudoscience subforum of a Science forum as a place to expose pseudoscience for the frauds that it is and the problems it presents to society.
     
  19. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
    There are pictures on that site of him hoisting stones with a tripod.
     
  20. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    5,874
    There's no reason why he couldn't have moved about a ton per day given the materials that he had: an old truck-bed chasis, block & tackles, pulleys, chains, A-Frames, tripods, etc.

    A ton/day would have been sufficient to built the site in the 20-25 years it took him.

    Now, if he had constructed the site in under a week....!
     
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Fair enough, but in the end all this speculation or whatever you want to call it, is just that, speculation.

    As you well know it is alll very well to speculate on things like levitating large blocks of stone and then declaring the science of such as truth but the real truth is that if the threads science was founded as valid we would all be driving cars that float throught the air by now.

    If the threads Hypothesis was correct this would be the case would it not?

    Obviously it isn't so, so one can safely assume that the hypothesis is ultimately flawed given that the experiments described happened so long ago.

    So in reality the only real test is in the pudding so to speak. And as yet I see no pudding.

    However I believe there is some value in these speculations if kept in perspective.
     
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    for instance don't they levitate superconductors by hitting them with some liquid nitrogen?
    What science is actually happening to cause the object to float?
    Could it be that by removing energy from an object by slowing it's atomic rates causes it to defy gravity in some way?

    Could the same thing be achieved by reducing it's electrical charge significantly?
     
  23. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    5,874
    I think anti-gravity has some serious possibilities. But I have a hard time believing that a guy who says he has a physics degree (four-year) has "discovered" it in his backyard with a bathroom scale and a car battery.
     

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