Mormon Teachings

[water]

Nah, it's much simpler than that. And crueler.

(We're hijacking this hread, by the way.)

[superluminal]

(We're hijacking this hread, by the way.)

Nah. It was a rambling mess a while back.

So, what happened?

[Medicine*Woman]

water: Medicine Woman, are you possessed by the devil or what?!
You were nice to me, did you just notice that?!
************
M*W: No to both. I was communicating with the beautiful woman inside of you who is desperately scratching and clawing trying to get out!

[water]

water: Medicine Woman, are you possessed by the devil or what?!
You were nice to me, did you just notice that?!
************
M*W: No to both. I was communicating with the beautiful woman inside of you who is desperately scratching and clawing trying to get out!

I don't mean to be rude. But how do you know there is a "beautiful woman inside of [me] who is desperately scratching and clawing trying to get out"?
Maybe you are confusing me for someone else.

[Silas]

*sigh*

Low self esteem! Been there! Done that! Still am!

[sop to topic]I've no doubt this has been mentioned somewhere on this thread of 33 pages, but Mormonism was comprehensively debunked in 22 minutes of an episode of South Park. And then at the end, the Mormon kid said, "I don't care if it's nonsense! I have a loving family and a happy life, and it's all thanks to the Book of Mormon. You've got a lot of growing up to do, Stan. Suck my balls." Honours even, I think.

[Marlin]

Jenyar, once again we will just have to agree to disagree on the matter of Priesthood authority. Yes, I admit that you can dance circles around me when it comes to quoting Bible verses, even when those verses don't support what you are saying. But I have my testimony of Jesus, and I have my testimony of the truthfulness of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as restored to the earth by Joseph Smith, and that is enough for me. The testimony God has given me is sure, a firm foundation upon which to build.

Once again I invite you to ask the Lord for such a testimony. If it is wisdom in Him that you should receive one, and you ask with pure faith in Christ, nothing doubting that He will answer you, I believe that He will tell you in your heart that Mormonisim is true. Read and pray about the Book of Mormon. That's about all I can say that will help you in this matter. The very fact that you are giving it this much attention testifies that Mormonism threatens the very foundation of your faith. Otherwise, you would just shrug it off and laugh at me.

Find out for yourself through personal revelation whether Mormonism is true. That is the only valid testimony, in the end, that matters.

[Medicine*Woman]

water: I don't mean to be rude. But how do you know there is a "beautiful woman inside of [me] who is desperately scratching and clawing trying to get out"? Maybe you are confusing me for someone else.
*************
M*W: One does not need to know another to understand the efficacy of the inner person. You've said many times that you are ugly. If YOU believe you are ugly, then that inner person must be beautiful and logically trying to come out. I'm sure you've seen people who are beautiful on the outside but have no substance within. And, really, what is "ugly?" How would you define "ugly?" When I think of what "ugly" is, I see someone who has an evil heart. It doesn't matter what their physical features are. We all look alike pretty much. I'm just guessing here, but perhaps you think of yourself as being ugly because you were mistreated as a child or treated "ugly" then. I was, too, but I rebelled. You think other people think you're ugly, because that is what you think about yourself. If you start telling yourself you are beautiful, that inner person who is trapped inside will eventually come out, and others will see you as beautiful, too.

I know this may seem like a 180, but I am speaking to you woman-to-woman and not based on either of our philosophies or religious preferences. First, I believe all women should protect and defend each other. Everything else we delve into comes after that. The world would be a better place if women realized how beautiful we really are!

You've also said several times that "God made you ugly," or something like that. Well, now's the time to quit waiting on God and allow yourself to be beautiful. If it were truly up to a God, we'd all be grotesque. Beauty is yours if you will just let it be. Richard Bach said, "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true." You have been given the power to become beautiful. Allow it to happen.

[water]

Medicine Woman,


I'm sorry, but this is a lot of nice words, and that alone.
Reality isn't like that.

[WildBlueYonder]

ONCE AGAIN WE WILL JUST HAVE TO AGREE TO DISAGREE ON THE MATTER OF PRIESTHOOD AUTHORITY.

What, are you catholic? There is no priesthood authority, re-read the Bible, it doesn’t have the Apostles establishing a hierarchy, Jesus never laid the foundation for a band of elders; Jesus is our only High Priest, our only sacrifice, our only Savior

YES, I ADMIT THAT YOU CAN DANCE CIRCLES AROUND ME WHEN IT COMES TO QUOTING BIBLE VERSES, EVEN WHEN THOSE VERSES DON'T SUPPORT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

I thought you were the expert at putting a false spin on Bible verses, aren’t you the one “calling the kettle black”?

BUT I HAVE MY TESTIMONY OF JESUS, AND I HAVE MY TESTIMONY OF THE TRUTHFULNESS OF THE RESTORED GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST AS RESTORED TO THE EARTH BY JOSEPH SMITH, AND THAT IS ENOUGH FOR ME. THE TESTIMONY GOD HAS GIVEN ME IS SURE, A FIRM FOUNDATION UPON WHICH TO BUILD.

restored? you mean stirred, shaken, twisted & spun? You believe in Mr. Smith, the money-digger? the one who always looked for treasures, that “mysteriously” always just slipped away, protected by “guardians” dead Indians, evil spells? You mean you believe in that Joseph?

ONCE AGAIN I INVITE YOU TO ASK THE LORD FOR SUCH A TESTIMONY. IF IT IS WISDOM IN HIM THAT YOU SHOULD RECEIVE ONE, AND YOU ASK WITH PURE FAITH IN CHRIST, NOTHING DOUBTING THAT HE WILL ANSWER YOU, I BELIEVE THAT HE WILL TELL YOU IN YOUR HEART THAT MORMONISIM IS TRUE.

How can praying about a false thing, make it true? The BoM has such false histories of the Native Peoples, that anyone who believes it, belongs in that old song, “don’t know much about history, don’t know much about the French I took, …”

READ AND PRAY ABOUT THE BOOK OF MORMON. THAT'S ABOUT ALL I CAN SAY THAT WILL HELP YOU IN THIS MATTER.

Why read the BoM? You’d read a better sci-fi novel by getting a Start Trek book

THE VERY FACT THAT YOU ARE GIVING IT THIS MUCH ATTENTION TESTIFIES THAT MORMONISM THREATENS THE VERY FOUNDATION OF YOUR FAITH.

Really? If Mormonism threatens anyone’s foundation, it was weak to begin with, who would believe such hooey; fake history, fake prophets, fake ordinances, fake church. Maybe the reason you keep on coming back, is because it burns you that all your hooey is being debunked, daily, what’s a god-in-training to do? Why, keep at it, of course!

OTHERWISE, YOU WOULD JUST SHRUG IT OFF AND LAUGH AT ME.

why? And leave people at your mercy, unprotected by truth, thinking that your religion’s twisted history & falsehood might actually be true, no way. The airwaves & cyberspace can not be abandoned to the kingdom of the cults, of which LDS is a prime example.

FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF THROUGH PERSONAL REVELATION WHETHER MORMONISM IS TRUE.

a person can be lead astray, by anything, including a weak little book called the BoM, why it just feels “right” is not enough, the Bible is the only source of truth that can last, uncorrupted by man, it is our safety net, it catches the fish that God intended, namely ‘us’

THAT IS THE ONLY VALID TESTIMONY, IN THE END, THAT MATTERS.

Not quite, the only valid testimony is from Jesus, & He’s in the Bible, Mr. Smith is not.

[SnakeLord]

All non christians please shush, I'm enjoying watching the religious nuts argue amongst themselves while I munch on popcorn. Thank you.

[WildBlueYonder]

All non christians please shush, I'm enjoying watching the religious nuts argue amongst themselves while I munch on popcorn. Thank you. :-)

I hope that all this stuff sinks in & gives you a chance to be saved

Peace

[SnakeLord]

Saved from what?

[The Goose]

What, are you catholic? There is no priesthood authority, re-read the Bible, it doesn?t have the Apostles establishing a hierarchy, Jesus never laid the foundation for a band of elders; Jesus is our only High Priest, our only sacrifice, our only Savior

Is that true? Perhaps you should re-read the Bible, if that's what you think, starting with these verses
Matt 16:19
Mark 3:14; 11:28
Luke 9:1; 10:1
John 15:16
Acts 6:6; 10:42
Gal 1:1
Titus 1:5
Heb 5:4
All of these verses point to the fact that you need certain authority, from God, to preform certain things.

restored? you mean stirred, shaken, twisted & spun? You believe in Mr. Smith, the money-digger? the one who always looked for treasures, that ?mysteriously? always just slipped away, protected by ?guardians? dead Indians, evil spells? You mean you believe in that Joseph?

If you can actually show any of us here where Joseph smith spun twisted or did anything to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, be my guest. Oh, wait. You won't read the Book of Mormon, so it will all be second hand lies about him that you for some reason are more inclined to beleive than your own personal experiences, which you refuse to have.

How can praying about a false thing, make it true? The BoM has such false histories of the Native Peoples, that anyone who believes it, belongs in that old song, ?don?t know much about history, don?t know much about the French I took, ??

Praying about a false thing will tell you it is false, not make it true. Praying about the BoM won't make a false thing true; it will tell you that a true thing is true. And how do you know how false it is if you have never read it? By reading people's slander?

Why read the BoM? You?d read a better sci-fi novel by getting a Start Trek book

So you can actually know if what you are saying has any basis in fact, or if you have just been going along taking skeptics words at face value (which they no doubt just heard from some other skeptic, who heard it from someone else, whilst nobody has even read the BoM)

why? And leave people at your mercy, unprotected by truth, thinking that your religion?s twisted history & falsehood might actually be true, no way. The airwaves & cyberspace can not be abandoned to the kingdom of the cults, of which LDS is a prime example.

How is it any more of a "cult" than any other religioun? It doesn't force people to attend its church, it doesn't terrorize people into accepting them, it doesn't take all their money away and use it to buy drugs, meanwhile leaving its members poor and forced to eat rice, which, coincidentally, makes the brain much more suceptable to the brainwashing it is doing.

a person can be lead astray, by anything, including a weak little book called the BoM, why it just feels ?right? is not enough, the Bible is the only source of truth that can last, uncorrupted by man, it is our safety net, it catches the fish that God intended, namely ?us?

How could you say that the Bible is the only source of truth. Even the bible is riddled with references to lost scripture, which was appearantly important enough to be mentioned.

Not quite, the only valid testimony is from Jesus, & He?s in the Bible, Mr. Smith is not.

Mr. Smith is not in BoM either, but Jesus is. If you can find one point in which the BoM contridicts the Bible, do it. The BoM is Jesus' testimony, the same as is in the bible, just given to different people

[WildBlueYonder]

Is that true? Perhaps you should re-read the Bible, if that's what you think, starting with these verses
Matt 16:19
Mark 3:14; 11:28
Luke 9:1; 10:1
John 15:16
Acts 6:6; 10:42
Gal 1:1
Titus 1:5
Heb 5:4
All of these verses point to the fact that you need certain authority, from God, to preform certain things.

If we’re going to proof-text each other, will I’ll start here:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gal/Gal001.html#top

Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Hbr/Hbr013.html

Hbr 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

If you can actually show any of us here where Joseph smith spun twisted or did anything to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, be my guest. Oh, wait. You won't read the Book of Mormon, so it will all be second hand lies about him that you for some reason are more inclined to beleive than your own personal experiences, which you refuse to have.

And I have started to read the BoM several times, its just that reading a boring novel just won’t cut it when trying to force yourself through what Mark Twain said, “was chloroform in print”

The BoM is a false history, if it were true, you would have major museum’s dedicated to BoM artifacts, relics, ruins & dioramas, why don’t we? Where are they, can you explain?

Not having them, speaks volumes about its truthfulness, can you explain?

[Marlin]

Personally, I am of the opinion that if Jesus Christ Himself appeared on WildBlueYonder's doorstep and told him the Book of Mormon is true, WBY would still disbelieve Him.

I guess what it comes down to is, do you accept a testimony from God, or is your testimony from men? WBY seems to think that the opinions of men are of greater evidence than the personal revelations of God.

[The Goose]

If we?re going to proof-text each other, will I?ll start here:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gal/Gal001.html#top

Okay. the galatians text says that if you preach any other gospel than the one you have received. The BoM doesn't teach a different Gospel, (but you have never read it, so I guess you wouldn't know that.)

As for the quote from Hebrews, you will find, if you read the BoM, that Jesus most certainly is the same in the BoM as in the Bible.

And I have started to read the BoM several times, its just that reading a boring novel just won?t cut it when trying to force yourself through what Mark Twain said, ?was chloroform in print?

So, have you never read the Bible, either? If excitement is the only thing you look for when you are reading scripture, I find it hard to beleive you have actually read the Bible.

The BoM is a false history, if it were true, you would have major museum?s dedicated to BoM artifacts, relics, ruins & dioramas, why don?t we? Where are they, can you explain?

The funny thing about you having said that is that museums have worked fairly extensively to disprove the BoM's history, and they haven't been able to. What does that tell you? And we have plenty of stuff from the people talked about in the BoM. There are museums dedicated to such people as the Inca, and, if their religion wasn't too boring for you to read, you would have found many things in their religion that points toward them having been jews, having seen Jesus, and then having their religion twisted by satan's temptations, as you can see happens many times to the Jews in the old testament (oh, wait, you probaly haven't read that because it's "boring")

[Medicine*Woman]

water: Medicine Woman,

I'm sorry, but this is a lot of nice words, and that alone.
Reality isn't like that.
*************
M*W: Reality can become everything YOU want it to be. It's got to start somewhere. I can't make you like yourself, but I wanted to create the spark. The rest is up to you. You know I don't mince words. I tell it like it is. But all differences aside, you're a woman living on this planet, and because you're a woman, I believe in your power to become everything you want to be. I didn't just call out nice words to you, I want you to believe in yourself.

[WildBlueYonder]

Personally, I am of the opinion that if Jesus Christ Himself appeared on WildBlueYonder's doorstep and told him the Book of Mormon is true, WBY would still disbelieve Him.

yep, because it would probably be a lying spirit called, "Lesus Kresst" or something like that, a mormon demon

I guess what it comes down to is, do you accept a testimony from God, or is your testimony from men?

God, of course
but the BoM is of man, specifically Joe Smith the money-digger

and Joe Smith is a false prophet, unless you know any of his prophecies that came true?

WBY seems to think that the opinions of men are of greater evidence than the personal revelations of god.

actually, I value & trust my opinion better than yours, so stop claiming to be 'god', your revelations are weak, your claims can't wash a sepulcher white, & whether 1 person or 10 million believe them, makes no diff

the BoM does not stack up with what the Bible says, but with what man says, specifically Joe Smith, B. Young, etc...

[Marlin]

::Marlin wipes the dust off his feet, goes on his way::

[WildBlueYonder]

Okay. the galatians text says that if you preach any other gospel than the one you have received. The BoM doesn't teach a different Gospel, (but you have never read it, so I guess you wouldn't know that.)

actually, I don't need to, plenty of mormons like you have told me & other Christians more than what we need to say, “the LDS is a cult”

like;
are Jesus & satan 'spirit' brothers?
can humans become "gods"?
and have their own planets, to populate?
did God the Father have physical sex with Mary to have Jesus born a human of 'flesh & bones'?
was there a Semitic culture here in the Western Hemisphere?


you answer any of those truthfully as the LDS core beliefs & yes, you would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that LDS is not Christian, but a cult

As for the quote from Hebrews, you will find, if you read the BoM, that Jesus most certainly is the same in the BoM as in the Bible.

can't be, the "real" Jesus would never have anything to do with falsehood

So, have you never read the Bible, either? If excitement is the only thing you look for when you are reading scripture, I find it hard to believe you have actually read the Bible.

oh, trying to 'psych' me out are we? accusing me, trying to see if I actually read the Bible are we, or just trying to taunt me?

The funny thing about you having said that is that museums have worked fairly extensively to disprove the BoM's history, and they haven't been able to. What does that tell you?

that you're lying, please post the links to those supposed projects of debunking? the only thing you might find, is the Smithsonian letter, needed after many mormon missionaries started lying about archeologists at the SI using the BoM as a guide. a patent lie

And we have plenty of stuff from the people talked about in the BoM. There are museums dedicated to such people as the Inca, and, if their religion wasn't too boring for you to read, you would have found many things in their religion that points toward them having been jews, having seen Jesus, and then having their religion twisted by satan's temptations, as you can see happens many times to the Jews in the old testament (oh, wait, you probaly haven't read that because it's "boring")

its amazing how weak your knowledge is of ancient people, you must only read LDS sources, the only people that would believe that lie are deluded un-historical people, worthy of last place in any history tests

Incas are native peoples, unknown by the BoM, never mentioned, very unjewish,

did they keep 'kosher', circumcise their males? what BoM customs did they follow? Jewish? you say, who was the author? Jeff Lindsey? stop trying to steal the Incas' history for the BoM, it don't belong to LDS or fake BoM peoples

did they use any "Egyptian" or Hebrew words to name all these white people that came after 1492?

BTW, I like history, I’ve even read tons of stuff, it doesn’t have to be “fun”, just truthful