Cyber War

[Bowser]

Has anyone been working on computer viruses for the war effort? I haven't heard anything regarding this front. How hard would it be to target systems in within countries that harbor terrorist? How would a virus target such a system?

Just a thought...

[Xerxes]

What war?

BTW you know how difficult it would be to program something like that. My cousins a comp genius and he couldnt even do that!

[thecurly1]

Actually its not hard at all. We're dealing with predominately third-world countries, that have computers, but miniscule if any resources to combat a cyber attack. You don't even need a virus really only a good hacker.

A few years ago China shut down most ATMs in Taiwan when the Taiwaneese were getting pro-indepenedent. All you'd have to do is access some section of their infrastructure, communications, water & power systems or financal holdings and accounts. A well planned cyber attack, which will probably be by a free lance American or western hacker could destroy a small country, or man's (cough, cough, hint, hint) fourtune instantaniously.

Odds are someone's working on it. There are plans to block Bin Laden's Swiss Bank accounts. As well as freezing his holdings in the US and abroad.

[Xerxes]

Actually I ment like put a virus into a country and not have it leave the political jurisdictions. Sure, it aint hard to target networks like utilities, but every comp inside of a country? if it could leave that country then it could reak some major havoc.

[thecurly1]

That sounds good to Elbza.

[felix]

Originally posted by thecurly1
There are plans to block Bin Laden's Swiss Bank accounts.

Would Swiss banks let us do that? I thought that was attraction of a Swiss bank account. They're take a neutral stance, and are extremely secure.

[felix]

Originally posted by Elbaz
Actually I ment like put a virus into a country and not have it leave the political jurisdictions. Sure, it aint hard to target networks like utilities, but every comp inside of a country? if it could leave that country then it could reak some major havoc.

Yep, that would be the main danger to that kind of attack. Unless you get it onto an important, isolated system that belongs to them. But then, that kind of hurts the ease of the operation, I guess. Also, when you get a virus, you get the source code with it, so there's danger of giving them new ideas.

[Bowser]

It can be accomplished and contained within a specific region. It could also be used to collect personal information regarding specific users.

[kmguru]

Actually it is impossible to hack into an older generation computer system anymore than you can drive down to Hawaii. Unless the network is connected to the outside world, it is impossible. I design isolated systems that keep credit card information which is imposible to hack because you can not connect to the system from outside period. Even inside you need a physical key to connect.

[thecurly1]

The Swiss mask of neutrality is one of the biggest lies ever propigated by a nation.

One the Swiss have never been completely neutral, they care about less than most other countries, but they do have intrests and are human. Those two factors make them falible, and therefore unable to be neutral in the real world.

Switzerland will allow us to block Bin Laden's accounts and holdings, because we'll be able to bring up that whole issue of them STILL keeping millions of Nazi loot inside the country, away from the Holocaust survivors.

What looks worse, a nation demanding to cut off a known terrorist financal resources, or a nation that has kept the riches of the most horrible government in history?

I don't know where to start...

[kmguru]

Our government's idea is to track the terrorist money and flush it out. There is just this little itty-bitty problem. The Opium and drug trade is all cash. And it does not take that much to bring a contraband into USA.

The key thing is the apparent security will improve our economy. If we remain afraid and our economy drives to the ground, then the terrorists have won.

It is not the WTC destruction itself, but if just 19 people can bring down the no.1 economic super power and send it 50 years back, then we have to rethink the military might and the value. Imagine, Russia self destructed itself trying to compete and bury us - with all its military power.

It is like a virus that can take out millions of people....

[thecurly1]

We have not been set back 50 years, or any other measurable count of time. This isn't a set back, because America still exists. The economy may not be as strong as before, but big deal. This attack wasn't about money, it was about people first and formost.

I hope the economy get's patched up, but more importantly these terrorists must be destroyed. Destruction is the only justice I will be satisfied with.

[kmguru]

To get the economy moving again, go buy some big ticket items.

[VogueState]

Sorry if I'm drifting beyond the topic here, but this
caught my attention...

There is just this little itty-bitty problem. The Opium and drug trade is all cash. And it does not take that much to bring a contraband into USA.

The black market of substances is created artificially by the prohibition of those substances. This has been done to death in every drug policy argument, but it deserves special consideration in this light.

Why call the opium plant a ``contraband'' and thereby allow Osama bin Ladin and the Taliban goons to profit immensely from its trade?

[kmguru]

VogueState:

Welcome to sciforums. I am curious as to how you got here? Through a friend or via a search engine?

The drug trade is a major part of terrorist funding. We have been fighting drug war with billions of dollars for many years. So it is a problem and continue to be a problem. While US may clamp down within its borders, the black market economy is as big as normal channels in most other countries including Italy.

[thecurly1]

The Taliban is funded by the global herion trade. How do you think they have even that little money- taxes?

[VogueState]

I think you guys missed my point. Opium does indeed provide immense profits to the Taliban and Osama; this was acknowledged in my original post.

The reason they (and any other drug dealer) is able to profit so much is prohibition, which calls it ``contraband'' and inflates its price to ridiculous amounts. Take that away, and it's just a plant.

It's obvious that I'm an advocate of ending all drug prohibition, and that's a separate discussion, but on this particular point it is relevant to this one. The black market in substances benefits many shady characters in this world, in Afghanistan and elsewhere. At least consider the advantages to turning it into a white (legitimate) market.

kmguru: Thanks...I ended up on a sciforums post through a Google search, and recognizing the familiar vB interface, scrolled through a few other discussions. Saw that there is some thoughtful discourse going on and decided to join. Hope you don't mind

[wet1]

Welcome to Sciforums, VogueState.

The drug trade is being eyed as a source of revenue for the terrorists. An untraceable one. Steps are being made with this veiwpoint in mind. Whether it will be any more effective than any other phase of the drug war reamins to be seen.

[kmguru]

The side effect of tracking the terrorists drug money is that we can get after the drug dealers too. That is in theory. Honestly, we had a drug czar for years and the government has not made a dent in the drug trade.

Somewhere I posted about the black economy too. Entire southern and eastern Europe has a big underground economy...

[VogueState]

Why do you need to "get" the drug dealers? Why not stop spending billions on outlawing the crap, and simultaneously stop the insanely inflated profits the producers are seeing? As well as, of course, eliminating a huge portion of organized crime.