03-07-05, 09:21 AM #121
The caliphs were killed by other muslims though.
03-07-05, 09:35 AM #122
no they werent Umar was killed by a non-muslim....Uthman was killed by rebels(debateable as to whether they were muslims) and Ali was killed by people who had broken away from the Umnah(muslim community)
03-07-05, 09:50 AM #123
Originally Posted by surendererand Ali was killed by people who had broken away from the Umnah(muslim community)
03-07-05, 01:16 PM #124
Umar's killers didnt think they were Muslim(to the best of my knowledge) and as far as Ali's killers supporting Muawiyah......well like I said that was the end of the "Rightly Guided Caliphs"
03-07-05, 04:48 PM #125
..."and he can take it and stop you from thinking and can force you to believe in him and erase all data programmed in your mind that give you ability to think there is another god"...
..."he could program your brain to know him only and never think in another god could program you to do all right things and never make mistakes" ...
but, "ALLAH doesnt force people to believe in him"?
too contradictory for me, even the bible is not that contradictory.
everything that i hear from islam is so damned jumbled up. if its so true, then why doesnt it make any sense?
i feel that there will be a unified "religion" soon, and it will be born from science. it will be true and easily proven. but it will take a while for most people to get away from their rediculous dogmas and customs. until then, we will just keep fighting about how my god is better than your god.
peace, asalamaleka, shalom, whatever
03-07-05, 07:10 PM #126Originally Posted by surenderer
- What exact land was under their influence?
- Did they eliminate Slavery during their time in power?
- Also, if a person living under the government of "Rightly Guided Caliphs" doesn’t want to be Muslim and instead want to worship and idolize Satin, would the "Rightly Guided Caliphs" have allowed them to do as they will (it is their afterlife, afterall)?
03-08-05, 05:14 AM #127
thank you for your attempts to save my soul, but in all honesty. i would find eternity with a God who considers himself above humans horrible.
how about you come and believe in my God, (s)he gets his/her strength from human belief and prayer, that way God relies on us as much as we rely on God (its alot more fair that way)
or stay with your own religion, we'll find out who was right soon enough :P
03-08-05, 08:50 AM #128
- What exact land was under their influence?
This was an era of expansion during which Muslims conquered the Sasanid (Persian) Empire and took control of the North African and Syrian territories of the Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire
Did they eliminate Slavery during their time in power?
What happened during their reign:
1. In the early Makkan period, it pronounced that slave emancipation was a great deed of piety. The very initial Makkan surahs appealed to the Muslims to liberate as many slaves as they could.
2. The Prophet (sws), unequivocally, directed the Muslims to raise the standard of living of the slaves and bring it equal to their own standard. This, of course, was meant to discourage people from persisting with them.
3. For the atonement of many sins manumission of slaves was divinely ordained.
4. All slave men and women who could support themselves in the society were directed to marry one another, in order to raise their moral and social status.
5. A permanent head in the public treasury was fixed to set free slave men and women.
6. Prostitution, which was largely carried out through slave women, who were mostly forced by their masters to do so, was totally prohibited.
7. The affronting names of `abd and amah by which slave men and women were called, were abrogated so that people should stop regarding them as slaves. In their place, the words fata (boy) and fatat (girl) were introduced.
8. Finally, the law of mukatibat provided very easy access for the slaves to the gateway to freedom. Every slave who was capable of supporting himself was allowed by law to free himself, provided that he either gave a certain monetary amount to his master or carried out certain errands for him. After this, he could live as a free man. A special head in the treasury was fixed for this purpose; also, wealthy people were urged to help the slaves in this regard. The net result of this law was that only handicapped and old slaves were left to be provided for by their masters, which not only went in their own favour but also prevented them from becoming an economic burden on the society
Also, if a person living under the government of "Rightly Guided Caliphs" doesn’t want to be Muslim and instead want to worship and idolize Satin, would the "Rightly Guided Caliphs" have allowed them to do as they will (it is their afterlife, afterall)?
Well 1st of all not everyone living in Arabia were Muslim at that time.....their were plenty of Jews and Christians living there at that time also....(I dont know how Satanists would be treated) but the main difference between Muslims and Non-Muslims was that Muslims pay Zaka'h which is a tax that an Islamic state requires on its Muslim citizens to help the homeless and elderly etc....while Non-Muslims pay 'Dharaaib' which is the same thing (to the best of my knowledge)
03-08-05, 06:56 PM #129Originally Posted by surenderer
You know, Alexander of Macedonia, Julius Caesar, Constantine and Mohamed – yup, all were given visions from God to do a bit-o killing in the name of.
Just a funny coincidence . . . .
Originally Posted by surenderer
Is there any evidence that you know of, of a significant drop in the number of Slaves at the end of the conquest of Persia and the southern Mediterranean?
03-10-05, 10:05 PM #130
06-04-05, 06:08 PM #131
Religious/philosophical arguments aside, my issue with Islam is its inability to cope with modernization/modernerity.
I would also observe hat posts like the one which started this thread are never, in my experience, persuasive.
Finally, I would also add that what most people ---- Muhammed included ---- believe to be divine truth is primarily a function of geography and socialization while growing up. Had he grown up going to catholic school, like I did, he would most likely have grown up with a different belief system.
Nevertheless, the search for divinity and grace is important, so carry on guys.
06-05-05, 04:24 PM #132
The Quran clearly states that a man may have sex with his slaves, including those married before being enslaved.
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
YUSUFALI: Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-
YUSUFALI: Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
06-14-05, 10:09 PM #133
i am so sorry because i can not understand most of what you all typing
my english is bad
i didnt want to make an arguement ...
i really want to guide all people in world to heavens if i can
but i can only tell them where to start
so for those who are angry at me ... i am so sorry
i just tried to help you all .......so forgive me if i did not help you as expected
here is a translation of the meaning of a part of quraan
its translated to english to give you a close meaning but not the exact meaning in arabic
In the name of Allah, The Merciful, The All-merciful
Has there come on Man a while of time when he was not a thing to be remembered?(1)
We created Man from a mingled drop, then trying him, We made him hearing, seeing.(2)
Surely We guided him to the Way, whether he be thankful or unthankful.(3)
Surely We have prepared for the unbelievers chains and fetters and a Blaze.(4)
Surely the virtuous shall drink of a cup tampered with camphor;(5)
at a fountain, where the servants of God shall drink, making it to gush forth in plenty.(6)
They fulfil their vows, and fear a Day whose evil is wide-spread.(7)
And they give food, for the love of Him, to the needy, the orphan and the captive:-(8)
`we feed you only to have God's attention, not desiring from you any recompense, nor thanks.(9)
We fear from our Lord a frowning calamitous day'.(10)
So God guarded them from the evil of that day, and granted them radiancy and gladness;(11)
and recompensed them, for their patience, with garden and silk;(12)
reclining therein on couches, they shall not see sun therein, nor bitter cold;(13)
and near them shall be its shades, and its clusters shall be meekly hanging.(14)
And there shall be passed around them vessels of silver, and goblets of crystal __(15)
crystal of silver that they have measured accurately.(16)
And therein, they shall be given to drink a cup tampered with ginger,(17)
therein a spring, named Salsabil.(18)
And there shall go about them ever-abiding youths; when thou seest them, thou thinkest them scattered pearls.(19)
And when thou seest, thou seest bliss and a great kingdom.(20)
Upon them shall be garments of fine green silk and brocade, and they shall be adorned with bracelets of silver; and their Lord shall give them to drink a pure drink: (21)
`Surely this is your recompense, and your effort is thanked.'(22)
Surely it is We who have sent down the Qur'an on thee;(23)
so be thou patient for the judgement of thy Lord, and do not obey any sinner or unthankful man out of them.(24)
And mention the Name of thy Lord at dawn and in the evening,(25)
and prostrate thyself to Him by night, and extol Him through the long night.(26)
Surely these men love the hasty world and forsake a heavy day before them.(27)
We have created them and strengthened their joints; and when We will, We shall exchange their likes.(28)
Surely this is a Reminder, so whoso will, may take a way to his Lord.(29)
But you do not will, except what God wills; surely God is Knowing, Wise;(30)
He admits to His mercy whom He will; and the wrong-doers for them, He has prepared a painful punishment.(31)
06-19-05, 01:47 AM #134Originally Posted by one_raven
Want to ??
Islam is the cancer of mankind. We will not survive it until we eradicate it from the face of the earth.
06-19-05, 11:11 AM #135Islam is the cancer of mankind. We will not survive it until we eradicate it from the face of the earth.
06-19-05, 11:42 AM #136
06-19-05, 07:32 PM #137WildBlueYonderGuestOriginally Posted by Godless
hey, wait a minute? you're 'godless', let's throw you out, but where?
06-19-05, 07:38 PM #138WildBlueYonderGuestOriginally Posted by OliverJ
06-19-05, 07:56 PM #139
Surely We have prepared for the unbelievers chains and fetters and a Blaze.(4)
You should, muhammad, recognize that statement as a clear threat, one either believes or disbelieves, with nothing less than torture and death to those who do not believe.
That is tyranny and cruelty, and not something to be followed or worshipped.
He admits to His mercy whom He will; and the wrong-doers for them, He has prepared a painful punishment
Can you not see the glaring contradiction of these words? If mercy his, why the need for a painful punishment, why not mercy instead?
06-19-05, 09:08 PM #140Originally Posted by (Q)
Quite funny though.